SARAH FERGUSON, PRESENTER: Dan Tehan, welcome to 7.30. 

DAN TEHAN, SHADOW MINISTER FOR ENERGY AND EMISSIONS REDUCTION:  Pleasure to be with you, Sarah. 

SARAH FERGUSON:  Now Jacinta Price in the last fortnight has called net zero communism, Andrew Hastie said he’ll quit if you don’t drop it, Deputy Leader Ted O’Brien was heckled at a conservative conference because he hasn’t dumping net zero, how much will your net zero policy be swayed by the internal opposition?

DAN TEHAN:  Well, what we want to do as an opposition, as a Coalition, is make sure we do the right thing by Australia and that will be our focus, to focus on our national interest. 

And one of the things which is already uniting us is the fact that the Labor Party approach, the Labor Party approach to net zero, isn’t working and we are seeing that clearly. 

We’ve got emissions flatlining, we’ve seen electricity prices go up by 39 per cent, and sadly, we’re starting to see industries close.

So, we all know and understand that the Labor approach is a failed approach and my challenge, and the challenge of all our colleagues now is to present an alternative to the Australian people and that’s what we are seeking to do.

SARAH FERGUSON:  Are you replacing the rejected Peter Dutton big nuclear reactor policy with a new nuclear policy?

DAN TEHAN:  Well, why I wanted to go to the US and have a look at what is happening there is that what I’ve been hearing, and what I saw while I was over in the US, visiting large national laboratories at Idaho and Oak Ridge, is basically a nuclear renaissance. 

The amount of investment, the amount of technological know-how going into nuclear, and the breakthroughs when it comes to small modular reactors or microreactors has to be seen to be believed. 

And the capital which is flowing into these developments, especially by the large tech companies in the US, is leading to developments which are occurring on a daily basis. 

And I have a very, very strong view that nuclear has to be part of our energy mix here in Australia, if we are going to be serious about reducing emissions, just like it has to be when it comes to the globe. 

We’ve seen Jenny George, the former ACTU president, come out and say that recently. We’ve seen the Premier of South Australia come out and say that recently as well. So this is bipartisan in views as to why we need to have nuclear as part of our mix.

SARAH FERGUSON:  If I could, if I could, Dan Tehan, just bring you back to the question specifically, are you intending to replace the large-scale nuclear reactor policy, which Peter Dutton took to the election which was rejected by the voters, with a new nuclear policy, and what would it look like?

DAN TEHAN:  Obviously I’ve got to discuss that with my colleagues, Sarah, and I have already briefed them. I did that on Monday. I gave them a very detailed briefing, and we will continue to formulate our policy. 

But having seen this nuclear renaissance, and especially the technological advances which are taking place, the use of supercomputing to drive this technology, the use of AI to drive this technology, I have no doubt that my colleagues, like I do, see very much a future for nuclear as part of our energy mix here in Australia. 

And I have no doubt that the US government would love to, like they have with the United Kingdom, enter into some sort of agreement with us, so like we are with nuclear submarines, nuclear-powered submarines, we’ve got extensive co-operation between the US, the UK and Australia, they would like to do the same when it comes to civil nuclear energy. 

And what I can’t understand, if Anthony Albanese and Chris Bowen are serious about reducing emissions, why won’t they consider nuclear technology?

SARAH FERGUSON:  Can I just, let me just jump in there…

DAN TEHAN:  I mean, they’re keeping Australia in the ’60s and ’70s by not doing so.

SARAH FERGUSON:  Let me just jump in there Dan Tehan with a question, incidentally, do you know where Australia sits in the global tables of Australia’s potential for wind and particularly solar power?

DAN TEHAN:  No-one is saying, Sarah, that renewables shouldn’t be part of the mix but what we all know is that you need baseload power as well, and if you can provide it emissions-free, that is the best way to be able to provide that baseload power if you’re serious about addressing climate change, and reducing emissions.

SARAH FERGUSON: Sorry, let me just jump in there on baseload power. I just want to put a quote to you from Australia’s Energy Market Operator recently. This is what he said, “The big shift in our power system is away from the economies of baseload power”, as you just mentioned, “to renewables and firming.” And he said, “There is no going back.” 

Do you accept that expertise of the Australian Energy Market Operator when it comes to baseload power and the transition that’s under way?

DAN TEHAN:  Well, your quote said it all there, Sarah. Renewables and firming and what nuclear can do is provide that firming over time. 

It can replace gas and coal which are providing that firming at the moment and as you will have seen today, the ACCC has been out saying we’re likely to face gas shortages on the eastern seaboard coming up. 

We’ve had premiers right across the board saying we need to get more gas into the system to provide that firming. So my argument is, as a replacement for diesel, when it comes to mine sites, all that firming capacity over time, that’s exactly the role that nuclear can play.

SARAH FERGUSON:  Let me just ask you a question about that, given the political question, essentially, given the magnitude of the election loss that the Coalition just suffered, whatever policy you come up with on nuclear energy, it’s very unlikely to be introduced within the next six years. 

Do you commit to leaving in place the renewables, the backup systems, the batteries, the transmission that will be in place, put in place during that time, and whatever is contracted for, if you’re to win government again?

DAN TEHAN:  Well, what I will commit to is to basically repairing the mess that the Labor Party are making when it comes to this transition. As I said, it’s not working. Emissions are flatlining. 

Electricity …

SARAH FERGUSON:  You say emission are flatlining, I want to put the quote from Mathias Cormann, your former colleague, former finance minister who said on this program just recently that it looks like as the government has said, the department has said, Australia is on track to meet its renewable targets notwithstanding the recent flatlining of the emissions. Just a little factual intersession there.

DAN TEHAN:  That is Mathias’s view and obviously Mathias is doing a very good job over in France at the OECD and what I’m dealing with is the reality here on the ground. And you’ve got people like Ross Garnaut saying that renewable target will not be met. 

We’re hearing that from a range of experts that that 2030 target won’t be met. We’ve got great scepticism right across the board about the newly announced 2035 target. 

As you know, there’s been complete dismay with those glossy brochures which were put out by the government, which had no substance, no proper modelling to them, which seemed just a complete charade. 

And what I want to know, is when it comes to actually addressing emissions reduction, when you’ve got a proven technology, why won’t you even consider it. When it comes to nuclear submarines, the government are happy to have them powered by nuclear…

SARAH FERGUSON:  I’m very sorry to jump in and talk over you there, you made the point about nuclear submarines already. 

But, Dan Tehan, following your trip to the States, more to talk about. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. I appreciate it. 

DAN TEHAN:  Pleasure Sarah.