\n\tFor THR\u2018s Animation Roundtable<\/a>, the helmers of this awards<\/a> season\u2019s frontrunners \u2014 Arco director Ugo Bienvenu, Zootopia 2<\/a> co-director Jared Bush, Little Am\u00e9lie<\/a> co-director Liane-Cho Han, KPop Demon Hunters<\/a> co-director Maggie Kang, Elio co-director Domee Shi, and In Your Dreams co-director Alex Woo \u2014 talk originality, shifting audience expectation and why, for animation, \u201cnerd love\u201d is not only tolerated but required.<\/p>\n \n\tWhat makes a great animated filmmaker?<\/p>\n \n\tLIANE-CHO HAN\u00a0Patience.<\/p>\n \n\tMAGGIE KANG\u00a0You have to be a super collaborator. You have to have a lot of stamina because it takes a while to make these.<\/p>\n \n\tDOMEE SHI\u00a0You have to be slightly masochistic. It\u2019s a painful and long process and you have to love it. You have to love the pain and the payoff of watching one beautiful second of animation that you\u2019ve toiled for months over.<\/p>\n \n\tKANG Or years.<\/p>\n \n\tJARED BUSH\u00a0I think you have to also love evolving a story. At least for me, you\u2019re not coming in with a story that stays in the same place, but it\u2019s this constant evolution that\u2019s aided by all that collaborative help that you\u2019re getting.<\/p>\n \n\tUGO BIENVENU\u00a0Also, for me, it\u2019s about knowing every field of the work. It\u2019s good to know every part of the job so you can explain and help people work on it and find solutions.<\/p>\n \n\tKANG\u00a0You also have to spin a lot of plates at the same time. Sometimes it\u2019s, like, hundreds.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tBUSH\u00a0I think you also have to love animation. I mean, it seems like that\u2019s an obvious thing, but I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s the case for everybody. I think you actually have to love the medium in order to be a successful filmmaker.<\/p>\n \n\tALEX WOO\u00a0Yeah, I totally agree. I was going to say that I think you have to be a real nerd about animation. You have to know the history of it. You have to know the technique of it, the craft of it, to really take advantage of everything the medium has to offer because it\u2019s such an incredible medium. Having really deep nerd love for animation really helps when you\u2019re directing.<\/p>\n \n\tMaggie,\u00a0KPop Demon Hunters\u00a0has become a cultural phenomenon across music, film and animation. But you spent a long time developing the project before Netflix came on board. What kept you going all those years developing this original, untested idea?<\/p>\n \n\tKANG\u00a0Passion. I knew I wanted to see this movie, and that\u2019s the thing that really drove me the entire time. You\u2019re creating something out of nothing, which is, I think, the hardest thing to do as a human being. When you see it slowly come together and then you start to build a team that is helping you see this vision through, it just keeps fueling you no matter how hard it gets. You also don\u2019t want to let your team down that\u2019s putting all this love into something that you came up with.<\/p>\n \n\tUgo,\u00a0Arco is your first feature animation film. What was your personal connection to the story that made you want to take the leap?<\/p>\n \n\tBIENVENU\u00a0I\u2019ve been doing science fiction since 10 years, almost. And one day it appeared to me super clearly, \u201cOK, we\u2019re living in a bad science fiction movie.\u201d And I thought, \u201cIt\u2019s because mainly, we\u2019re always telling a bad future story,\u201d you know? And if we just imagine the worst, it\u2019s just going to happen, because human beings have the ability of bringing to the world their ideas. I think if we want better things to happen, we have to imagine them first. That\u2019s what gave me the will to do this movie.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t \t\t\t\t\tNeon\u2019s handcrafted dystopian hopeful Arco.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tRemebers \u2013 MountainA<\/p>\n \n\tJared, the world has changed a lot since the first\u00a0Zootopia. One of its core themes \u2014 diversity \u2014 has become politicized. Did that influence how you approached the sequel?<\/p>\n \n\tBUSH\u00a0It\u2019s interesting. I\u2019d say what we were really trying to do on the first film was to talk about human nature and how humans interact. Bias and stereotypes were major talking points, but those themes are evergreen. They would resonate 10, 20, 50 years ago and will into the future. For this story, we asked: How are we going to use these themes and evolve them so it feels like a continued conversation? We as humans make the same mistakes over and over \u2014 how do we talk about those?<\/p>\n \n\tLiane-Cho,\u00a0Little Am\u00e9lie\u00a0is a\u00a0really interesting story, about a\u00a0Belgian girl growing up in Japan, very much a cross-cultural story. What was the emotional core of the story for you?<\/p>\n \n\tHAN\u00a0It\u2019s an adaptation of a book, which is quite famous in France. I discovered the book when I was 19, so more than 20 years ago. I was not really a bookworm at the time, I was more into pop culture, Japanese animation, video games. But I was so moved when I read that book, moved by this unique case of this 2\u00bd-year-old Belgian girl born in Japan who believes she\u2019s God. What really moved me is the evolution of this girl from where she believes she\u2019s God until she has this disillusion and understands that you cannot control everything but\u00a0still love life. What really moved me was the relationship between Am\u00e9lie and [her family\u2019s Japanese housekeeper] Nishio-san.<\/p>\n \n\tDomee, with\u00a0Elio, you came in as a co-director, with Adrian Molina and Madeline Sharafian, on a film already in development. Was it a challenge to make it your own?<\/p>\n \n\tSHI\u00a0The original idea came from Adrian Molina, inspired by his childhood on a military base as the weird kid. When he stepped away for\u00a0Coco 2, Madeline Sharafian and I were brought on to finish the movie. Then, with the strikes, the release moved, giving us more time. At Pixar, we take every second to improve.<\/p>\n \n\tMaddie and I examined Elio and tried to infuse him with a drive we related to: a desire to be abducted by aliens, to find a place where you belong. That came from our lives as weird kids dreaming of going to animation school and finding our tribe of nerds. It turned the movie into a wish-fulfillment story and let us subvert sci-fi tropes \u2014 like making the abduction scene joyful instead of scary.<\/p>\n \n\tAlex, you worked for several years at Pixar before setting up your own company, Kuku Studios. Why did you decide to set your feature debut,\u00a0In Your Dreams,\u00a0in the dream world, and what was the key to cracking the story?\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tWOO\u00a0When we started our company in 2016, we spent a year dreaming up ideas we wanted to see. One was a dream-world animated movie. Everyone dreams across cultures and time, but nobody had done it yet. So it felt like a gold mine. But as we started developing, we quickly discovered why nobody had done it: Dreams make stakes hard. If anything can happen, nothing matters. So how do you give a dream movie stakes?\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tThe key that unlocked the idea for us was what if our kids, Stevie and Elliot [voiced by Jolie Hoang-Rappaport and Elias Janssen], found the Sandman [and] he could make their dreams come true. Suddenly there was a connection between dream world and real world. But we still needed the core story. I drew from my childhood. When I was like 6 or 7 years old, I woke up one morning and my mom had packed her bags. She left for a little while. It was really scary for me and my brother. At that moment, all I wanted was to find a way to keep my family together and keep it whole. I told that story to my team and they were like, \u201cThat\u2019s really juicy.\u201d The combination of this fantastic adventure in the dream world with this really intimate story about a kid just trying to keep her family whole gave us the movie.<\/p>\n \n\tJared, Domee \u2014 how open are the big studios to originals?<\/p>\n \n\tSHI\u00a0It\u2019s hard.\u00a0Elio\u00a0got massacred at the box office even though audiences who saw it loved it. The question is how to push original theatrical films through all the noise. I\u2019m hopeful, though. Maggie\u2019s film gives me hope.<\/p>\n \n\tKANG\u00a0When you pitch, marketing gets involved immediately. What helped my film was the marketability of K-pop. I took that, this marketable idea, and then thought: I\u2019m going to make the most Korean, personal movie I can out of what the world knows.<\/p>\n \n\tWOO\u00a0Studios want sequels because they\u2019re easier to market. With originals, you find a marketing hook. I think our marketing hook was dreams, that everybody dreams. I think that\u2019s what kept the studio excited.<\/p>\n \n\tBUSH\u00a0Sequels-only is not a long-term business plan. I think we all know that the studios that push originality are the ones that audiences remember. You need originals to surprise people. I don\u2019t know anybody that doesn\u2019t want to see something new, something that surprises them, because when you know this is going to happen and then this is going to happen, it\u2019s not that engaging. But when you can get an original story from a distinct cultural and personal perspective, or situational perspective, that can translate.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tKANG\u00a0And literally every IP was once an original.<\/p>\n \n\tUgo and Liane-Cho, you work in the European system, where the budgets are much lower for animation. But are there advantages creatively?<\/p>\n \n\tBIENVENU\u00a0At first you do limit yourself because you know you won\u2019t have the budget. But in the end you write whatever you want and [in France] you always have final cut. Which I know for U.S. filmmakers is a luxury. I built my own studio for this film so I could control everything \u2014 the craft, the writing, the production \u2014 and to protect the teams. There\u2019s less money, yes, but also less economic pressure.<\/p>\n \n\tHAN\u00a0We have public and private funding in our movie. It cost about 9\u00a0million euros [$10.4\u00a0million]. It takes longer to finance because you must convince many investors step\u00a0by\u00a0step. We faced challenges, because our book is for adults, but we wanted an intergenerational film. Everyone has an opinion about what kids can handle. It\u2019s always a battle. The taboo around themes in children\u2019s animation is huge even in Europe, where people say it\u2019s too tough, children are too fragile.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tMany of these films go places family animation rarely does. Domee,\u00a0Elio\u00a0uses almost horror themes. Was there pushback?<\/p>\n \n\tSHI\u00a0I remember [Pixar chief creative officer] Pete Docter being a little concerned about the alien abduction scene. \u201cIs that a little too intense?\u201d We assigned that scene to a talented story artist, Le Tang. It wasn\u2019t even fully scripted, just an outline, and Le knocked it out of the park in the first pass. We screened it, and everyone was laughing. Scared but in a fun way. So we kept going.<\/p>\n \n\tMaddie and I love sci-fi horror. We wanted a little John Carpenter, a little Ridley Scott. There\u2019s a default in our films to aim for laughs or tears, but there are so many more reactions \u2014 tension, anticipation, squeamishness, cringe.<\/p>\n \n\tWOO\u00a0That [alien abduction] scene was my favorite in the whole movie. The minute I saw it, I was like, \u201cThat is so Domee.\u201d<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t \t\t\t\t\tPixar\u2019s sci-fi\/horror mashup Elio and Netflix\u2019s dream-world family odyssey In Your Dreams.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tDisney\/Pixar; Courtesy of Netflix<\/p>\n \n\tAre certain topics still taboo in animation? Are there places studios won\u2019t go?<\/p>\n \n\tBUSH\u00a0Honestly, no. People talk about that a lot, but since I\u2019ve been here, I\u2019ve only heard people say, \u201cPush further.\u201d Audiences like being challenged. The puzzle is: How do you reach a broad audience without diluting anything? You want parts that appeal to adults, parts that appeal to kids. It doesn\u2019t mean every joke works everywhere \u2014 just that there\u2019s candy for everyone.<\/p>\n \n\tHAN\u00a0In our movie, we met taboos \u2014 especially around death. Our story deals with post-World War II Japan. It\u2019s a hard topic. But kids can understand more than we think. There\u2019s a scene where Am\u00e9lie asks, \u201cWhy do we die?\u201d That\u2019s something my own son asked. He\u2019s 6 years old. We didn\u2019t make death violent, but we didn\u2019t minimize it, either. We had to find the right balance.<\/p>\n \n\tBUSH\u00a0At the core, we\u2019re trying to make audiences feel something. Sometimes that means tackling difficult things.<\/p>\n \n\tKANG\u00a0Every time I took a risk where I asked myself, \u201cIs this too much?,\u201d it was always the right choice. If you feel fear, lean into it.<\/p>\n \n\tBIENVENU\u00a0Emotions are muscles. Stories help train those muscles so when real life happens, we don\u2019t fall. This is why I think culture, books, films, stories, are so important for humans. Because you exercise your soul.<\/p>\n \n\tHAN\u00a0A movie stays inside you because it left an emotional mark. That can shape who you become.<\/p>\n \n\tSHI No theme is taboo. It\u2019s about execution. It\u2019s not taboo to talk about grief, death, belonging, loneliness. It\u2019s about how you do it and what makes it interesting. I think animation can have fun with all these genres, like the horror genre. We\u2019re just scratching the surface.<\/p>\n \n\tDoes that freedom now extend to animation style? 3D is still dominant in the U.S., but the two European films here are 2D. Is there more openness now to different forms of animation?<\/p>\n \n\tWOO\u00a0I hope so. Anime\u2019s rise gives me hope. Young audiences don\u2019t see animation as a genre or as kids\u2019 content. They know it can be mature, emotional, violent, whatever. In the West it\u2019s slower, but it\u2019s changing. Look at [Netflix\u2019s adult animated show]\u00a0Blue Eye Samurai.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tKANG\u00a0Yes!<\/p>\n \n\tWOO\u00a0It gives me so much hope that a mainstream American animated show can look like that.<\/p>\n \n\tHAN\u00a0And we\u2019re the new parents. We grew up with all forms of animation \u2014 Japanese, French, American. So our kids will, too.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t \t\t\t\t\tNetflix\u2019s action-fantasy phenomenon KPop Demon Hunters, GKIDS\u2019 intimate cross-cultural childhood drama Little Am\u00e9lie and Disney\u2019s marquee franchise sequel Zootopia 2.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tCourtesy of Netflix; Maybe Movies, Ikki Films, 2 Minutes, France 3 Cin\u00e9ma, Puffin Pictures, 22D Music; Courtesy of Disney<\/p>\n \n\tJared, you\u2019re working in an established\u00a0Zootopia\u00a0universe. Was it tricky to push the style?<\/p>\n \n\tBUSH\u00a0Yes and no. I mean, obviously people want the characters to look like the characters. But for us, one of the most important things was to change the style in this movie so that we could try something new. We wanted something that felt much more noir, and we wanted to take advantage of what the story was \u2014 this is about these two characters who are figuring out their differences and compatibility. And that affected the visual language.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tWe\u2019ve seen the new Sora 2 model come out, and OpenAI is now saying they\u2019re backing an animated feature film that will cost $30\u00a0million and will deliver a $200\u00a0million-style animation. My question for all of you is: What are you afraid of, or hopeful for, in the use of AI in animation?\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tHAN\u00a0I don\u2019t know if this is the right answer, but when I was 20, my first animation teacher said to me: \u201cLiane, don\u2019t try to impress. Try to move people.\u201d AI is impressive. But I don\u2019t know if it can be moving.<\/p>\n \n\tBUSH\u00a0That\u2019s so well said. The thing I think is, human creativity is at the core of every movie. A movie is not one person voicing ideas into reality. It\u2019s 700 people bringing their experiences and their perspectives. Those 700 points of view, what makes something profound, can\u2019t be replaced.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tKANG\u00a0There\u2019s a reason why our animators act out every scene. They record a reference video so that they can get into the character, feel it, and then be able to put that into the characters themselves. They need to be able to feel it to represent it onscreen. I don\u2019t think AI can replicate that spark.<\/p>\n \n\tWOO\u00a0Maybe I\u2019m just being naive, but every time there\u2019s been some sort of technological innovation in the arts, there\u2019s always been a lot of fear around it. With CG [computer generation], people were like: \u201c2D is going to die.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tObviously there was a shift, but it\u2019s still around. My film\u2019s CG, but I hope there\u2019s a lot of humanness in it. My hope is AI develops\u00a0with\u00a0artists, not instead of them. Art comes through people. Humans have a connection to something beyond themselves. AI won\u2019t have that.<\/p>\n \n\tSHI\u00a0Art is imperfect. Art is spontaneous. Art is unexpected. When you\u2019re making a movie, you go down a path thinking something is wrong and discover it\u2019s gold.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tBUSH\u00a0I don\u2019t want AI to write my scripts for me. If I\u2019m writing a script and my dog barfs on the floor and I have to stop writing, I\u2019d like AI to come and clean up the barf so that I can continue to work on my stories.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tIf I can finish with a human question: What\u2019s the one cinematic moment \u2014 from childhood or from your own work \u2014 that has stayed in your body, something you still carry with you?<\/p>\n \n\tSHI\u00a0In\u00a0Spirited Away, when Chihiro receives a rice ball from Haku and she starts eating it and crying and Joe Hisaishi\u2019s piano music comes in \u2014 that makes me cry every single time. It\u2019s so cute and sad and sweet and you really feel her loneliness. It\u2019s a perfect\u00a0scene.<\/p>\n \n\tHAN\u00a0When I was 16, I discovered three movies. First\u00a0Princess Mononoke. I watched it 12 times in one week. The same year I discovered\u00a0Grave of the Fireflies. I spent an hour in my shower crying right after. Then I watched it five more times that week. And that same year I discovered\u00a0Rurouni Kenshin: Tsuiokuhen\u00a0[Rurouni Kenshin: Trust & Betrayal] \u2014 I think I watched it 50 times. At 16 you\u2019re immature but also trying to build your identity. Those three movies really changed the course of my life.<\/p>\n \n\tWOO\u00a0Grave of the Fireflies\u00a0was mine. That can of hard candy that she had \u2014 I used to have that as a kid. Seeing that in the film devastated me. I couldn\u2019t believe that movie was made. It\u2019s a war movie about two kids just trying to survive the horrors of war. And then\u00a0Iron Giant, the Superman moment when he goes up into the sky and takes the bomb \u2014 I was crying like a little baby. That stayed with me ever since.<\/p>\n \n\tBUSH\u00a0I saw\u00a0The Jungle Book\u00a0in theaters \u2014 the first movie I remember seeing in a theater. It was experiencing joy. There is something about bringing joy to the world that is so critical. Animation is uniquely suited for that. Watching that movie for the first time and seeing a friendship start \u2014 that really stuck with me.<\/p>\n \n\tKANG\u00a0When all the [Charlie] Chaplin films came out on DVD, my dad bought all of them and that\u2019s all we watched all week. The one that really impacted me was\u00a0City Lights. That last shot \u2014 just two close-ups of the blind girl, now no longer blind, and the tramp. Being able to feel all the emotions of these two characters in a silent film taught me so much about telling stories through pantomime and expression. Those two shots were one of my capsule moments \u2014 and that I shared it with my dad.<\/p>\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/www.hollywoodreporter.com\/wp-content\/themes\/vip\/pmc-hollywoodreporter-2021\/assets\/public\/lazyload-fallback.gif\")
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