are now out<\/a>.<\/p>\nLet\u2019s start at the very top, though, Corey, because \u2026 one of the most interesting things we can say about this list is how much you putting Macklin Celebrini at No. 1 over Connor Bedard does not feel controversial, which a year ago would not have been the case.<\/p>\n
Pronman: Well, I haven\u2019t asked fans in Chicago how they felt about that particularly, but when we did a pre-show survey, I don\u2019t think I even sensed there was any angst among this group, right?\u00a0 It kind of feels like we all universally feel Celebrini\u2019s the best young player in hockey right now.<\/p>\n
Peters: Yeah. It was kind of funny. We were going around, and we were just like, \u201cYeah, no, I\u2019ve got nothing to say there.\u201d I mean, you look at the ceiling of (Connor) Bedard and the potential of him becoming a perennial 50\u2011goal scorer \u2014 we\u2019re still feeling very far away from that player at this point, whereas Celebrini walks in and suddenly you\u2019ve got one of the better two\u2011way centers at his age and then soon, I think, he\u2019ll be one of the better two\u2011way centers in the game, period.<\/p>\n
Bultman: To that point, right: when I watched Celebrini, I noticed him off the puck a ton \u2014 consistently going into battles, coming out with pucks against players who are already stars in this league. Bedard, whenever I\u2019ve watched him, he can still make some magic out there, but you\u2019re mainly noticing him on scoring\u2011type plays. And when he didn\u2019t outscore Celebrini by a wide margin, that gives Celebrini, to me, a really clear edge.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n
Carlsson vs. Fantilli<\/p>\n
Bultman: All right, let\u2019s go to the No. 2 thing on your list that I think is very interesting. We\u2019re talking about a couple of centers who went right behind Connor Bedard. You have Leo Carlsson over Adam Fantilli, Corey. I want to hear from Scott first. What do you think about that at this stage? Because these two have kind of jockeyed since the 2023 draft, really.<\/p>\n
Wheeler: Adam Fantilli had a better season. He scored 31 goals in the league last year and took a big step; he was one of the very best young players in the league. And I still think we\u2019re waiting to see that consistently from Leo. If I were ranking them, I\u2019d slot Fantilli ahead of Carlsson. But I will say, I\u2019m in the midst of doing my prospect tiers project \u2014 which is kind of a follow\u2011up to Corey\u2019s, in a way \u2014 where I poll NHL scouts. And probably the player that people vouched for the most, in terms of slotting Leo Carlsson in a really, really high tier, was Carlsson. NHL scouts feel the same way that Corey does: that Carlsson is at least on par with Fantilli, if not ahead of him. They really believe he\u2019s a better, more natural playmaker, and he\u2019s got that cerebral quality that Adam maybe lacks.<\/p>\n
I think Adam \u2014 and just the power that he plays with, the quick twitch, the skating, the presence \u2014 he\u2019s just going to be so much for teams to handle. I haven\u2019t seen that sort of presence and imposition from Carlsson. But I can understand this one from Corey\u2019s point of view, in terms of the belief that exists that Leo\u2019s going to pop at some point with his playmaking and his ability to read the game. And that\u2019s never really been Fantilli\u2019s strength \u2014 he\u2019s always been more of an instinctual, go\u2011getter type of player.<\/p>\n
Peters: When you look at Corey\u2019s evals and say, \u201cOK, what separated them?\u201d I think hockey sense, Corey, would you say it came down to that as a separating factor between the two players?<\/p>\n
Pronman: That\u2019s definitely the thing that Carlsson has over Fantilli. Scott articulated the arguments perfectly. They\u2019re basically neck\u2011and\u2011neck; I\u2019m not offended if you went the other way.<\/p>\n
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For some, the Ducks\u2019 Leo Carlsson edges out fellow 2023 first-rounder Adam Fantilli. (Bruce Bennett \/ Getty Images)<\/p>\n
Peters: Yeah, and then I would say the other way, the way Fantilli plays pops more in terms of the compete level and the different things that he does. The power, as Scott mentioned, is key. I prefer his skating a bit as well \u2014 it\u2019s not a huge thing, but still. In terms of what we saw from Fantilli last season, I think that\u2019s indicative of where he\u2019s going. I still don\u2019t have a great feel for where Leo Carlsson is going. The upside is there. I don\u2019t know if he\u2019s figured out what he\u2019s supposed to be as an NHL player yet, whereas I think Fantilli has always known that and hasn\u2019t pretended to be the cerebral hockey player; he\u2019s much more in your face. So I agree that the hockey sense is a separating factor, but I haven\u2019t yet watched a game of Leo\u2019s and come away feeling like I had a tremendous sense of what he ultimately is going to be.<\/p>\n
Bultman: My question comes down to this one, Corey: throughout these rankings \u2014 and we\u2019ll probably talk about this when we get to the defensemen \u2014 I know you place a certain emphasis on how these players are going to translate to playoff hockey. With Fantilli, those traits Chris talked about are loud playoff\u2011style traits. Given that it\u2019s close, and we\u2019re talking about guys 3 and 4 in the same tier on your list, is that still just a matter of projection where you think in those kinds of games it\u2019s coming for Leo when he\u2019s 25, 26? How do you square that?<\/p>\n
Pronman: I still think Leo\u2019s going to be a really impactful playoff\u2011style player. I know he doesn\u2019t have the physicality that Fantilli does, but this is a 6\u20113 center who can move. He\u2019s not overly physical, but he can get to the interior parts of the ice to create offense. I think he\u2019s going to be more than fine in the playoffs. As he continues to develop and gain strength, I think his talent is off the charts \u2014 skill and hockey sense to go with the size and good\u2011enough feet, even if it\u2019s not Fantilli\u2019s quick twitch. The sky\u2019s the limit for him.<\/p>\n
Michkov vs. Demidov<\/p>\n
Bultman: Let\u2019s stick with the head\u2011to\u2011head theme and move to another set of prospects. These two aren\u2019t quite in the same vein \u2014 they\u2019re not consecutive No. 1 picks like Celebrini and Bedard or back\u2011to\u2011back in the same class like Fantilli and Carlsson \u2014 but Matvei Michkov and Ivan Demidov have kind of been linked as the two premier Russian wingers in consecutive drafts. You\u2019ve got Michkov a couple spots ahead of Demidov, still within the same tier. How did you go about comparing these two, especially when we got such a little glimpse of Demidov at the end of the year?<\/p>\n
Pronman: They\u2019re close. Again, a couple spots apart and in the same tier. There are distinctions in how they play. Michkov\u2019s, I think, a smarter, more creative player \u2014 which isn\u2019t taking away from Demidov, who has off\u2011the\u2011charts creativity. Michkov is one of the five or six smartest players up front that I\u2019ve seen in terms of his offensive instincts and creativity. Demidov\u2019s bigger, harder \u2014 those are real differences.<\/p>\n
Michkov did it in the NHL this year. When we were watching him coming up in the KHL, we wondered, \u201cOK, 5\u20119\/5\u201110 winger, not super fast, not super physical \u2014 how does this translate?\u201d And it translated. Will it translate into 90\u2011 or 100\u2011point years? Time will tell. But he showed he can play his unique way, and it worked in the NHL, and that\u2019s valuable information. We\u2019ll see how Demidov does in his first year. I love the player; he\u2019s super skilled and super competitive. I think he\u2019s a below\u2011average skater, and that\u2019s kind of the same profile I had on Alexis Lafreni\u00e8re, for example. I think Demidov will be much better than that, but until you get it done in the NHL \u2014 at the end of the day, that\u2019s what matters, right?<\/p>\n
We did a pre\u2011show survey as well. I don\u2019t think I got much pushback on this, even though I know I\u2019m surrounded by major Demidov fans.<\/p>\n
Peters: That\u2019s super fair. Basically, it comes down to the same reason that you did: the overall creativity and uniqueness of Michkov\u2019s hockey sense is the one thing that could potentially carry him into being a special\u2011tier player over time \u2014 even against an outstanding player like Demidov. Maybe they both end up that way. And while there is maybe a larger perceived gap in numbers \u2014 like No. 6 vs. No. 10 \u2014 I think we\u2019d all agree there isn\u2019t a lot of separation. You\u2019re splitting hairs, even if it looks different on the page.<\/p>\n
The Canadiens trio: Slafkovsk\u00fd, Demidov, Hudson<\/p>\n
Bultman: The order that you have the top Canadiens guys here, I think, is going to be interesting to discuss. You have Juraj Slafkovsk\u00fd at seven, a few spots ahead of Demidov at 10, and then a decent little gap down to Lane Hutson. Hutson\u2019s still very high up there \u2014 he\u2019s right up there with Beckett Sennecke, Anton Silayev, Carter Yakemchuk and Zayne Parekh, all D that went really high. He\u2019s not super far down this list, but he is behind Slafkovsk\u00fd and Demidov by a decent margin. Scott, what\u2019s your first take on that?<\/p>\n
Wheeler: That, to me \u2014 more than the Demidov\u2011Michkov debate \u2014 was what struck me. Immediately scrolling through the list, those three Montreal guys are such talked\u2011about names that I was curious to see where they\u2019d land. I would have it probably the inverse. I\u2019d certainly have Slafkovsk\u00fd three, and I would have Demidov and Hutson both ahead of him. But I certainly don\u2019t see a gap between where Demidov and Slafkovsk\u00fd are in the top 10 and where Hutson is at 34. That\u2019s just not indicative of the way I\u2019ve read Lane Hutson over the last little bit.<\/p>\n
I think I counted the defensemen \u2014 Hutson was 10th amongst the U23 defensemen here, coming off a Calder \u2026 coming off not just a Calder, but a historic offensive season in the NHL for a rookie defenseman that age. I don\u2019t think we are going to get to Cale Makar and Quinn Hughes in terms of the conversation about Lane because I don\u2019t think he\u2019s ever going to have that level of defense. But I think he is going to be a pretty singular offensive talent in the league, and I don\u2019t think there are 33 U23 players who fit that description. So the Hutson one was the one I had a bit of a tough time with.<\/p>\n
I\u2019m also a little surprised at how high Corey is on Slafkovsk\u00fd. He\u2019s had two 50\u2011point seasons in the NHL and been a very good player. He has also played with very good linemates, especially last year when he basically played exclusively on that top line. I still haven\u2019t seen (Mikko) Rantanen \u2014 or that sort of premier power winger \u2014 in the NHL out of Slafkovsk\u00fd yet.<\/p>\n
Bultman: In fairness, I think Mikko Rantanen was like a 40\u2011point player at the age Slafkovsk\u00fd was last year. So statistically, he would be a little bit ahead of where even Mikko was. I\u2019m not saying he\u2019s Rantanen either. I\u2019m just saying Slafkovsk\u00fd is so young at 21 that the projection can still do a lot of work there. Chris, what was your first take on how the three Montreal guys were ordered?<\/p>\n
Peters: I was a little surprised at Slafkovsk\u00fd\u2019s spot. We\u2019d had plenty of discussions about him dating back to his draft year, and I\u2019ve never been particularly high on him relative to some other guys. But to your point, Max, two 50\u2011point seasons at 20 or younger is significant. It\u2019s a good sign of where things are going. I just feel like he\u2019s getting closer to his ceiling than a guy like Demidov, who I feel has a higher overall ceiling.<\/p>\n
The question is, is Slafkovsk\u00fd going to become that power guy, one of those players able to impact the game in a variety of ways? I haven\u2019t necessarily seen that yet. I\u2019ve been very high on Lane Hutson and probably would have had him second among the Canadiens guys, with Slafkovsky third. Again, I don\u2019t think it\u2019s a huge gap. The good news, if you\u2019re a Montreal fan, is you have all three of them.<\/p>\n
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Where is Juraj Slafkovsk\u00fd\u2019s ceiling with the Canadiens? (Michael Reaves \/ Getty Images)<\/p>\n
Bultman: It\u2019s a great system. When Corey and I did those pipeline episodes, Scott, one of the things I said is I can understand Slafkovsk\u00fd atop that list, especially relative to Hutson, because I look at the projection on a 6\u20113 guy with potentially point\u2011per\u2011game offense, which is what I think Slafkovsk\u00fd could be. I\u2019m not saying he\u2019s a 100\u2011point guy like Rantanen, but if he\u2019s an 80\u2011point guy with that size and physicality, that\u2019s harder to find than a really, really good offensive defenseman. I think Hutson is a really, really good offensive defenseman, but it sounds like you disagree.<\/p>\n
Wheeler: I think Hutson is a level above a really, really good offensive defenseman. I think of Slafkovsk\u00fd as J.T. Miller, Kirill Marchenko \u2014 that sort of 70\u2011point winger. I think of Hutson as a transcendent offensive defenseman in the league. That isn\u2019t to say he\u2019s the all\u2011around impact of a Makar\/Hughes\/(Charlie) McAvoy or the true top 5-10 defenseman. But could he have a season akin to what Erik Karlsson had once or twice? Could Lane Hutson put up 80 or 90 points in a season? I think that\u2019s absolutely within the realm of possibility based on his offensive impact in the NHL last year. And he\u2019s already, on top of that, playing 25 minutes a night.<\/p>\n
Bultman: What would the offensive gap have to be between Hutson and Slafkovsk\u00fd for you to prefer Hutson? Because if Hutson puts up the same number of points as Slafkovsk\u00fd, I\u2019d rather have Slafkovsk\u00fd for all those physical elements I talked about. What would the gap have to be?<\/p>\n
Wheeler: Even if the gap is close, I still think it\u2019s much harder to find a defenseman to run your PP1, coordinate much of your offense and play 25 minutes a night than it is to find a 17\u201319 minute a night winger who is one of the better power forwards in the league.<\/p>\n
Bultman: If I read you, this \u2014 without spending too much time \u2014 but if Makar and Hughes are in a class of their own, would you have \u2026 (Zach) Werenski, (Rasmus) Dahlin, (Evan) Bouchard, (Victor) Hedman, (Josh) Morrissey, (Adam) Fox, Karlsson (aging out), Thomas Harley, Shayne Gostisbehere \u2014 I don\u2019t think Gostisbehere is going to put up quite the offense Hutson is, maybe that\u2019s the line. That\u2019s a solid 10 guys already, and that\u2019s before the more complete guys like McAvoy, (Jake) Sanderson, (Miro) Heiskanen, maybe Harley again. I just don\u2019t know that it\u2019s as rare as we\u2019re building it up to be.<\/p>\n
Wheeler: On the other side, you could go Adam Fantilli, Mark Scheifele, J.T. Miller, Matthew Knies. There are tons of very good power forwards. Would you rather have one of those high\u2011end defensemen who\u2019s contributing for almost half the minutes in a 60\u2011minute game and driving your offense on the power play, or that really good power forward? You\u2019re taking most of those defensemen over the Millers\/Scheifeles.<\/p>\n
Pronman: A difficulty with projecting a guy like Hutson is: if you start from a 6\u20111\/6\u20112 defenseman \u2014 when we start projecting draft-eligibles Carson Carels, Daxon Rudolph, Keaton Verhoeff into the NHL \u2014 you can go into a database and find 30 guys you feel like he could be. When you start from a 5\u20119\/5\u201110 defenseman, the list is like three guys in the league. You may not find a perfect analogy to one of those three. I don\u2019t think Lane Hutson is Quinn Hughes, he\u2019s not Jared Spurgeon, he\u2019s not Samuel Girard \u2014 he\u2019s different. Going back five, 10, 15 years \u2014 who is the player you think he\u2019s closest to when it\u2019s all said and done?<\/p>\n
Wheeler: There isn\u2019t one. And when those guys come along, you have to recognize that he is different. Even if there isn\u2019t a track record of success for that type, he isn\u2019t Girard\/(Olen) Zellweger\/(Axel) Sandin Pelikka. He just isn\u2019t.<\/p>\n
Pronman: The name I thought of has been Adam Fox. Does Adam Fox offend you?<\/p>\n
Wheeler: Not at all.<\/p>\n
Pronman: Part B of the question is, how good is Adam Fox? Is he a top\u201110 defenseman in the league?<\/p>\n
Wheeler: Yes, he has finished top five in Norris voting in four of the last five seasons.<\/p>\n
Pronman: But people vote based on points; they don\u2019t always vote on who\u2019s actually the best all\u2011around.<\/p>\n
Wheeler: I think Adam Fox is comfortably one of the 10 best defensemen in the league.<\/p>\n
Peters: Getting back to Hutson, because we could go down an Adam Fox rabbit hole: in our evaluations, we have to allow for players to be somewhat singular or unprecedented. He isn\u2019t completely without precedent, but there really haven\u2019t been a lot of defensemen who impact the game quite like him. People always asked me who I\u2019d compare him to, and I said I don\u2019t have a defenseman \u2014 I think he\u2019s Johnny Gaudreau as a defenseman. High\u2011end puck skills, deception; he plays the game differently. We know how playoff hockey looks, and we\u2019ll see how his game translates to that. But are we completely positive that the NHL game of today is going to look the same? Will it shift a little more toward this kind of more positionless, all\u2011over\u2011the\u2011place, more offensive approach? If it works, Hutson could be a trend-setter.<\/p>\n
Wheeler: I don\u2019t think Hutson has to be one of the 10 best defensemen in the NHL if Slafkovsk\u00fd doesn\u2019t become one of the five or 10 best wingers. Ultimately, you\u2019re taking the defenseman over the winger.<\/p>\n
Pronamn: I was going to argue Fox wasn\u2019t a top\u201115 defenseman \u2014 I was going to keep going \u2014 but we stopped there.<\/p>\n
Bultman: Then we can piss off two massive fan bases in one episode. Let\u2019s stick on defense.<\/p>\n
The 2024 defense class ordering<\/p>\n
Bultman: The 2024 defense class \u2014 one of the most interesting blue\u2011line crops in my time covering the NHL, just in the volume and caliber of defensemen. Corey, at the time of the draft, you had Artyom Levshunov No. 1 among D, but you also had Zeev (Buium) really high. So Zeev supplanting Levshunov isn\u2019t a huge surprise. What\u2019s more interesting is that Sam Dickinson has elevated himself above Levshunov, and that Carter Yakemchuk has kind of fallen back to the pack in that group.<\/p>\n
Pronman: Yeah, I mean Dickinson was just outstanding last year. In his draft year, there were hockey\u2011sense questions, and I think there still are minor ones, but in his draft year, you\u2019re like, \u201cHoly hell, this guy makes one or two major mistakes every game. Can he move a puck in the NHL? Can you trust him?\u201d To now: yeah, he makes one or two big mistakes \u2014 but he plays 35 minutes a night, so by odds that\u2019s going to happen at some point. He seems to be able to move the puck confidently enough, make enough plays and not hurt his team on enough of a basis \u2014 to go with the talent and competitiveness \u2014 that you\u2019re like, \u201cJeez, this guy\u2019s going to play a ton of minutes in the NHL.\u201d<\/p>\n
You think of like a Noah Hanifin\u2011plus type of profile. That\u2019s what you\u2019re hoping for with Dickinson. I kind of expect him to potentially push to be on the Sharks right away this year.<\/p>\n
Bones to pick: Individual players<\/p>\n
Bultman: We\u2019re going to really drill down on individual players. We\u2019ve done some head\u2011to\u2011head debates and themes, but we\u2019ve each got a bone or two to pick with Corey. Scott, why don\u2019t you take the first? Lane Hutson\u2019s off the table \u2014 we talked about him enough. Who\u2019s next?<\/p>\n
Wheeler: The first name when I was scrolling through \u2014 the very first that leapt out at me \u2014 was Frank Nazar\u2019s. I know Corey\u2019s typically been lower on Nazar over the years, but if Frank looks like the player we saw at men\u2019s worlds and in the last 15 or so games of the season with the Blackhawks \u2014 if he looks like that player for, let\u2019s say, 70 of 82 games this year and is consistently that player more nights than not \u2014 then we\u2019re not talking about a player who belongs in the 40s on a U23 list. He\u2019s already been paid in the NHL now: a pretty unique contract with just 50\u2011something games.<\/p>\n
There\u2019s a lot of juice in Frank. I think he\u2019s going to be a top\u2011six player in the league for the next long while, center or wing. And he has a chance, based on what we saw. I thought he looked every bit as impactful as Clayton Keller, for example. He was one of their very best players at men\u2019s worlds. That really opened my eyes, especially after he finished the year \u2014 whatever it was \u2014 12 points in 12 games to close it out with the Blackhawks. There isn\u2019t a ton of precedent with the 5\u20119\/5\u201110 types, but I think he\u2019s a top\u2011six-type talent. There are guys ahead of him on Corey\u2019s list that I don\u2019t think have a chance to do that. To the point we talked about with Michkov earlier, we\u2019ve seen it with Nazar; we haven\u2019t seen it over a full season, but we\u2019ve seen 20 or so excellent NHL games, plus a men\u2019s worlds where he quickly rose up the lineup and was extremely productive.<\/p>\n
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Frank Nazar had an excellent World Championship with Team USA this spring. (Michael Campanella \/ Getty Images)<\/p>\n
Pronman: You mentioned the sample size in the NHL, and that\u2019s a variable for me. Watching him as an amateur, I didn\u2019t think he had high, high\u2011end offense \u2014 I always thought he was a speed\u2011and\u2011energy\u2011based guy. He had a fantastic year between the AHL, the NHL, the worlds \u2014 huge year. But it\u2019s a small sample in the NHL. He gets a tremendous contract from Chicago. I agree, he\u2019s going to be a top\u2011six center in the league. But what if Anaheim had paid Pavel Mintyukov last summer? What if Buffalo had paid Jack Quinn based on his one big year? Think of Simon Nemec getting paid right after his first 20 games or so in New Jersey. You want more data.<\/p>\n
With Michkov, it wasn\u2019t just that he did it in the NHL \u2014 he\u2019d been doing it at a high level for so long. Here, did it translate over a full year in the NHL? That\u2019s more significant. I\u2019d want to see it over a longer sample. But your point holds: if he even comes close to replicating what he did this year and backs it up in the NHL, he\u2019ll be right in the top tiers.<\/p>\n
Wheeler: To that point, you\u2019ve got William Eklund and Logan Stankoven \u2014 two 5\u20118 to 5\u201111 wingers \u2014 ten spots ahead of Frank Nazar on your list.<\/p>\n
Pronman: Stankoven has done it in pro hockey for quite a few years now and has a history of high\u2011end offense. Eklund\u2019s a tremendous skater \u2014 really high\u2011end \u2014 and he\u2019s been productive versus men at a young age and has always rated highly. With Nazar, my issue isn\u2019t that he wasn\u2019t really, really good this year \u2014 it\u2019s that I\u2019ve never been blown away by his hockey sense\/creativity\/playmaking to the point where, as a 5\u201110 guy, he\u2019s going to be a top\u2011line player. I need more information to suggest he\u2019s actually this player. I\u2019m guessing that\u2019s not the case for you \u2014 and it wasn\u2019t the case for Chicago, hence where he went in the draft for them.<\/p>\n
Peters: One I find interesting \u2014 and Corey, you\u2019ve always been a little higher on him, but I was surprised he wasn\u2019t higher here \u2014 is Nate Danielson at 42. He\u2019s an interesting player. I don\u2019t have a problem with where he\u2019s at; it\u2019s more about who\u2019s around him. He\u2019s ahead of Nazar here \u2014 which I did find interesting \u2014 and ahead of some other guys I figured you\u2019d like.<\/p>\n
Pronman: When we do this update in six months, we need a rule: no more Hutson, Nazar or Danielson conversation. We have to pick somebody else.<\/p>\n
Peters: Then let\u2019s talk about Cole Hutson \u2014 kidding. I\u2019m still trying to figure out (Danielson) the player. Corey, in terms of a top\u201150 prospect and where he landed, what are the things you\u2019re seeing from him? I just haven\u2019t seen it yet.<\/p>\n
Pronman: One of the youngest players in the AHL last year, one of Grand Rapids\u2019 better players, one of their better players in the playoffs. 6\u20112, right\u2011shot center who can skate, has legit skill, plays both special teams, works hard. A lot of traits. I know the skill isn\u2019t eye\u2011popping, but it\u2019s good skill \u2014 legit skill. I think it\u2019s second\u2011power\u2011play skill in the NHL \u2014 maybe bumper\/net\u2011front type. He has a lot of traits that will translate and will lead to him being a highly effective NHL center for a long time. It\u2019s hard to see him miss, frankly. He checks every box, and some with emphasis. Really natural skater, natural puck handler. He can break shifts open with his puck handling at times. The pace he plays at \u2014 he just feels like a really good hockey player. I don\u2019t know what to say other than he doesn\u2019t meet some people\u2019s ideal statistical profile.<\/p>\n
But every time I watch him \u2014 well, that\u2019s the question I have, and I\u2019m sure Max feels the same way because he\u2019s watching a bunch \u2014 it feels like every time you watch him, he\u2019s one of the most impactful players on the ice, right?<\/p>\n
Bultman: Yes. And then you look at the score sheet and it\u2019s, you know, one assist or no assist.<\/p>\n
Peters: What\u2019s a reasonable expectation?<\/p>\n
Pronman: I think 45-55 points with penalty\u2011kill duty.<\/p>\n
Peters: Pretty unexciting player.<\/p>\n
Pronman: A manager would kill for a 6\u20112 right\u2011shot center who can skate, scores 50 points and kills penalties.<\/p>\n
Peters: They\u2019re literally on every team in the league.<\/p>\n
Bultman: Could you envision us having this exact same conversation about Brady Martin in a year or two?<\/p>\n
Peters: 100 percent we can.<\/p>\n
Bultman: It\u2019s probably the right neighborhood \u2014 this is where those guys live.<\/p>\n
Peters: It\u2019s also not far from Ryan Leonard. And I think there\u2019s a much more exciting player in Ryan Leonard.<\/p>\n
Bultman: We could have this exact same conversation, frankly, about Frank Nazar in a year \u2014 if Nazar\u2019s like a 40\u2011point guy. Conor Geekie\u2019s a couple spots behind. There are a lot of guys of this exact profile in this range.<\/p>\n
Peters: Right. I just don\u2019t think Danielson\u2019s in that group. I don\u2019t see Brady Martin in that group either.<\/p>\n
Wheeler: How many minutes a night do you expect Simon Edvinsson to play for the Red Wings this year, Max?<\/p>\n
Bultman: I would have Edvinsson above Danielson, no doubt. I think Edvinsson\u2019s going to be a 21-22-minute a night guy. He would be my No. 1 U23 guy for the Wings, I think.<\/p>\n
Peters: It is interesting \u2014 staying on the Red Wings, Corey\u2019s got a number of guys: Edvinsson, Marco Kasper, a couple of guys in that same range. And I have to admit, for each of them, I\u2019m just like, OK, those are good players that\u2019ll help you.<\/p>\n
Pronman: (Steve) Yzerman\u2019s been criticized in some ways \u2014 you can argue whether they\u2019ve gotten value outside the first round, but I don\u2019t think you could look at any of his first\u2011round picks and say, \u201cThis one\u2019s not going well.\u201d There are no Filip Zadinas in this mix. Lucas Raymond has been on par; Moritz Seider has been on par or better with his draft slot. (Marco) Kasper, Danielson, Axel Sandin Pellikka and Michael Brandsegg-Nyg\u00e5rd \u2014 they look right where they should have been drafted. It\u2019s hard when you build one piece at a time and you\u2019re not picking in the top five.<\/p>\n
Peters: Correct. My question isn\u2019t a criticism of drafting \u2014 it\u2019s where you are now. How many of these guys are propelling you into a higher level of competitiveness? Playoffs, yes. I don\u2019t see a path for Detroit to be a Stanley Cup contender in the next 10 years.<\/p>\n
Pronman: It\u2019d have to be like a Blues\u2011type run, where Sebastian Cosssa\/Trey Augustine go on some crazy run and the team is a bunch of playoff\u2011style players who all do really well for a month and a half.<\/p>\n
Bultman: I think about the two Islanders teams that pushed Tampa in those two years as kind of where it\u2019s headed. In a best\u2011case scenario, you could give a really talented team fits, and maybe that Game 7 goes the other way for you. I do agree \u2014 they\u2019re headed to being a really hard team to play against that ends up where Carolina is right now, frankly: in the playoffs every year and winning a couple rounds, but having a hard time getting over.<\/p>\n
Peters: That might even be lofty, honestly, Max. I think they\u2019re more Minnesota.<\/p>\n
Bultman: I\u2019m not saying the next two years \u2014 but if everything continues.<\/p>\n
Peters: Fair.<\/p>\n
Final thoughts<\/p>\n
Bultman: All right, let\u2019s wrap there. Corey, I appreciate you sitting in that chair while we pick through, with a fine\u2011tooth comb, everything you put the work into. I recommend everybody go read the article on Corey\u2019s ranking of the top under\u201123 players in the sport. Any final thoughts, Chris?<\/p>\n
Peters: Yes \u2014 thanks, Corey, for sitting in there. Normally, I\u2019d get fired up a little bit more, but if I\u2019m arguing about the 42nd player on the list, I\u2019m obviously not that fired up. It\u2019s hard to do.<\/p>\n
An important thing to remember about these lists: the nature of development is that these are going to change. This is Corey\u2019s view right now. It\u2019s good that we have differences of opinion \u2014 it wouldn\u2019t be any fun if we didn\u2019t \u2014 and it wouldn\u2019t be realistic if we agreed on everything. We won\u2019t know for years what these guys ultimately become, but you can only go based on the information you have now. All in all, whether we argue or not, I think it\u2019s a solid list.<\/p>\n
(Top photo of Adam Fantilli: Ben Jackson \/ Getty Images)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"By Max Bultman, Corey Pronman and Scott Wheeler This excerpt is from today\u2019s episode of\u00a0The Athletic Hockey Show.…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":116770,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[433],"tags":[49,48,448,82],"class_list":["post-116769","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-nhl","tag-ca","tag-canada","tag-nhl","tag-sports"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/116769","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=116769"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/116769\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/116770"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=116769"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=116769"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=116769"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}