Talley’s hired Bush International Consulting to review specific allegations in July 2021.
“The imputation that Talley’s disregards safety at its Ashburton sites is false,” Bush told the High Court at Auckland.
“We found no evidence that Talley’s are lying to their customers about worker safety at their Ashburton site.”
He said suggestions about workers at a coldstore operating in unsafe conditions were false.
“While a coldstore can be a difficult place to work, we found that Talley’s made a big effort to keep workers safe.”
Bush said he felt imputations of safety cover-ups at a Talley’s Blenheim plant were also false.
Bush is now the Chief Commissioner of Victoria Police and was the Police Commissioner in New Zealand from 2014 to 2020.
In 2020 he established Bush International Consulting, and the next year Talley’s engaged him as a consultant to investigate the 1 News allegations.
Davey Salmon, KC, is counsel for TVNZ. Photo / Dean Purcell
Bush expertise queried
TVNZ counsel Davey Salmon, KC, began cross-examining Bush this morning.
“Your brief sets out your expertise in policing which I take it involves management expertise and investigative expertise. Is that correct?”
“Yes,” Bush replied.
“There’s no formal qualifications in health and safety.”
“It’s all experience.”
“You’ve never held a role in health and safety.”
Bush said he’d been too senior in an organisation since 2015 to hold such a role.
Salmon asked if police had health and safety experts, and Bush confirmed they did.
“You would defer to those experts on their areas of expertise,” Salmon asked.
“I’m far too experienced to purely defer to other people’s views,” Bush said. “I take expert advice but I triangulate it with my own observations.”
“How much time have you spent working on industrial sites advising on health and safety?” Salmon asked.
“I don’t advise others on health and safety but I do share learnings across organisations,” was the reply.
Bush said he had given advice, including to Oranga Tamariki and a council.
“That wasn’t an answer to my question though, was it Mr Bush?”
The commissioner accepted he was not a machinery expert.
He told the court Talley’s engaged him in July 2021, through Peter Archer, a private detective and former policeman he had known since 1981.
The court heard Archer’s Risk Management Group Limited had conducted investigations and risk mitigation for Talley’s.
That work for Talley’s related to alleged employee theft at its subsidiary Affco’s meatworks but not in health and safety matters, the court heard.
The court heard a Phil Swanson and a Paul Swale were also involved in the investigation.
“Did you look at Mr Swanson’s areas of expertise when retaining him?” Salmon asked.
Bush said he “possibly” scrutinised Swanson’s expertise.
“It sounds like you can’t remember,” Salmon said.
Bush said he had wanted someone with experience around machinery, and retained Swanson prior to commencing the Talley’s visits and investigation.
Salmon continued to ask Bush about what level of expertise the investigators had, how he collated records, and how he communicated with the other investigators.
The court was shown an invoice from Swale to Talley’s for $11,804.75.
Most of that was for an Ashburton safety review priced at $220 an hour for 43 and a half hours, amounting to $9570.
Salmon said that one invoice was the only document related to Swale’s work.
“Can you remember seeing his report?” he asked Bush.
“Vaguely, but I couldn’t say any more.”
Jodi O’Donnell, TVNZ chief executive, with reporter Thomas Mead. Photo / Dean Purcell
Sources not targeted, Bush says
Talley’s wanted a review of health and safety at Ashburton, and also of eight allegations in the TV stories.
First, it wanted to know the “source, nature and substance” of each allegation.
Second, were those allegations credible and in context, or false?
Third, the company wanted to know of any “pattern” to the allegations and how widespread the allegations were.
Fourth, it asked if employees working at the time backed up the allegations.
Fifth, were the allegations justified?
Sixth, it sought to establish if the company was aware of the allegations before the broadcasts, and if so, what steps it took to address the claims.
Seventh, the company asked if any such steps were adequate and, finally, what Talley’s could have done better before or after learning of the allegations.
On the first point, Bush said in no way was the focus to “track down” the person or people who had contacted the TV station.
“Our mission was to speak to staff, more so to understand the nature and substance of each allegation. If a source had come forward, all well and good.”
He understood Archer felt the same way – then he was asked how he could be so sure.
Bush said he and Archer were operating off the same floor at Ashburton, so they were in constant contact during those days.
“If someone had wanted to remain confidential, we would have protected that person’s confidentiality.”
Salmon said Archer conducted several interviews without Bush present.
“He may have kept notes but I don’t have them. I haven’t read them,” Bush said.
“How did you record his comments to you?”
Bush said he used a notebook.
“Did you exchange any emails with Peter Archer in the course of this investigation at all?”
“Possibly but I can’t reference them,” Bush replied.
Bush said he often worked with Archer in the office.
“It sounds like your memory of these events has faded a fair bit in the four years since,” Salmon said.
“That’s why I rely on notes … My email traffic is considerable.”
Emergency stops
The court heard a discussion about emergency stop (e-stop) buttons at Ashburton.
The trial heard TVNZ alleged those buttons were few and far between, meaning workers could not stop a line quickly if an accident happened.
Bush said he and Swanson conducted a full tour of the site with Danie Swanepoel, vegetables general manager for Talley’s.
Salmon asked Bush if he could tell the difference between a control stop and an e-stop.
Bush said he could not now, but probably could at the time.
He said after a discussion with Swanson, he concluded Ashburton had 153 e-stop buttons, far more than the 15 stated in the TVNZ allegation.
“Did you form written conclusions about which of the 153 emergency stop buttons you describe in fact worked and which parts of the plants they worked on? You didn’t, did you?” Salmon asked.
Another allegation was about crush risks at the Ashburton coldstore.
Bush said training and compliance were key to reducing those risks.
Other issues related to training and communication so staff could find e-stops, and whether non-native English speakers were properly informed about risks.
Bush said a pilot multi-language programme commenced in 2019.
Salmon asked if people being inducted might not have been told enough to be informed about the location and function of more than 150 e-stops.
Bush agreed.
Blenheim not initially visited
Salmon said Bush formed opinions about a Talley’s Blenheim site before visiting it.
“So you were comfortable about making safety conclusions [about] the Blenheim site without inspecting the site?”
“I am now, having been there.”
“That’s not what I asked.”
Salmon continued: “So your approach to investigations is generally whether there’s a suggestion of a breach of a law, you are happy that there wasn’t one, because you’ve talked to someone who wasn’t there, and haven’t gone to the site?”
Talley’s counsel Brian Dickey, KC, objected.
Brian Dickey, KC, counsel for Talley’s. Photo / Dean Purcell
But Justice Pheroze Jagose said Bush must answer.
“It’s not an answer to refer back to a paragraph in his brief,” the judge said.
“Do you agree that it is not sound investigative technique to form any views about whether allegations are true without personally investigating … at the relevant site?” Salmon said.
“My investigative preference would be to visit the site,” Bush said.
Salmon’s cross-examination ended at 12.54pm and then Dickey asked Bush questions, including about crate safety.
“My conclusion was the risk was always known but it’s well managed, constant vigilance, strictly monitored, and there were rules around it about only stacking two high,” Bush said.
He was asked about near-misses in the context of workplace health and safety.
Bush said the Ashburton plant provided advice around dealing with near-misses, including when to escalate events for possible remedial action.
On the “source, nature and substance” of allegations, Bush reiterated: “I took it to mean the root or the derivation of each allegation, not who was saying it.”
Bush said he spent no time in trying to pinpoint the human source of the media stories and neither did Archer.
“Our whole mission was to understand whether or not the allegations were founded.”
Dickey also asked: “Is your methodology for report writing to use people other than yourself?”
“Most of this was my own work, or all of it was my own work.”
Bush added that he had no staff of his own at the time.
But he said he would have checked any draft report with other investigators to ensure its accuracy.
The court heard Bush was no longer involved with Bush International Consulting and had been the Commissioner of Police for the State of Victoria for three months.
Forgery claims resurface
After Bush, workplace safety auditor John Greenland was called.
Salmon asked him about allegations Rebekah Vincent, who established the injury management unit in 2017, had asked staff to falsify records.
“It was a surprise,” Greenland said.
But Greenland added he had not seen evidence to verify the claims.
He conducted audits on behalf of ACC.
“The assessment the ACC auditors did only checked a proportion of those,” Greenland told the court.
“But not every file had weekly compensation.”
The trial previously heard Talley’s HR manager Nathan Howes suspected Vincent forged and falsified records, and he investigated.
Howes said Vincent resigned before his investigation could be completed.
The trial continues.
John Weekes is a business journalist covering aviation and courts. He has previously covered consumer affairs, crime, politics and courts.