So then it’s still one club to be cut by the start of the 2028-29 season. Nothing that you’ve seen recently has deterred you from that?
“No, nothing. Or the board, we remain committed to reducing the number of clubs.
“We’re going to be bringing proposals back to the board, looking at the different options and working collaboratively with the Professional Rugby Board (PRB) to look at how we do that. So we’ll make an announcement in June on the next steps.”
Is a tender process part of that if consensus is not reached?
“That is one option. It’s complex, because there’s not just how, it’s when. You want to balance making sure there’s some stability, but also giving people certainty.
“That’s important for employees, fans and players. So we’ve got to balance some various different risks and challenges and make sure we look at that carefully.”
What would you say the future of Ospreys and Scarlets is?
“I would say wait until June. I know that’s hard and people would like to have all the answers now, but we’re going to work collaboratively with the PRB to look at what the process will be post June and then we’ll be open about explaining what the next steps will be.”
When you had press conferences in August and October and statements were made about getting down as quickly as possible to three teams, there was talk of consent and a tender process starting last December. None of those things have happened. Why should fans have faith in the executive and board to achieve what they’re trying to do?
“It is complex and lots of different things happen. When we did the press conference in October there was a commitment to try and find it by consensus at that point.
“We didn’t know Y11 were potentially going to bid for Cardiff, so once that happened we have to go through that process and take it a step at a time.
“You have to be agile and flexible in your strategy and able to work out what comes next.
“The board and executive are determined to do this in the best way possible and we’ve got to constantly balance what’s best as a national governing body in the interest of the whole system.
“Sometimes decisions may feel difficult for certain parts of that system, in terms of timing or how we’re going about it.
“Our job is constantly to say what is in the best interest of the whole system.”
Why don’t you just shut Cardiff down and go to three? You could do it tomorrow and get what you wanted?
“I don’t believe it’s the right thing for Welsh rugby. I talk about my job as chief executive of the national governing body. I have to make decisions based on the whole system.
“That is often hard, because it doesn’t necessarily mean individual bits of the system all benefit from it in the same way and equally. But that’s my job and I do not believe that shutting Cardiff is the right answer.”
So you’re valuing Cardiff ahead of the Scarlets and ahead of the Ospreys. That’s the only interpretation?
“No, I’m not.”
Is one of the west Wales clubs is going to go?
“There are other options in the west. It doesn’t mean that one club is going to go.”
So that means a new team will get set up in the west?
“Let us work that one out and we’ll come to you in June.”
Does the Y11 Cardiff deal falling through mean you have lost a way of going to three sides?
“It was never our way of going from four to three. I said that at the time and it was questioned.
“They were completely independent processes. I never saw that as an easy option of getting from four to three. People assumed that’s what was happening.
“Y11 remained committed to Ospreys as well as wanting to potentially purchase Cardiff.”
On the finances, you’ve now got in theory four teams until the end of the 2027-28 season, you now own Cardiff, and still have to fund the pathway. A reason given to drop a region was to concentrate money so are you in a position financially to do all of that to the end of 2027-28 season?
“We can do all that until the end of the 2027-28 season because of the improvement in our finances.
“We’ve had a tough year financially because of ticket sales etc but we’re still performing a level higher than previously.
“At that point in 2028 it becomes difficult in terms of banking agreements and covenants and our kind of debt and all those elements.
“That’s why it’s important we continue to work on what the future looks like.”
When does the URC contract end?
“The URC are working collaboratively with us at the moment, and waiting for us to confirm timings, and then they will look to us. The URC contract is in perpetuity.”
As a governing body you can’t own any franchise in PRL [English league] if you want to go down that road in the future. Is that correct?
“I don’t think you need to have an investor model.
“If we ever got to the point, and at the moment, we’re fully committed to URC, where an Anglo-Welsh league [becomes possible] then you’d hope actually, that will be very attractive to investors.”