CLEVELAND, Ohio \u2014 In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast, Ethan Sands and Jimmy Watkins discuss the Cavs\u2019 two-way players Nae\u2019Qwan Tomlin and Luke Travers. They explore the challenges of shooting confidence for young players.<\/p>\n
Takeaways:<\/p>\n
Nae\u2019Qwan Tomlin and Luke Travers are still developing as players.G League stats are not always indicative of NBA success.The Cavs need to balance player development with roster flexibility.Shooting confidence is crucial for players like Luke Travers.Jaylon Tyson\u2019s growth is essential for the Cavs\u2019 future.The two-way contract life is stressful but necessary for development.Cavs have a history of success with G League players.Players need to adapt quickly to the NBA lifestyle.The Cavs may keep roster spots open for flexibility.Development is a player-by-player basis, depending on individual needs.<\/p>\n
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Subscribe and listen on <\/a>Apple Podcasts<\/a> or Spotify<\/a>.<\/p>\n The video version of the podcast is on YouTube<\/a> as well.<\/p>\n Transcript<\/p>\n NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.<\/p>\n Ethan Sands <\/p>\n What up, Cavs Nation? I\u2019m your host, Ethan Sands, and I\u2019m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. And joining me today, Jimmy Watkins, cleland.com\u2019s columnist, and we\u2019re here to discuss how the Cal\u2019s are rounding out their roster. Sure, throughout the summer, we\u2019ve had different conversations about the 14th roster spot.<\/p>\n which the Cavs still need to fill, but the Cavs also need a third two-way player to go alongside Nae\u2019Qwan Tomlin and Luke Travers, who will see plenty of time in the G League with the Cleveland Charge, but there will be opportunities for guys like Nae\u2019Qwan Tomlin to showcase his abilities in the NBA as well. Jimmy, let\u2019s just start here. What was your…<\/p>\n initial reaction to seeing Nae\u2019Qwan Tomlin and his development over his first season in the NBA and Luke Travers in his first season with the Cleveland Cavaliers after coming over from Australia because we know he was a drafting stash from a few years ago.<\/p>\n Jimmy Watkins (01:18.955)<\/p>\n mean, we didn\u2019t see a ton from either of these guys. I think Nae\u2019Qwan Tomlin had some interesting moments at the end of the season when the Cavs were resting guys. I think Luke Travers understandably still looks pretty raw as a prospect. mean, he\u2019s going to be, patience is the name of the game. For him, we know the swing skill is shooting and…<\/p>\n We know that his role is going to have to change if he\u2019s going to be a consistent contributor on this team. These guys both feel like lumps of clay a little bit to me still in there. I\u2019ll say this. I can more clearly envision the Nae\u2019Qwan Tomlin role right now with the<\/p>\n with the athleticism, with the jumper, having some promising moments, and with the size. I mean, I just think that when you\u2019re talking, the NBA will always give size another chance. Luke Travers, obviously for his position, has the size as well, but when you\u2019re guy that\u2019s gonna have the ball, you\u2019re gonna play on the perimeter, it\u2019s just a little bit different, like that shooting skill.<\/p>\n is is paramount to his to his NBA development. And again, we looked we\u2019re looking down the line here. It seems like a very big picture conversation to have given where the Cavs are right now. These two. is a situation where, you know, the core four is still trying to get over the top. But as we keep talking about, eventually, eventually, one of the core four probably ends up leaving at least one because of<\/p>\n the second apron constraints. think a lot of people would look at Jared Allen as a natural choice in that spot. So that\u2019s going to create a role for potentially someone like Nick, one time when potentially like somebody who isn\u2019t on the roster right now, potentially something that we\u2019re not thinking about right now. like, I think the two,<\/p>\n Jimmy Watkins (03:42.565)<\/p>\n sure fire long-term, you know, five plus year guys that the Cavs want right now are Evan Mobley and Donovan Mitchell. And the Donovan Mitchell thing gets complicated with his, the extension that he has coming up, but those are the two guys that they\u2019re building this team around for sure right now. And that the rest leaves opportunities for, for, for guys like this. And I\u2019ll say that I know<\/p>\n Last year was Luke Travers his first year coming over and make one time was for sure in the NBA. But we\u2019ve talked about this when we gave these guys sort of a year in review the end of last season. Guys get drafted over every day. New two ways got new two way guys come along every day like you there\u2019s as much as this is a long term look and you\u2019re a mold of clay this like you there has to be urgency.<\/p>\n This is your life is a two way. It\u2019s keep the bigger picture, but also know that someone could take your spot at any time. Stressful existence is what it sounds like to me.<\/p>\n Ethan Sands (04:51.288)<\/p>\n thousand percent. And I think Nae\u2019Qwan Tomlin might understand that a little bit better than anybody because of the whole JT Thor situation a couple of years ago where we had fluctuation of players and guys getting different contracts, getting different deals, and Nae\u2019Qwan getting thrust into this role when he wasn\u2019t even on the roster before the season. Right. So I think it\u2019s interesting to think about how<\/p>\n These guys are in flux and you make a great point to me. But I also think they there\u2019s an understanding for them that they\u2019re still developing and especially Nae\u2019Qwan Tomlin who didn\u2019t play high school basketball, didn\u2019t really play AAU basketball, really came up at Rucker Park instead of organized basketball until going to college. So I do think it\u2019s interesting to see how he\u2019ll develop and how he molds because of what<\/p>\n how in depth the training regimen is as now an NBA player as such a youthful player when it comes to the game of basketball as a whole. But I do think that when you mentioned guys that are going to be on the roster or are potentially going to be on the roster still in a few years, another one that stands out to me is how the Cavs are viewing Jaylon Tyson because of his potential development and what he\u2019s capable of.<\/p>\n as a wing player, a defender, as an offensive distributor, all these other things because of that. And I think that\u2019s another thing that we have to question when it comes to the two-way contracts. When it comes to the G League acclamation is that Jaylen Tyson and Craig Porter Jr. last year spent some time down there to prove to themselves and the coaching staff and the organization that they were too good for the G League.<\/p>\n I think that\u2019s also an opportunity for Nae\u2019Qwan Tomlin. Obviously, Luke Travers has had some great games down in the G League with the Cleveland Charge as well. I believe he had a triple double at one point last year. But how much do you take stock in that, Jimmy, in those games? Because of the competition level, because of what the Cavs are hoping for from these guys, or is it the role that they\u2019re developing that\u2019s more crucial for your eyes when it comes to these kinds of players?<\/p>\n Jimmy Watkins (07:12.149)<\/p>\n I kind of look at G League stats like I look at preseason NFL stats. You\u2019d rather have good ones than not, but I don\u2019t know that it\u2019s really transferable. And as much as you\u2019re looking at stats, you\u2019re also looking at process. the stats are the baseline. If you\u2019re not producing in the G League, much like if you\u2019re not producing in NFL preseason, that\u2019s probably a red flag for me, for you as a prospect. We\u2019ve seen a lot of guys who go into G League, put a…<\/p>\n huge numbers and then you know, the NBA, they don\u2019t they don\u2019t quite get there. But they they got a list of guys of the guys who make it from the G League like they all have crazy G League stats, right? Like it\u2019s kind of a prerequisite. It\u2019s, it\u2019s, it\u2019s not going to move my needle as a okay, Luke Trapper average, you know, 15 Luke Trappers average 15 seven and nine in the G League last year that you know that bodes well for his NBA development. I guess it\u2019s just<\/p>\n it\u2019s it\u2019s a sign that okay, maybe like we might have something here. It\u2019s not there\u2019s not a statistical indicator that would make me say, okay, it\u2019s time to call the drivers up right now. It\u2019s more about, you know, how how are you getting those numbers? What are your what are your, again, to the NFL preseason? Are you getting are you getting the ball in the right place for per se? Are you running an offense? Well, the NBA? Are you<\/p>\n Are you seeing the offense the way you\u2019re supposed to? Are you making the correct reads? In Luke Travers\u2019 case, he\u2019s kind of like at the G League level. When he has the ball in his hands, he\u2019s a little quarterbacky. Nae\u2019Qwan Tomlin defensively, are you reacting quickly enough? Are you in the right places? Are you positioning? Those sorts of things matter as much as the numbers, but you gotta have the numbers, because if you\u2019re not producing the G League, you\u2019re<\/p>\n I promise you, the NBA is gonna be much harder.<\/p>\n Ethan Sands (09:16.002)<\/p>\n Yeah. And to go into our conversation about who should be in this next two way contract fold alongside Nick Kwan and Luke, I think we have to also go into the fact that I do think that the Cavs will keep Nick Kwan Tomlin and Luke Travers on two way deals at least until the midway point in the season as they\u2019ve done in the past. We\u2019ve seen this with Craig Porter Jr. when he got a full NBA, standard NBA contract.<\/p>\n because he proved himself. He proved to be capable of playing at the NBA level. Again, a player that seemed like he was too good to be in the G League whenever he was down there. And you also got the understanding that Nae\u2019Qwan Tomlin and Luke, of course, still have a lot of room to grow. But I do think the Cavs want to see more from them in the capacity at the NBA level and also just having them around players like Evan Mobley, Donovan Mitchell.<\/p>\n to get acclimated and see how the NBA lifestyle is. Sure, you got it in the first season, but it can change drastically in year two as well, depending on your role. So I think that\u2019s something that is important to know. Like these two guys will still be in my mind and on two way contracts by the time the off season comes to a close. The discussion for one of them to be pushed or elevated to the 15th roster spot.<\/p>\n instead of the Cavs going and getting one during the mid-season trade deadline is where my mind is at, especially based on the track record and the history of the Cleveland Cavaliers in recent years especially. But when it comes to the third roster spot, I do think Tristan Anaruna out of Cleveland State has shown passes, has shown different visions of what the Cavs could enjoy using and could see himself<\/p>\n fitting in to a mold of that plus also being a Cleveland State guy will play in his favor. Jimmy, what do you think about this entire situation when it comes to the three two-way spots, Tristan and Aruna, what he was able to accomplish in summer league or showcase in summer league, and then where Nae\u2019Qwan and Luke sit, especially what you think about the contract situation?<\/p>\n Jimmy Watkins (11:36.489)<\/p>\n I think this is what the Tristan and Runa situation and that\u2019s what summer leaks for, right? Like you take flyers on interesting players. and if they show you something, yeah, you give them a little bit more extended run. He\u2019s on exhibit 10 right now. And he\u2019s the kind of, he\u2019s an interesting player. If you want to longer look at him and yeah, that\u2019s fine. Energy guy, energy guys is a guy who<\/p>\n That\u2019s a skill that can take you a long way, right? And maybe that\u2019s a guy that the cabs want to get a little bit of a longer look at.<\/p>\n the, when it comes to the 15th roster spot team like the Cavs, as much as they are trying to keep their feet in both the development track and the, and the championship track. think for a team like this, who particularly already has a couple of injuries to start the year, and is trying to win a title. I tend to be of the mindset that<\/p>\n I want to, if I\u2019m a contending team, I want to keep that 15th spot open and maybe save it for a buyout guy. you know, if someone, if there\u2019s a small, a vet men guy that doesn\u2019t like what\u2019s going on or that, that whose team that they joined is not going, their season not going the way you think, you know, small price to pay there to absorb them onto your team.<\/p>\n I like flexibility, with that 15th roster, so I don\u2019t see any reason to rush because like, let\u2019s be real. Nate, Kwon, Tomlin and Luke Travers don\u2019t have a role on the 2024, 25 Cavs. maybe there\u2019s, you could argue there\u2019s some value in having them see and be around more NBA guys, this year, but that\u2019s Kenny Atkinson as a player development guy will tell you.<\/p>\n Jimmy Watkins (13:48.405)<\/p>\n that the best way to learn it is do it. And they\u2019re just not going to do much up here. So I think the best thing for them, for their development would probably be to stay in the G league, get as many reps as they can. And by the, on two ways, still have opportunities when you\u2019re having a big rest night for, for some of your guys, or if you have a slew of injuries at a certain position, still have the opportunity to give those guys a taste of the NBA every now and then. But<\/p>\n Yeah, you I think you want to it doesn\u2019t doesn\u2019t make sense for either side of that spectrum, in my opinion, to give the 15th roster spot for one of those guys because they need the reps and the Cavs could use the roster flexibility down<\/p>\n Ethan Sands (14:29.836)<\/p>\n Yeah, I wasn\u2019t thinking like now, as I was mentioning, like it would be a mid-season thing. It would be something that\u2019s decided around the trade deadline.<\/p>\n Jimmy Watkins (14:38.325)<\/p>\n I think, I think if that happens, it will be because the calves don\u2019t anticipate having a buyout guy or they think the buyout market is going to be dry. Something like that. I also just think like the two way I\u2019m blanking on the two way like games limit right now. If it\u2019s, it\u2019s like in the twenties or thirties or something like that. I just don\u2019t think those guys are going to<\/p>\n get that close to the game\u2019s limits. Why do you need to give them that 15th? mean, it\u2019s possible. The answer would be they\u2019re killing it on the G League level, particularly in the areas that we talked about where, know, Luke Travers is reading the game at super high level and Nae\u2019Qwan Tomlin is taking a huge step in understanding defense and<\/p>\n Having an awesome season in that regard that totally I could see that that\u2019s that\u2019s fair. But even like there\u2019s just I just think of the roster flexible and we know the black bio guys don\u2019t tend to play very much like Jovante green was a nice presence for the Cavs and Kenny I joked during the playoffs that you Kenny was mad when he put Jovante green in the game because he just wanted to see the energy go up and that\u2019s what Jovante green brought to this team. But<\/p>\n It\u2019s just, it\u2019s nice to have that in your back pocket. If there does, if an unexpected roster need does arise or one of the guys who just happened to really like, I still like that option better than given to one of these guys who, again, quite frankly, will be better suited for their development by staying in the G league.<\/p>\n Ethan Sands (16:24.718)<\/p>\n Yeah, and I think that\u2019s fair. But to your point, the two way players limit or are limited to a maximum of 50 regular season games in the NBA. So to your point, they\u2019re not reaching that. That\u2019s not going to be a threshold that that Nae\u2019Qwan Tomlin and Luke Travers has to worry about because in the 2024 and 2025 season, even though Nae\u2019Qwan Tomlin was a late acquisition again because of the waving of JT Thor, he played in just five.<\/p>\n NBA game starting in one Luke Travers played it who was with the team for the entirety of the season played in just 12 Didn\u2019t get a start. So yeah, I do think that\u2019s an important notion as well and I think you\u2019re right in that facet Jimmy but My next question would have to be when it comes to how the Cavs in the Cleveland charge operate because we\u2019ve seen it over the last couple of years how<\/p>\n the organization is trying to play this balancing act of getting the players the reps that they need and they deserve, but also trying to help these players, as I was mentioning earlier, get the acclamation to the NBA by being around NBA players on a regular basis, even if it meant just sitting on the end of the bench. And we saw this last season with Luke Travers, as he would come up and down with the Cleveland charge, and then also Jaylen Tyson and Craig Porter, Jr.<\/p>\n at one point playing in two games in the same day because of this flexibility. Jimmy, what is your thought process on how the Cavs have utilized this, are growing in the aspect of this? Because I was a proponent of they were holding guys like Imani Bates, and we know how that story ended in Cleveland, we\u2019re holding Imani Bates too much.<\/p>\n with the Cleveland charge or excuse me, went to Cleveland Cavaliers on the end of the bench because they wanted him to mature. They needed him to grow up to see what was capable of or what the routines was and all the expectations that were set for him. But also not allowing him to get reps with the Cleveland charge. And in some facets, people may say that he just didn\u2019t get into a rhythm with the charge and that was a<\/p>\n Ethan Sands (18:49.112)<\/p>\n part of why his numbers were so bad. Because even back to your point earlier, Jimmy, you would rather have better stats than not in the G League. And if you\u2019re not able to produce, especially efficiency wise for a guy known as a pure shooter in the G League, you\u2019re not going to find yourself on an NBA roster. And that\u2019s now the situation for Imani Bates. So overarching to ask you, Jimmy, do you think that they\u2019re doing better with this concept of balance?<\/p>\n between Cleveland charge and the calves and helping them mature and develop at a young age or do you think they need to do more one way or another?<\/p>\n Jimmy Watkins (19:26.177)<\/p>\n I think this is such an in like a player by base player by player basis, it depends on what each player needs individually. Monty Bates, I was joking in my head like, oh, Ethan just said a Monty Bates that just means we got three angry subtexts about how the Cavs misused him or he should have been playing more or whatever. guy like that is rare that a guy with his high school pedigree ends up in the situation that he\u2019s in. so I mean, NBA<\/p>\n NBA teams will tell you that that kind of pedigree matters and those guys get a lot more chances than some other guys in their positions. Fans see that they get excited about it. It\u2019s just not very often that you have a guy clearly that talented who\u2019s riding the bench in the NBA. And I would say again, player by player basis with Imani who did need to mature physically in a lot of ways. And maybe that was<\/p>\n that was helpful to him to be around the guys like Dona Mitchell and Evan Mobley who, you know, see what they\u2019re doing every day with their bodies, see what it really takes, see what practice habits look like. Maybe that maybe that was the best thing for him. And I don\u2019t know that didn\u2019t work out here. So you could argue it wasn\u2019t but I also just think he was in a tough spot here. We\u2019ve I mean, we\u2019ve done entire pods about how Imani what Imani Bates<\/p>\n Has been his best football player for his entire life is not what he was ever going to be with the Cavs. And frankly, it\u2019s probably not what he\u2019s ever going to be in the NBA at this point, but he was, he was in a difficult situation. I think for guys like, particularly for a guy like Nate Quantamo, who\u2019s so new to the game, he just needs to play. He just needs to play and figure the rest out later. Luke Travers new to the NBA, new to this culture. think it\u2019s, it\u2019s whatever you.<\/p>\n do with him, it would be good to give him some consistency because he\u2019s already turned his life around. Turn his life upside down, I should say so much to get here. Right. But again, that\u2019s something like that\u2019s another guy who could use a lot of on ball reps. So I think when it to moving guys for their for their the sake of their rhythm, like their encore rhythm.<\/p>\n Jimmy Watkins (21:48.705)<\/p>\n I mean, buddy, that\u2019s the NBA. Like if you\u2019re, if you\u2019re in this situation, if you\u2019re a two way player, the odds are overwhelming that you like your ceiling as an NBA players can be like role player. Okay. And you know, role players never get to complain about rhythm because you just get, you just have to produce one called upon. That\u2019s the game. And then when we were happy, we had these conversations sometimes about, um, guys like Dean Wade.<\/p>\n who, you know, it\u2019s a chicken or the egg thing. Does, does Dean Wade get confidence because he gets more opportunities or does he get more opportunities because he\u2019s showing you that he\u2019s confident, right? the NBA, the only guys who get to really dictate their own rhythm are the guys at the top of the food chain. You\u2019re Donovan Mitchell\u2019s, Darius Garland\u2019s, Evan Mobley\u2019s guys who have the ball in their hand all the time. Those guys, their mat, their rhythm matters the most. Everyone else.<\/p>\n is a cog around them and sometimes you go a quarter without getting a shot up. Sometimes you\u2019re on the bench for a couple of games and then you have to come in and play 15 minutes and shoot as well as you\u2019re shooting in practice. Like whether that\u2019s fair, whether that\u2019s ideal for you as an individual player, it doesn\u2019t really matter. Rolled world guys have to be the ultimate team guys. So this is an extreme, it\u2019s an extreme version of it, but<\/p>\n The two-way life is something of a facsimile of a preview of what\u2019s to come in your MBA existence if you can get there. I think the more you can get comfortable with that discomfort, the better off you will be even if it\u2019s very difficult. We all acknowledge that.<\/p>\n Ethan Sands (23:35.998)<\/p>\n Thousand percent and you mentioned Dean way and I was gonna get into him very slightly here in a second but it also made me think like I Think Luke Travers might have the same issue that Dean way does the shooting confidence issue like we understand that Everybody says baseball is a thinking man\u2019s game basketball is a mentally strong people\u2019s game<\/p>\n But you have to be confident at every time. There\u2019s always a saying, Kobe Bryant, I\u2019d rather go one for 30 because it says that I didn\u2019t stop shooting than one of nine or whatever, because that means I gave up on myself, right? Dean Wade and Luke Travers have to have that confidence no matter if the shot\u2019s going in or not to take the shots available to them. And Luke Travers, who still hasn\u2019t hit an NBA three, I should mention in his career.<\/p>\n is his entire career bringing over coming over from Australia is based on knocking down shots, expanding his shooting game. We have talked about this at length. And I think he knows this because every time we come into the practice facility, that\u2019s what he\u2019s working on his outside shot. So there\u2019s some kind of thought process going towards this, but<\/p>\n Sometimes there\u2019s a confidence issue sometimes a skill issue and I think we\u2019re still trying to figure out what that is for Luke Travers Obviously, he\u2019s only been here for a year. But how that is going to even out is important for me to keep an eye on this coming season because if it\u2019s a skill issue that can be worked upon it can be practiced but if it\u2019s a confidence issue as we\u2019ve seen with Dean Wade very hard to change but<\/p>\n In that light, I do think that it is encouraging to these guys, Nickle and Tomlin, Luke Travers, that the Cavs do have so many success stories when it comes to their Cleveland Charge players, right? Sam Merrill just got a boatload of cash because of what he was able to produce in his first season with the Cleveland Charge, right? He got brought up in his first season with the Cleveland Charge. Dean Wade, also a Cleveland Charge success story.<\/p>\n Ethan Sands (26:04.749)<\/p>\n because you\u2019ve been in the NBA for the amount of time you have. You are the longest tenured Cavalier because of what you were able to do in the Cleveland charge G League. Craig Porter Jr. kind of the same way as well, right? Because he got a standard contract in his rookie season being on a two-way deal after being an undrafted free agent. I think this is all important nuance for these guys to have this perspective.<\/p>\n of it is possible if we put the work in and we get what we need on the back end as well when it comes to either playing time reps or just being able to be around the NBA caliber players like we\u2019ve mentioned.<\/p>\n Jimmy Watkins (26:49.365)<\/p>\n And that\u2019s got to help you in like the end of these second round conversations with agents, right? Like some guys, you get to a certain point and some guys would just rather not be drafted. They\u2019d rather control where they end up. And if you\u2019re the cabs and you\u2019re on the phone with one of those guys and you have all these success stories to point to, like that\u2019s going to give you some credence over some of these other teams who are offering you different stuff, right?<\/p>\n even in that sense, crucially, of course, because the Cavs don\u2019t have roles to offer some of these some of these young guys. I think so you mentioned the Dean way Luke Travers corollary and to stray thoughts there one the Kobe quote, sometimes the worst people take that Kobe quote to heart and it\u2019s like, no, not you. You don\u2019t need to be going on for 30. But like it does apply applies everyone in some regard, like you\u2019re a guy like Luke Travers guy like Dean way, who<\/p>\n you know, three point shooting is your swing skill. And that\u2019s how you\u2019re gonna not only like your development, Swinskill, but like your stay on the court Swinskill. Like we all know, like the only way Dean Wade\u2019s gonna get chastised by Kenny Atkinson is he\u2019s passing down up shots. Luke Travers, that\u2019s gonna be your opportunity to change people\u2019s minds and then get you started having you jump people in the<\/p>\n hierarchy of the organization, you\u2019re going to start making some threes and it\u2019s like, you\u2019re on a smaller scale, I\u2019d rather go, you know, one for five than oh, for one, you know what mean? Like, please keep firing those things. I would also say for a guy like Lou Travers, has such a an interesting combination of size and skill. Some some of these guys straight up like shooting, shooting is so like<\/p>\n Yes, we have all these super highly paid NBA coaches. Chip England exists. He\u2019s the shot doctor, right? I think shooting, this is just from the hip take. I\u2019ve not done scientific research on it. I think shooting, one of the most critical points of developing your jump shot is like youth basketball. It\u2019s because the guys who can do it have been doing it their whole lives, have been working on the form their whole lives, have been.<\/p>\n Jimmy Watkins (29:10.815)<\/p>\n rely upon, that\u2019s the key point, rely upon a jump shot at all times. Luke Travers has been tall and skilled for a long time. He probably didn\u2019t rely on a jump shot for a lot of his upbringing, right? Like that\u2019s why it\u2019s harder, it\u2019s much harder to learn once you get down the road. And that\u2019s why, again, some people will say like, guy\u2019s been playing basketball their whole lives. Like, how could you not be confident?<\/p>\n from behind the three point line or for some guys who don\u2019t shoot free throws, who don\u2019t shoot free throws very well. It\u2019s like, that\u2019s not what got them here. That\u2019s not what got them here. And so now it\u2019s now this thing that you, that wasn\u2019t as important to you, to your game. It\u2019s now the most important thing to your game. And that\u2019s a kind of a crazy head game to play with yourself. Right? It\u2019s like, all right, this is my, my identity as a basketball player has been this, my whole, you Luke Travers.<\/p>\n has been rebounds assists, you know, driving, creating opportunities for others. Now it\u2019s, I\u2019m not going to play in the NBA if I can\u2019t develop a passable jump shot. That\u2019s crazy. That\u2019s hard. That\u2019s hard. And it\u2019s hard. It\u2019s a hard thing to develop.<\/p>\n Ethan Sands (30:27.5)<\/p>\n Yeah, it\u2019s the old saying, can\u2019t teach an old dog new tricks. Well, you\u2019re not that old and you better learn because if you don\u2019t, we\u2019re going to be having a whole lot of different conversations. But that\u2019s especially down the road for these guys who are just getting to the league. But I also, when we talk about encouraging factors, mean, Jaylen Tyson coming out of his rookie season when he played in 47 games and started in three is now<\/p>\n in the conversation for being a sometimes thrown into the starting lineup kind of player in year two because of the situation that the Cavs are entering in for the 2025-2026 season where Max Trues is going to be out till Thanksgiving, till Christmas, till the New Year, who knows, right? Because of the ramp up period that he\u2019ll need before he\u2019ll be able.<\/p>\n to come back to the court at full strength as well. It\u2019s going to be an opportunity for Kenny Atkinson to do what he loves to do, Jimmy, play with lineups. Whether that\u2019s Deandre Hunter in the starting unit, whether that\u2019s Dean Wade in the starting unit, whether that\u2019s Jaylon Tyson in the starting unit. whether Kenny Atkinson says that he wants to move Sam Merrill down to the three and start Tyrese Proctor. Who knows what Kenny Atkinson is going to do to start this season?<\/p>\n because of what injuries he\u2019s going to have to go around, especially when it comes to Darius Garland and Max Drew is not likely to be available for the start of the season. I think it\u2019s interesting about Jaylon Tyson in particular, because we do have some textures and fans who are ready already to start putting him in the starting unit and letting him run alongside the core four. And while I think<\/p>\n That is probably the best suited position for him to be successful in a starting unit. Again, Darius Garland is not going to be there, right? So that\u2019s not the core four, it\u2019s the core three. And some of what Darius Garland does alleviates some of the issues that Jaylen Tyson has on the floor. Ball handling is something that we\u2019re still trying to see at the NBA level, even though he was a point guard at Cal for his last year in college before getting drafted with the number 20 overall pick.<\/p>\n Ethan Sands (32:50.914)<\/p>\n by the Cleveland Cavaliers. Jimmy, to end today\u2019s podcast, what do you think about Jaylon Tyson, his growth, his experience last year, and what his role could be and how much it could fluctuate this season, especially coming off an introductory press conference last year when he was talking about wanting to be in the rotation last year? I think he\u2019s going to get a true test, a true opportunity to start this year and to be able to hold that position.<\/p>\n for the remainder of the season.<\/p>\n Jimmy Watkins (33:22.529)<\/p>\n Yeah, think he\u2019d last year, I think he did a good job filling the gaps, doing what was asked of him and understanding this is going to be completely new situation for him. New role, new responsibilities, all that stuff. With the Magstras injury, mean, there\u2019s, I would, there\u2019s going to be some opportunity for him early to set a strong tone. And I think it\u2019s going to be more of the same, like the Cavs will just want more of what he did last year. Hustle, get rebounds, play good defense, shoot your open threes.<\/p>\n make enough of them. we\u2019ve said this before a thousand times. Jaylon Tyson is a very, very important player in the Cavs future. Okay. When here\u2019s a question for you. I wrote this when they drafted them. When do you think the Cavs will draft 20th again, 20th or better again? Like there\u2019s a, there\u2019s a decent chance that Jaylon Tyson is going to be the prospect on this roster with the highest<\/p>\n Draft capital investment outside of your like core for you know, new guys new guys outside of the existing roster that we all know For the rest of the decade That\u2019s possible because of the the draft capital they still owe Utah and the the swaps of swaps that were part of the the Deandre Hunter trade last year so like this is a very important swing piece and in a cap environment where<\/p>\n young, cheap, team controlled contracts are so valuable. So this is a really like the Cavs are invested in Jaylon Tyson\u2019s success. They really, really need him down the road. And this will be a very interesting trial run for him without Max Trues. Just a rotation spot left open for the first, I don\u2019t know, couple months of the season.<\/p>\n at or around Jaylen Tyson\u2019s position wing, right? So, yep, you have a runway here. You have a runway here to prove that you can stick and prove. I think like, again, we\u2019ll start talking about second apron decisions. I think there\u2019s a world where if Jaylen Tyson plays well enough, the Cavs might feel a little bit more comfortable getting off of somebody else.<\/p>\n Jimmy Watkins (35:48.885)<\/p>\n who, who fills a similar role and costs a lot more money. Right. So that\u2019s that would be, that would be what I\u2019m looking for. All right. Jaylon Tyson, prove that you belong in an MBA rotation. and that you can fit in the role that you\u2019re being given. mean, a little bit of, it wouldn\u2019t even hurt Jaylon Tyson. And we know he can do this. This was his entire role account. Show us a little bit of secondary playmaking.<\/p>\n That\u2019s a ball handler. Like if you\u2019re playing with the second unit at the beginning of this year, there\u2019s no Darius Garland and Max Struus is out. Someone\u2019s got to knife their way into the paint. Might as well be you. Like we understand Lonzo Ball is going to have a lot of ball handling responsibilities. We\u2019ve established he doesn\u2019t go to the rim very much anymore. At least he didn\u2019t last year. Somebody\u2019s got to do it. Might as well be you. Start, start, you know, start the Keniai consumer machine.<\/p>\n Get an advantage against your defender. Start the kick. Start the kick swing train, right? That sort of stuff. Small things.<\/p>\n Ethan Sands (36:55.798)<\/p>\n Yeah, and I think that\u2019s absolutely right when it comes to the ball handling when it comes to the opportunity for him because of his experience as a ball handler in college, as I mentioned earlier, like there\u2019s some confidence there. There should be at least right. But it\u2019s also the fact that although I was a person saying that I do think and I still believe this Craig Porter Jr. probably should have got more run in the playoffs when Ty Jerome was struggling. Jaylon Tyson has<\/p>\n the easier path to playing time to start the season and being a second or third option as a ball handler for him is not going to be more of a surprise rather than when Craig Porter Jr. is in the game. His main purpose is to study an offense and get to his spots, right? And Jimmy, you\u2019re right about Lonzo Ball as well.<\/p>\n But when he does drive to the paint, it\u2019s usually not for his own good. It\u2019s usually for a paint touch and a kick in some capacity and getting other people involved, not necessarily going to the rack and laying or dunking the ball anymore. It was part of his game before the injuries. But now with that, it\u2019s going to be interesting to see what kind of gameplay Lonzo Ball has. But.<\/p>\n to end the podcast with your question about the draft stuff. I just wanted to reiterate for this podcast, especially because we\u2019re talking about two-way guys, and we\u2019re talking about guys who have been drafted recently and guys that are still on the bottom part of the Cavs roster and rotation list. The Cavs have a first round pick that is owned and the San Antonio Spurs will receive the more favorable pick in 2026. They also have a second round pick.<\/p>\n that year, but after that, the next time they have a first round pick is in 2028, but the Utah Jazz has the right to swap those picks as well. And then the next time is 2030, and then again in 2031 when they have first round picks. So it\u2019s going to be an interesting development as to where the Cavs draft over the next few years, but also the fact that<\/p>\n Ethan Sands (39:14.68)<\/p>\n that when they do draft first overall, or sorry, when they do draft in the first round in quote unquote recent two years to come, it is in part with another team having some kind of stipulation to those draft rights. So I think it\u2019s gonna be extremely interesting to see what shakes out when it comes to all of that. But with all that being said,<\/p>\n That\u2019ll wrap up today\u2019s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. But remember to become a CAS insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to some texts. Chris is going to be off for a good majority of September, but we\u2019re going to keep the ball rolling and I\u2019m going to need your help to do it. Send in questions, ask us anything you want, and we will get into it as much as possible over the next month so we can still…<\/p>\n give you the content that you need and that you deserve. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.com slash calves and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don\u2019t like it, that\u2019s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It\u2019s easy, but we can tell you that the people who signed up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the calves from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn\u2019t just our podcast, it\u2019s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through Subtext y\u2019all be safe. We out.<\/p>\n If you purchase a product or register for an account through a link on our site, we may receive compensation. By using this site, you consent to our User Agreement<\/a> and agree that your clicks, interactions, and personal information may be collected, recorded, and\/or stored by us and social media and other third-party partners in accordance with our Privacy Policy.<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"CLEVELAND, Ohio \u2014 In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast, Ethan Sands and Jimmy Watkins…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":112935,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[557],"tags":[64,63,590,85],"class_list":["post-112934","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-nba","tag-au","tag-australia","tag-nba","tag-sports"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/112934","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=112934"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/112934\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/112935"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=112934"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=112934"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=112934"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}