{"id":161760,"date":"2025-09-22T20:11:09","date_gmt":"2025-09-22T20:11:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/161760\/"},"modified":"2025-09-22T20:11:09","modified_gmt":"2025-09-22T20:11:09","slug":"the-giants-preseason-starting-pitching-depth-was-a-mirage","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/161760\/","title":{"rendered":"The Giants\u2019 preseason starting pitching depth was a mirage"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>The season isn\u2019t over, so take this with a grain of salt, but the San Francisco Giants\u2019 season ended over the weekend. Baseball-Reference and FanGraphs have different methodologies for their postseason odds, which leads to discrepancies and wide gaps in the middle of a season, but they slowly converge toward the end of every season. The Giants\u2019 postseason odds are 0.3 percent at the former site and 0.2 percent at the latter. You can rummage around for the Jim Carrey GIF if you\u2019d like, but you have better things to do.<\/p>\n<p>As the Giants faced this scenario in the weekend series against the Los Angeles Dodgers \u2014 not exactly do-or-die, win or go home, but close enough \u2014 they started Kai-Wei Teng and Trevor McDonald in two of the three games. This isn\u2019t a complaint directed toward Bob Melvin or Buster Posey. Them\u2019s the options. And it\u2019s not where the Giants expected to be.<\/p>\n<p>To his credit, McDonald pitched like someone who belongs. There\u2019s a half-baked article in my head about how someone like him needs to get away from the automated ball-strike system in Triple A and pitch to a catcher who can frame the heck out of his sinkers, with a major-league defense behind him. He\u2019s not getting this kind of defensive help in Sacramento:<\/p>\n<p>Teng struck out six of the 15 batters he faced, but he also hit three batters and walked two. He has some of the nastiest, weirdest movement on his pitches you\u2019ve ever seen, with absolutely zero guarantees that they will go where he wants them to. At this point, it\u2019s probably healthier to think of him like a knuckleballer. Could <a href=\"https:\/\/www.baseball-reference.com\/players\/d\/dicker.01.shtml\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">win the Cy Young when he\u2019s 37<\/a>, could be pitching for <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Fortitudo_Baseball_Bologna\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\" target=\"_blank\">Fortitudo Bologna<\/a> by this time next season, with an infinite number of possibilities in between. You tell me.<\/p>\n<p>Regardless of each pitcher\u2019s future, which is still very much in question, one thing that\u2019s certain is that neither pitcher was supposed to be a part of the present. Teng was designated for assignment over the offseason and re-signed as a minor-league free agent. McDonald was somewhere between 10th and 15th on the depth chart on Opening Day, depending on your personal rankings. They started games the Giants absolutely needed to win, and it wasn\u2019t anyone\u2019s fault, necessarily. Just one of those baseball things.<\/p>\n<p>We can learn from this. \u201cA team can never have too much starting pitching,\u201d is an old baseball truism, except it doesn\u2019t apply to the first two or three weeks of the season. When the 2025 Giants began their season roughly 70 years ago, they had too much starting pitching. They had so much starting pitching that it was going to force young players into unfamiliar roles, and some of those roles might not be ideal for their individual development. What else could the team do, though? It was a good problem to have.<\/p>\n<p>It doesn\u2019t take much for a team to go from that description to the September realities the Giants are facing. Here\u2019s what happened to the starting pitchers who were on the 40-man roster when the season started:<\/p>\n<p>Performed as expected<\/p>\n<p>\u2022 Logan Webb<br \/>\u2022 Robbie Ray<br \/>\u2022 Justin Verlander<\/p>\n<p>Traded<\/p>\n<p>\u2022 Kyle Harrison<\/p>\n<p>Hurt<\/p>\n<p>\u2022 Landen Roupp<br \/>\u2022 Keaton Winn<\/p>\n<p>Ineffective in majors but some success in minors<\/p>\n<p>\u2022 Carson Seymour<br \/>\u2022 Tristan Beck<\/p>\n<p>Ineffective in minors but some success in majors\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u2022 Trevor McDonald<\/p>\n<p>Ineffective in majors\u00a0and minors<\/p>\n<p>\u2022 Mason Black<br \/>\u2022 Carson Ragsdale<\/p>\n<p>Effective in majors until he wasn\u2019t, currently ineffective in minors \u2014 look, it\u2019s complicated (don\u2019t forget that his development was accelerated)<\/p>\n<p>\u2022 Hayden Birdsong<\/p>\n<p>Since then, the Giants have added Carson Whisenhunt to the 40-man roster, so feel free to add him to the \u201churt\u201d section. They\u2019ve also removed Ragsdale, who was claimed off waivers by the Baltimore Orioles (since lost to the Atlanta Braves), but Teng was added back to the roster as a nice, clean replacement for the \u201cineffective\u201d section.<\/p>\n<p>This is an extremely normal range of outcomes for a group of pitchers, especially if you further separate them into \u201cproven\u201d and \u201cunproven,\u201d with only Webb, Ray and Verlander in the proven category. Now you\u2019re left with young pitchers, and some of them will get hurt, become ineffective or both. That\u2019s what young pitchers will do, all right? I thought I was <a href=\"https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/athletic\/6230515\/2025\/03\/26\/sf-giants-2025-season-likeliest-outcome\/\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">being eminently reasonable<\/a> when I listed 11 homegrown pitchers and hoped three of them might be shoo-ins for the rotation next season. Turns out there will likely be just two shoo-ins, and one of them is Webb. And that\u2019s if Roupp sails through next spring as the shoo-in he appears to be.<\/p>\n<p>If this feels like a dog-bites-man story, that\u2019s because it is. Young pitchers are erratic, film at 11. But I\u2019m writing this for myself. I want something to read when I get the urge to write another article about a team\u2019s enviable pitching depth. Because, you see, this isn\u2019t the first time this has happened. Here\u2019s an incomplete list of pitchers I\u2019ve written about as depth, which means there was an unspoken assumption in my brain that all of them were just one hot month away from getting called up and becoming rotation mainstays:<\/p>\n<p>\u2022 Ryan Murphy<br \/>\u2022 Nick Swiney<br \/>\u2022 Nick Zwack<br \/>\u2022 Thomas Szapucki<br \/>\u2022 Shaun Anderson<br \/>\u2022 Matt Frisbee (no relation)<br \/>\u2022 Wil Jensen<br \/>\u2022 Ljay Newsome<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t remember some of them, either, but they were organizational depth at some point. I referenced Beck as an option \u2026 back in 2021. He\u2019ll still be trying to stick in the majors when the 2026 season starts. That\u2019s a perfect median example of what organizational depth can bring, if only because we still don\u2019t know. It sure is there. But is it helpful depth? Or, more importantly, is it helpful on demand?<\/p>\n<p>This is the season that clarifies the difference. The Giants started the season with an embarrassment of riches in the rotation, and they ended the season by trying not to get embarrassed by the rotation. There are extenuating circumstances and yeah-buts all over the place, but the facts are clear: The Giants\u2019 incredible preseason stockpile of starting pitching didn\u2019t help them make the postseason.<\/p>\n<p>Let\u2019s remember this in the future. And by \u201clet us,\u201d what I mean is that I\u2019m tying a piece of string around my pinkie, where it will remain until April 2045. It\u2019s there to remind me of the newly formed Theory of One Dozen Triple-A Pitchers, which goes like this:<\/p>\n<p>For every 10 minor-league pitchers with enough talent to start the season in a Triple-A rotation, between zero and one of them will actually help in the majors when they\u2019re called upon. Plan for zero.<\/p>\n<p>The Giants\u2019 success story out of the preseason bunch has been Roupp. He sports a 3.80 ERA, which is perfectly fine for a pitcher\u2019s first full major-league season, but that also includes a pair of blow-up starts (a combined 10 earned runs in 5 1\/3 innings). Before that, he was pitching exceptionally well, pitching into the sixth inning with some regularity. He should be a part of the rotation next year, assuming he looks just as effective in the Cactus League.<\/p>\n<p>And that\u2019s it. That\u2019s the success story out of the Triple-A depth. You can go back to earlier seasons and find the same thing, even when you\u2019re talking about top-100 prospects. The Giants got some success out of Birdsong in 2024, but successes from previous seasons are non-transferable. Birdsong will be a member of a similar glut of Triple-A-quality-or-higher pitchers next season, too. And possibly the season after that and the season after that. He might be the breakout star of one of them. He might be the one baby turtle that makes it to the sea, so to speak. Or he might slip further down the depth chart.<\/p>\n<p>The specific players aren\u2019t important. Just remember when you\u2019re looking at a vast catalog of potential major-league starters, you\u2019ll get help from exactly one of them \u2026 unless you get no help at all. Sometimes an organization\u2019s depth will give it a Chris Heston circa 2015, and sometimes it\u2019ll give it a Chris Heston circa 2016 and beyond. But it will give it a maximum of one success story for that season, with the definition of success being \u201cpretty OK or better.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>This isn\u2019t a breakup letter to the idea of building organizational depth \u2014 you still gotta try \u2014 but a breakup letter to the idea of looking at a roster early in the season and assuming a team will have the arms to make it through the rough patches. It will not have the arms. It will get one arm to help if it\u2019s lucky. That one arm can be Logan Webb in 2021, a pitcher with almost enough juice to carry the team to a pennant or championship, so this isn\u2019t an overly pessimistic theory of depth. It\u2019s just a realistic one.<\/p>\n<p>If the Giants want to prove me wrong by graduating an entire rotation of aces next season, they\u2019re welcome to do so. Until then, here\u2019s a way to keep your sanity during the long, long baseball season: Excited about the embarrassment of starting pitchers on the depth chart? Don\u2019t be. One of them might help.<\/p>\n<p>The rest you\u2019ll have to figure out on your own, on the fly, sometimes in a must-win series against your historic rivals. In some ways, it was the most predictable predicament in the world.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\">(Photo: Jayne Kamin-Oncea \/ Imagn Images)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"The season isn\u2019t over, so take this with a grain of salt, but the San Francisco Giants\u2019 season&hellip;\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":161761,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[558],"tags":[64,63,591,5157,85],"class_list":["post-161760","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-mlb","tag-au","tag-australia","tag-mlb","tag-san-francisco-giants","tag-sports"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/161760","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=161760"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/161760\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/161761"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=161760"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=161760"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/au\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=161760"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}