CLEVELAND, Ohio \u2014 When Austin Hedges takes his position behind the plate for the Guardians, he enters what former MLB umpire Dale Scott calls \u201cthe kill zone\u201d \u2013 a space where concussions aren\u2019t just possible, they\u2019re practically inevitable. On a recent Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast, Scott offered a rare, unfiltered look at the brain injuries that ended his 32-year umpiring career and forever changed his understanding of baseball\u2019s most serious hidden danger.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n
\u201cFor years, concussions were almost treated like a joke, right? Oh, you\u2019re seeing stars? Well, get some dirt on your shoes, kid, you\u2019ll be fine,\u201d Scott explained, describing baseball\u2019s outdated approach. \u201cWell, then we kind of realized, actually this is doing some damage.\u201d<\/p>\n
Scott\u2019s career ended after suffering five concussions in a four-year span \u2013 a statistic that sounds almost impossible until he explains the mechanics of what happens in \u201cthe kill zone.\u201d His insight reveals why catchers like Hedges are so vulnerable to these career-threatening injuries.<\/p>\n
\u201cIf you see the mask go flying off, it looks really dramatic. But actually in most cases, not all, that means the equipment is taking the hit more and absorbing the hit more than you are,\u201d Scott revealed. \u201cWhen you see the ball and it just drops, the ball drops, it doesn\u2019t fly off, that means you just absorbed it, you just took it all.\u201d<\/p>\n
Perhaps most frightening is Scott\u2019s description of how each concussion manifested differently \u2013 unpredictable symptoms that made diagnosis and recovery all the more challenging:<\/p>\n
\u201cI\u2019ve learned a lot about concussions. I\u2019ve learned that each one is different. You have different symptoms,\u201d Scott shared. \u201cOne time for the first week or so, light made me insane. I was in a cave… Second concussion that light had nothing to do with it. It was sound. When the dog would bark, I\u2019d go through the roof because it would just rattle me.\u201d<\/p>\n
The emotional impacts were equally destabilizing: \u201cThe last one I had, it was an emotional situation where it was like I was viewing a Hallmark commercial every day, all the time. I would get teary eyed. Then I would snap at somebody for no reason. I mean, you\u2019re just imbalanced. Your brain has been bruised basically.\u201d<\/p>\n
Scott\u2019s most important message comes as a warning to players, coaches, and fans who might minimize these injuries: \u201cThere\u2019s no slight concussion. You\u2019re either concussed or you\u2019re not. And the recovery period may be shorter for some and longer for others. But I hate the term \u2018Oh, it\u2019s just a slight concussion\u2019 because there is no slacking if you\u2019re concussed.\u201d<\/p>\n
This perspective carries particular weight as players like Hedges continue to battle through multiple concussions during their careers. The dangers of returning to action before full recovery are stark: \u201cIf you continue to work and then get another head blow where it\u2019s not twice as bad, it\u2019s exponentially worse, if you have not recovered from that first one.\u201d<\/p>\n
For anyone who loves baseball \u2013 whether you\u2019re a die-hard Guardians fan or simply appreciate the nuances of the game \u2013 Scott\u2019s full interview on the Cleveland Baseball Talk podcast offers rare, behind-the-scenes insights from someone who stood in the line of fire for over three decades. Listen to the complete episode to hear more about the hidden dangers that lurk behind every 95-mph fastball that gets tipped straight back.<\/p>\n
Podcast transcript<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Welcome back to the Cleveland Baseball Talk podcast. I\u2019m Joe Noga, joined by Paul Hoynes and our special guest Today umpired nearly 4,000 regular season games in Major League Baseball over a 32 year career. Included 91 postseason games and three World Series. His resume includes six League Championship Series assignments, 12 Division Series and three All Star games. For the first 14 years he worked in the American League and back when the umpires were divided, but then 17 more years covering both leagues. Ladies and gentlemen, Dale Scott. Thanks for coming on the show.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: Well, thanks for having me guys. I\u2019m glad to be here. And Cleveland was honestly say it was one of my favorite cities to go to.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: That\u2019s, that\u2019s great. Just a little more background for our listeners. Dale\u2019s very involved in the the Umps Care charities. Regularly appears on a podcast that he did with Jim Joyce. Another former umpire called in the umpires clubhouse. You can find that out there on YouTube and all other platforms talking about umpiring and baseball. And in 2022 he published his memoir, the Umpire is Out Calling the Game and Living My True Self, co written with Rob Nair. So welcome to our little corner of the podcast universe. Dale, it\u2019s great to have you here, but one of the reasons why we brought you in is to talk a little bit about Jack Efta, who recently passed away. He was the longtime umpires room manager at Progressive Field. Just tell us a little bit about your relationship with Jack.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: Yeah, yeah, Jack, you know every, every umpire clubhouse and every, you know, every team, every stadium, they, we have a, an attendant that takes care of our, they do our laundry, they, they, they have food before and after the game. They, they just, they\u2019re, they help us out so we can just focus on what we have to focus on as far as the games go. And, and actually Jack\u2019s dad John was the umpire clubhouse attendant. Had him at the, the old Municipal Stadium. And then when we moved, we, when the Indians moved to, you know, the new park, Jack took over and you know, that\u2019s the only, only an EFTA as far as in my whole career was, was the Cleveland umpire guy. And his dad John was, was a, was a sweet man and really nice man and Jack was, was one of a kind for sure. You know, Jack was a type of guy that very, how do you say it? Very compartmentalized. Right? I mean when you walked into the umpire clubhouse in Cleveland, you knew exactly where everything was. It was labeled and everything and you, there was no, there was no there and it wasn\u2019t a Huge locker room. So he. He used all the space that he had, you know, to get everything in there. But Jack, I. You know, one thing I remember about Jack is his passion for Cleveland, for sure. But, you know, Penn State was his.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Was his school.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: And so, you know, he lived and breathed the Penn State athletics. You know, he was passionate about. You know, of course, like I said, Cleveland and the Indians, you know, when. When that was going on, of course, they had such great success in the 90s and then selling out every year for however many years. That was in that new ballpark, which I love. That new ball. It\u2019s not new now, but it was. Yeah, but you know what? It still stands the test of time. I think they just did the lines on it and everything. I\u2019ve always thought they did a really good job with that ballpark. And I loved our room because it was right behind home plate. It was basically away from anybody. And we would enter and exit the field just right there. We had our own. We didn\u2019t have to go through any dugouts or down any tunnels or anything like that, which was always nice. Just a side note, too, by municipal stadium in 1992, I had my longest played job ever. It was their home opener against Boston. We went six and a half hours, 19 innings in that game. And I\u2019ll never forget that because you had about 80,000 people, home opener, and by the time it finished, There was about 12, I think, that had stayed for the six and a half hours. Jack, you know, Jack was just an interesting guy I loved. You know, a lot of times I stayed or. There were several years in. In the. In the. In the 90s, late 90s. A lot of times the crew I was working with, they stayed out by the airport. They were golfing every morning and stuff. And I stayed downtown. And so I\u2019d walk over to the ballpark. A lot of times I\u2019d get there, you know, several minutes earlier than. Than the rest of the crew. And Jack and I would just sit and BS and talk about whatever we were talking about and, you know, really got to know him that way. You know, he was also. He loved woodworking, and he would. A lot of the stuff in our clubhouse. He would. He has made, you know, and that kind of stuff. And I remember one year I was at home in Portland, Oregon, and in the mail comes, you know, a package from. From Jack. And what is this? Open it up. He had made a. It said Oregon Ducks. And it was like a key holder, you know, where you could put it on the wall and you know, put your keys on and that kind of stuff. And. And he said, you know, he knew I. He said, I. I wanted to make you something. He wasn\u2019t sure, but he said, but whatever I made, if it said Oregon Ducks, I\u2019m sure you would like it. So I said, you know me well, Jack. So. So, you know, I\u2019ve. I still have that in Portland, where I, you know, when I. When I see that, it reminds me of him. But he\u2019s just a unique guy. Jack was a unique. And he just loved what he did, and he did it well. It was funny one time, you know, it\u2019s not uncommon for our clubhouse to have little snacks here and there for guys, you know, before, after the game or whatever. And he had these little candies, different, little miniature ones, whatever. And I remember, you know, would see that all the time. And then one time I came in and all he had was Snickers.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Little.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: Little Snickers. I said, what. What happened to all your candies? He goes, well, he goes, you know, I figured, why get stuff that I don\u2019t even like? I\u2019m just gonna get the stuff I like, and I like stickers, and by God, that\u2019s what I\u2019m gonna get. Made sense to me. Yeah, Jack was. Jack was a great guy, and, you know, I always enjoyed my trips to Cleveland. You know, he. Like I said, very unique. Very unique guy, but. But somebody that you certainly remember.<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Dale, it\u2019s interesting that you said about Penn State, because, you know, I went to the wake on Sunday, and his sister had gone over to Jack\u2019s house, you know, to pick out some clothes for the showing. And he didn\u2019t have a suit. He didn\u2019t have a collared shirt. He didn\u2019t have a tie. So they. They put him in a. In a Penn State sweatsuit. That\u2019s perfect.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: That is perfect. The only. The only other thing that would have matched that is he. He was a Detroit Red Wings fan.<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Oh, yeah.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: Die Hard. And so I could. I could almost see, you know, for the show in a Penn State sweatshirt and a Red Wings hat. That. That would be. That would be Jack for sure. So, yeah, that\u2019s. And that. That was the thing about him. And I guess like most, you know, most sports fans, but he just was passionate about those teams and. And lived and died those teams. And. And it was always fun to see. I, you know, me being an Oregon Duck fan. They finally made the Rose bowl back in 1994 against Penn State, who was a. Basically an expansion NFL team with the personnel they had on that team. And my brother and I went to the, you know, for years, growing up as. As Duck fans, we just said, my brother\u2019s four years younger than me. We used to say, just in our lifetime, one time, please, just the Rosema, one time. We can make it one time. And we did. And then we came up against this juggernaut of, you know, the Nittany Lions that were just. I mean, Oregon took the kickoff, got a couple first downs, had to punt first. It was touchback. First play, 80 yards, touchdown. Okay, so that was fun.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Wasn\u2019t that, like, Kijana Carter and Lavar Arielson and Courtney Brown and all that, and Kerry Collins, like, it was like a ridiculously loaded Penn State team.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: That\u2019s why I say it was an NFL expansion. But that\u2019s what it seemed like. And, and, you know, that was early in Jacobs Field\u2019s history. And I, you know, but I remember Jack making sure he gave me a call before the Rose bowl just to, you know, you know, I hope you guys, you know, play well. But it was almost one of those, like, oh, you know, bless your heart, you\u2019re in the Rose.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Well, you know, and I want to wrap up our conversation about Jack just by saying I hope people understand what a guy like Jack and the services that he to the umpires just meant to the fabric of the game of baseball and how important he was.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: It\u2019s unbelievable. I mean, you have these unsung heroes in both locker rooms and then in the. In the umpires room that they keep the engine, you know, they keep the train running. You see the stars, and rightfully so, and they do their thing, and they\u2019re unbelievable. But to keep that thing on the tracks and everything, you\u2019ve got a lot of people in the background that work at the stadiums and, you know, load and unload, you know, when the. When the team comes back from a road trip and laundry, I mean, they do all that stuff that\u2019s not so glamorous, but by. By gosh, it needs to be done right, so. You\u2019re absolutely right. Jack filled that. That role for umpires, and there\u2019s many others that fill it for both the visiting and. And home teams in every stadium. And they\u2019re very important.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: So you talked about the convenience of when. When you were umpiring at Progressive Field, the umpire\u2019s room was behind home plate. Well, they\u2019ve. They\u2019ve gone. Undergone some expansions and some renovations, and now they\u2019ve moved to that umpire\u2019s room a little bit further down the tunnel. It\u2019s on the visitor side now and not as convenient maybe for you to get to.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: That\u2019s what I\u2019ve heard.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Yeah, that\u2019s a big change coming or that. That. That you would experience. But another big change coming in baseball is the automated ball strike system. And, you know, I. We\u2019re curious to hear from. From an umpire\u2019s perspective. You know, is there pushback about this, or is this something that the umpires have. Have sort of bought into now and they seen it coming, and it\u2019s just an. An inevitability. You know, what\u2019s. What\u2019s the feeling among umpires with. With this new system coming in?<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: Well, it\u2019s. It\u2019s kind of evolved. Like, you know, you can\u2019t fight city hall, you know, at first, when this was several years down the road and it was just, you know, the technology and everything was just starting to get fired up or whatever, and, you know, and I was still. I was still working, was toward the end of my. My career. But, you know, I. I think guys were, you know, were very. What\u2019s the word? Yeah. You know, they weren\u2019t so much sure about it, right? They weren\u2019t sure about how that\u2019s all gonna work out. You know, it was kind of like replay. When. When. When replay started up, we, you know, for the most part, we knew that it. We needed it. And the reason why I always tell this story. But we were in Philadelphia one day, there was a question of a hit. Was it. Was it. Was it a home run? Did it hit, you know, the fence and come because the ball came back in play, but, you know, did it hit? And was it a home run or did it hit the top of the wall? It happens, you know, obviously, very quickly, you at it. I\u2019m the crew chief. And. And we hit. We didn\u2019t have replay then. And I. And I get the guys to get together. Consultation. Now, you have to understand that both teams have seen the replay. They have monitors up their tunnels so they know what\u2019s going on. The fans in the concourse and everything, they\u2019ve. They\u2019ve seen the replays. They know what\u2019s going on. Everybody at home watching on television, they know what\u2019s going on. And the four guys that have to make the decision has no access to replay. And. And, you know, I get the four. Three other guys together, and I say, what do you got? I. I wasn\u2019t sure. What\u2019d you got? I had a home run. What\u2019d you have? I thought I hit the wall. I go, okay, all right. So I\u2019m sitting there Thinking, you know, we got to come up with something, right? And, and I, I thought it, I thought it was. Had hit the wall, but was convinced that, that it didn\u2019t and it was a home run and, and we were wrong. But the problem is that, you know, that right there kind of says, okay, what\u2019s wrong with this picture? You got the four guys that need to make that decision and are the only four guys in the universe haven\u2019t seen the replay and won\u2019t see a replay until after the game\u2019s over, right? So, you know, that doesn\u2019t make any sense. The other thing is, you know, with technology nowadays, you know, people are sitting home with 85 inch screens with a zillion pixels and you have super slow mo and everything else. You know, umpires, we\u2019re pretty good, but I don\u2019t think we\u2019ll ever beat technology, right. And I, and I and technology changes and gets better, it seems, seemingly every week, right. So when replay came along, we were pretty much in favor of it. However, we weren\u2019t quite sure what kind of a slippery slope this was going to be and how that was all going to play out. One thing I did say when I was asked about replay when it was coming, I said, if you think this is going to now just there will be no arguments and no controversy in baseball, you better think again, right? Because how many times have you seen one angle, this one angle that. I remember one time when we first had replay, there was a play at the plate, the camera angle was perfect for the play, except the picture was backing up and got right in the, in the line of the camera right when we needed to see what happened. So things happen, right? And so it\u2019s not going to be 100% perfect, but obviously it\u2019s going to correct obvious mistakes and it\u2019s going to help. And we saw in the World Series here just that seventh game, how unbelievable close. That play at the plate, the force out and that. I mean it, you know, it makes sense to have that now. You advance to the ABS system and you know, right now I think I talked to a lot of guys that are still working, friends of mine, and I\u2019ve kind of pulled them a little bit or just asked, you know, the attitude to it. And in the last few years, I think most of the staff has gone from, you know, not quite sure, not really wanting to deal with that, to, you know what, let\u2019s have at it. Because with the on screen strike zone, which is one of the worst things that ever happened to umpires, not because it shows a right or wrong. It\u2019s because it\u2019s not reliable, it\u2019s not a hundred percent, but it is gospel to anybody watching it, obviously. So it\u2019s gotten to the point where, you know what, let, let\u2019s go to this thing and, and, and maybe they\u2019ll yell at the machine instead of us. You know, again, umpires are good. If you look at the seven game World Series, I mean, we had played umpires, I mean, but you\u2019re going to have pitches that, you know, you\u2019re human, you\u2019re, you\u2019re, you\u2019re trying to call a three dimensional strike zone with a ball that\u2019s got a lot of movement and a lot of spin and a lot of, you know, velocity. And you have a catcher who\u2019s moving, you have a hitter that might be crouched. I mean, there\u2019s a lot of things going on in a real short amount of time. And then you have to, you know, come up with a, with, with the correct call. So guys are pretty good at that and it\u2019s a very, very skilled, very tough thing to do, but you\u2019re going to make mistakes.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: I thought Alan Porter was fantastic in game six.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: He unbelievable.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: He missed three calls. That\u2019s pretty good.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: It\u2019s pretty good. But you know what\u2019s funny Joe, is, is that, you know, I\u2019ve like, on social media or whatever I\u2019ve said in the past, like different, I think it was last year actually World Series, but there was a, there was a game and I guy, you know, missed one pitch or something. I said, hey, how about a little credit for, you know, Cause you always hear about it when they, there\u2019s a miss and somebody said, yeah, that\u2019s fine, but he wasn\u2019t perfect. Well, if that\u2019s the standard, I guess we lose, right? And frankly, neither are the players because they\u2019re human. Also, no one\u2019s perfect. And so I, I always joked when I talked to groups or something, they say, well, what do you think about Mr. Replay? Or what do you think? Or that. I said, well, humans make mistakes. I said, players make mistakes, managers make mistakes, and umpires. Now what we\u2019re getting to is nobody\u2019s trying to make a mistake. And obviously when an umpire walks on the field for a game, they, it\u2019s not going to think, well, I think I\u2019m going to only try to miss three pitches today. You know, I mean, that\u2019s not your mindset, right? You\u2019re trying to get everything right. But I\u2019d always say, but, you know, it\u2019s a human game played by humans. So if there\u2019s a bases loaded, one out, double play ball right to the shortstop and it goes right through his wickets, right? You don\u2019t say, after further review, he usually makes that play, we\u2019re going to give him a double play. You know, I mean, we don\u2019t do that, do we? Because the guy made an error, right? The thing about umpire errors is, is situational, right? If I miss a pitch with nobody on in the top of the second of a no score game, it may not even be talked about, it may not even be on anybody\u2019s radar and I miss that same pitch with the winning run on second and the ninth inning, I\u2019m getting crucified, right? It\u2019s the same pitch, it\u2019s the same miss, but it\u2019s situational. And that\u2019s as an umpire, you know, when you go out there, I always just hoped, you know, if I make a mistake, either bases or plate, I just hope it\u2019s not in a big situation because that\u2019s when you, you know, everything\u2019s intensified and that\u2019s when you get, you know, just crucified out there.<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Hey Dale, I was, I was looking, I saw one of the first or one in the early part of your career, one of the first guys managers you ejected was Billy Martin. And I was just wondering how managers behavior has changed over the years that you saw that, you know that a lot actually.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: You know, when I came into the American League in 1986, we had, you know, in that era we had Billy Martin. There was, Earl Weaver was just winding down his career, but I had him, you know, he, he retired and then came back one year and I, and I had him that, that one year he came back. You had Dick Williams, who could be one of the most sarcastic guys you ever heard of. It\u2019s changed a lot. You know, nowadays, nowadays you have a, you have a close play and it\u2019s not a guy running out to argue. It\u2019s. You see it is replay, replay. You know, it has changed now. You still get arguments. A lot of your, a lot of your ejections nowadays are on pitches or check swings, stuff that at this point you can\u2019t replay, right? And, and, and you still just, you still get ejections here and there just because, but, but it has changed a lot. I mean, you know, Billy Martin, that was my third year in the big leagues and you know, Billy was a fiery guy and, and that ended up. That ejection, which was memorial day in 1988 was the last time he was ejected. He came back after a Suspension, managed for a few weeks and then was fired and never managed again. Even though there was a long list of umpires that got him before me. I was the last one. The last one. And it wasn\u2019t even my call, crying out loud. But that\u2019s okay because, you know, I was the, the least experienced guy in the crew and, and they had a tendency to, to pick on those guys. You know, I had Sparky Anderson that, you know, he again, would use that same, they all, they all did that same model. The, the least experienced guy they\u2019re going to pick at and see how, you know, see what he\u2019s made of and see if they can intimidate you and, and, and then, and then go from there. But it\u2019s, it\u2019s changed a lot because it\u2019s much more, hate to say the word, but analytical. Right. I mean, everything is now replays, and just the way you manage a baseball game is so much different than that era. So, yeah, it\u2019s changed a lot and for the better. I don\u2019t know. The thing about replay is sometimes you hear, oh, it\u2019s taking too long, it\u2019s taking too long. Well, okay. They\u2019re the same people that were bitching about having replay. We got to have replay. We got to replay. And when we didn\u2019t have replay, we had arguments. Now, I would say arguments are much more entertaining than waiting for a yes or no from New York. Right. But you still have a, some kind of a delay. I just think that\u2019s maybe a little bit over the top, but you can\u2019t have it both ways. Either want replay or you don\u2019t. If you want replay, you\u2019re going to have to have some kind of a delay. Although to their credit, the delays are really much, much shorter because we\u2019ve streamlined it. We understand it in the operations center in New York and guys on the field that, you know, we can get that decision out much quicker. The times it\u2019s a little bit delays when, when you just. It\u2019s so tough to tell from different angles or if you\u2019re awarding runners or something. This is some type of play where you gotta kind of broaden out and see what\u2019s going on. But, but otherwise, I think it\u2019s, you know, it\u2019s pretty quick. Yeah.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: And the managers now there\u2019s so many catchers that are managers, and the catchers, for the most part, have pretty good relationships with the umpires. Yeah, I know. When, when Stephen Vogt was brought on here in Cleveland. Did you ever work games with Stephen Vogt behind the plate as A catcher. What were your impressions of him?<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: Yeah, yeah, Stephen, you know, Stephen was very cerebral, and I mean that in a good way, but. And you know, Stephen was always. I mean, you could. There is no shock whatsoever when you find out that Stephen was managing right, because you saw that, you know, when he was playing. You\u2019re exactly right, though, Joe, as far as, you know, your relationship with a catcher and umpires, it can. It can be a much, much longer day if few in the catcher don\u2019t get along very well. And there have been catchers throughout my career that. It just was, you know, you just grin and bear it because you knew what was coming. And then conversely, you have guys that, that will work with you, right? I mean, they end. You know, one thing about catchers, maybe some won\u2019t admit it, but I think most will. First of all, they. Their job is unbelievably tough. And I don\u2019t know why anybody would want to be a catcher, although I\u2019ve been told why would anybody want to be an umpire? But I think catchers also realize just how tough it is to call pitches, right? To call balls and strikes. And, you know, you have things that, that people don\u2019t realize. Again, not excuses, just reality. The time of day, the sun, how it\u2019s reflecting off the batter\u2019s eye. If you have any shadows, you know, all those things play into it where it\u2019s just, it can make for a. For a long day if, if it\u2019s tough to see the ball and, and that\u2019s the same thing for. To catch it and to hit it, you know, as far as that goes. So. But yeah, catchers, Stephen becoming a manager was not a shock at all. And I. And you could just tell that when, when I had him as a player.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: You had 90 ejections or so in your career. How many times you get Tito?<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: I got Tito in Boston in a ninth inning over balls and strikes. Dude, I love Tito. Some managers just don\u2019t, you know, they\u2019re just, it\u2019s like they\u2019re, you know, they don\u2019t have any milk for their cereal every day. But, you know, Tito, Tito, he was funny. I remember one time there was a situation, right, it was very early in the replay era, and I don\u2019t remember the circumstances, but I remember it went against Tito and he, he challenged and we went to, to New York and it was one of those things where nothing could overturn it. You know, it wasn\u2019t, it wasn\u2019t like clear cut, we got it right, but there was nothing there to overturn it. And so we tell Tito and Tito goes, no, no, no. You know, he starts to argue. He said, you know, you can\u2019t argue. You know, a replay, it\u2019s automatic ejection. He goes, oh, no, no. And I said, you know, Tito, I mean, for crying out loud, we did everything right. We got together, we talked about it. We, you know, we did today. He goes, oh, no, I agree, I agree. You did everything right. I mean, you guys got together, you did, you did everything right. The only thing you didn\u2019t do right is you. Blah, blah, blah, the call. Okay, bye, bye, Tito. But, but he, you know, if, if, if every manager was like Tito, this, this, this job would have been a lot easier, quite frankly.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Speaking of, you know, some of the things that make the job hard. I know concussions, eventually. What, what ended your career, I think in a four year span, you had five concussions and ended in 2017. You know, we\u2019ve got Austin Hedges is a catcher here in Cleveland and he\u2019s a great veteran, great leader and he\u2019s had series of concussions. He\u2019s missed, missed time. And just, you know, your thoughts on that and just how difficult it is to have the game taken away from you when it\u2019s something you don\u2019t really have any control over.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: Yeah. And it\u2019s a real thing. The thing is though, for years, concussions were almost treated like a joke, right? Oh, you seeing stars? Well, get some dirt on your shoes, kid, you\u2019ll be fine. You know, that kind of stuff. Well, then we kind of realized, actually this is, this is doing some damage. Right. And of course, the NFL is what really put this thing on, you know, on the fast track and baseball, to their credit, when they, when they were seeing what was happening with the NFL in the early 2000s and some of the stuff that was happening with their former players and this and that, they got very proactive with that and their concussion protocol and how they addressed head blows, obviously not just with umpires, but with any player, was accelerated to where they, it went from kind of a, ah, get some dirt on your shoes to hey, this is serious stuff and we need to make sure we understand it as best we can. And you know, at our meetings every year, you know, when I talk to groups and stuff, I say, hey, don\u2019t be a hero, don\u2019t be a hero. You know, if you\u2019re concussed, that\u2019s bad enough, but if you continue to work and then get another head blow where it\u2019s not twice as bad, it\u2019s exponentially as bad, if you have not recovered from that first one. So we learned that and we changed almost it seemed like overnight how we adjusted, addressed that. And unfortunately for me, I was in the wrong place at the right, wrong time. You know, we have a, in every ballpark and we get it every year at our, at our meetings. We have a. It\u2019s a color coded slide type thing where it shows green, blue, red and green, yellow, blue and red. And green is the umpire\u2019s positioning his head in the slot. And the slot is the area between the batter and the catcher where you\u2019re viewing the strike zone. But if you get too far over the catcher, toward the catcher, let\u2019s say it\u2019s a right handed hitter. If you get too far to your right and now you\u2019re over the catcher, that\u2019s, that\u2019s the kill zone, you know, up over the cat. Or if you, if you\u2019re being crowded by the catcher and the hitter is moving and you go all the way to the other side, that\u2019s the worst place you can be. Granted, you\u2019re seeing the pitch, but you are, like I said, in the kill zone. And you\u2019re gonna, you know, most foul balls, if you are in the green zone, will miss you. Not all. There\u2019s no place you can hide where it\u2019s, you know, foolproof that you\u2019re not gonna get hit. I think four of my concussions, I think three of them, I was in the green, one of them I was in the yellow. And. But if the, you know the ball\u2019s gonna find you if it wants to find you. And the, the unique one about mine concussions was three out of three out of four. They hit me in the chin. It was, it\u2019s a weird angle. A lot of times it\u2019ll hit up here, upper part of your mask, it\u2019ll glance off. If you see, if you see a, an umpire get hit with a foul ball or a pitch that wasn\u2019t caught, because that happens. If you see the mask go flying off, it looks really dramatic. But actually in most cases, not all. That means the equipment is taking the hit more and absorbing the hit more than you are. When you see the ball and it just drops, the ball drops, it doesn\u2019t fly off or the mass. And that means you just absorbed it, you just took it all. And you see the ones I had, the one was a glancing blow that actually hit the catcher enemy. But the other ones, it was basically shots in the chin area and the ball just dropped as did the. I mean, I just took the full effect and it\u2019s not fun. It\u2019s not fun. I\u2019ve learned a lot about concussions. I\u2019ve learned that each one is different. You have different symptoms. One time for the first week or so, light made me insane. I was in a cave. You know, I\u2019m back home. It just. Second concussion that had no, the light had nothing to do with. It was sound. When the dog would bark, I\u2019d go through the roof because it would just rattle me. The last one I had, I had an emot situation where I, it was like I was, you know, viewing a Hallmark card commercial every day, all the time. I would, I would just, I would, I would get teary eyed. Then I would snap at somebody for no reason. I mean, you know, you\u2019re just, you\u2019re imbalanced. Your, your, your, your brain has been bruised basically. And, and so I\u2019ve learned a lot. The other thing just to, just to add to. There\u2019s no slight concussion. You\u2019re either concussed or you\u2019re not. And the recovery period may be shorter for some and longer for others. But I hate the term. Oh, it\u2019s just a slight concussion because there is no slacking if you\u2019re concussed. You need to be healed from that before you put yourself in position that it might happen again. Otherwise, you\u2019re, you\u2019re asking for trouble.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Yeah. It\u2019s interesting that you, you say that each one is unique because it\u2019s the same sort of things, the same sort of language that, you know, when we talk to Austin Hedges about these things, you know, he, he says each one is unique and each recovery plan is different.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: Right.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: It\u2019s a, it\u2019s a, a big, big important thing that the umpires, catchers, basically everybody has to deal with. And it\u2019s something to, you know, keep our eyes on Hoinsey. Absolutely. We\u2019ve got about four more minutes here before we wrap up. So Hoinsey, if you got another question for Dale that we can go with some quick hits here.<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Dale, what, what was your, what was your best call? Do you have a call that you had that you got right that, that you know, really what. You walked away from the ballpark and you said, you know, I did my job tonight.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: Well, I was for, I was fortunate to have three World Series. My, the middle one I had was 2001, which was a classic. The home team won every game, win seven games. The Diamondbacks beat Mariano Rivera, came from behind in the bottom of the ninth. That highlight of the, the game winning hit was basically an infield fly. If the infield was Back, I mean, and I\u2019m in that highlight every time. Cause I was the second base umpire. So you just see me every, every time they show that. But in that series, I had game three, the first game at Yankee Stadium on the plate. That was the game that President Bush threw out. The first pitch. It was exactly eight weeks after 9, 11. It was 14 miles from the World Trade Center. The country was in shock still, certainly the city of New York was and that surrounding area, very emotional. World Series, I think it was in the fourth inning. There was a runner at second for the Yankees, two outs. It was a pop up in front of the, in front of the plate, very windy, kind of blistery evening. And Damian Miller was a catcher for the Diamondbacks. And he\u2019s, you know, trying to get under the ball and the ball comes down and it goes right, right by his glove and hits the ground maybe three feet fair. The spin on the ball. Then it took a right turn basically and went over the first base foul line. And then he picked it up. The question is, did it hit his glove or not? If it hit his glove, that\u2019s a fair ball. But if it didn\u2019t hit his glove and the first time it was touched, it\u2019s a foul ball, even though it traveled quite a ways and had landed, you know, way in fair territory. So anyway, I\u2019m watching this, Damian. You know, it goes by. I don\u2019t have it touching the glove, but it\u2019s close. I mean, it\u2019s really close. And through my, this all happens so quickly, obviously, but through my line of sight. Second base umpire was Jimmy Joyce. And he has the same angle I have, albeit farther away, but we\u2019re looking at the same angle. And our eyes caught each other for a split second like we both saw the same thing, right? The ball rolls, he picks it up. I call foul ball. Now the runner has scored. It was two out. So he\u2019s running right, he\u2019s scored. And that was, I think the tying run or something. And everybody\u2019s cheering and fans going crazy and I\u2019m calling foul ball. And Damian Miller and Mark Grace\u2019s first basement was charging up. They both looked at me like I had lost my mind. They both looked at me like, odale, I\u2019m glad you call a foul, but they\u2019re going to crucify you because they, you know, and, and, and I said, and Damien looks and he goes foul. I go, I go, damien, I said, the ball never touched you here. He goes, no. And I go, and this is the first time you touched it.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: It\u2019s right here.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: He goes, yeah. I go that\u2019s a foul ball. And you could see the light going. He goes, yeah, yeah, that\u2019s a foul ball.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: That\u2019s a great.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: That was a big play. My whole thought process after with all these cameras that Fox has for the World Series, I hope to goodness they have a shot that shows it missing it because even if they have one that you can\u2019t tell, bring on the conspiracy theories. But, but it did show that he just barely missed his glove and that was a pretty big time.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Yeah. Dale, tremendous. Thank you so much. We\u2019re under a minute here. It\u2019s going to cut us off. But I just wanted to thank you for sharing your thoughts about Jack, sharing your time with us and coming out and being a part of the show.<\/p>\n
Dale Scott: I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. Thank you guys.<\/p>\n
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