{"id":385938,"date":"2026-01-03T16:41:12","date_gmt":"2026-01-03T16:41:12","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/385938\/"},"modified":"2026-01-03T16:41:12","modified_gmt":"2026-01-03T16:41:12","slug":"best-of-bp-2025-the-other-side-of-the-times-through-the-order-penalty","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/385938\/","title":{"rendered":"Best of BP 2025: The Other Side of the Times Through the Order Penalty"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/01\/USATSI_25831095-1000x714.jpg\" \/><\/p>\n<p>Image credit: \u00a9 Sam Navarro-Imagn Images<\/p>\n<p>In the top of the first inning on July 3, 2024, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/card\/card.php?id=131860\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Mitchell Parker<\/a> struck out <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/card\/card.php?id=70399\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Francisco Lindor<\/a> on four pitches: a four-seam out of the zone followed by three straight whiffs on the splitter. He faced Lindor again in the top of the third, and this time it took him six pitches to induce an easy groundout. He mixed in one curveball, but otherwise stuck with the four-seam and split. In the top of the fifth he faced Lindor a third time. Parker started him off again with the splitter, getting another whiff\u2014Lindor\u2019s fourth against it that day. On the next pitch he went back to it but missed the zone, then missed again with the four-seam before dropping in his second curveball of the game against Lindor for strike two. The fifth pitch of the at bat was another splitter, which the All-Star was able to lay off of once more, drawing the count full. Lindor had now seen each of Parker\u2019s offerings multiple times. The splitter was no longer fooling him, and his lineup mates <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/card\/card.php?id=100630\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Tyrone Taylor<\/a> and <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/card\/card.php?id=111017\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Mark Vientos<\/a> had each taken the four-seam deep earlier in the game. That left only the curveball. Parker didn\u2019t quite hang the pitch, but it stayed up just enough for Lindor to pick it up out of hand, track it, and launch it 107 mph into the Mets\u2019 bullpen for a two-run home run.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<p>This was a somewhat familiar sequence for Lindor, who in 2024 saw the most improvement of any batter in baseball, the batter equivalent of the Times Through the Order Penalty (TTOP). It\u2019s a skill that not only exists, but is as sticky year to year as a hitter\u2019s BABIP and is positively correlated both to one\u2019s overall skill as a hitter and specifically to one\u2019s plate discipline. This discovery was prompted by a message from Davy Andrews of FanGraphs in response to a piece I wrote in February. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/news\/article\/96431\/familiarity-or-fatigue\/\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">In that research<\/a> I found the Times Through the Order Penalty for pitchers was primarily due to familiarity rather than to fatigue, and that familiarity came both through a batter\u2019s familiarity with a specific offering from the pitcher and from the pitcher as a whole. After it was published Davy reached out to me with an interesting question: If TTOP is primarily due to familiarity, then shouldn\u2019t we see some variance among hitters in their ability to \u201clearn\u201d a pitcher? And if we do, then what other skills might this \u201cTTOP skill\u201d be associated with?<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s one of those questions that seems obvious in hindsight and yet didn\u2019t occur to me at all in the course of the research. Luckily, answering that question required only a small tweak to the model I used for the previous work. As a refresher, that model predicted the outcome of a plate appearance based on the batter, pitcher, ballpark, team defense, pitch quality during the at bat, and the number of times through the order it\u2019s been. This time I would use PitchPro specifically to capture pitch quality, and I would add a batter-specific TTOP adjustment. This adjustment would look for this batter TTOP skill while controlling for the other factors and the noise inherent in a random sample of at bat outcomes.<a href=\"#_ftn1\" name=\"_ftnref1\" id=\"_ftnref1\">[1]<\/a> Running the model for the 2024 season produced the following names at the top of the leaderboard (min 300 PA).<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-97426\" src=\"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/01\/image2.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"465\" height=\"450\"   \/><\/p>\n<p>As mentioned, Lindor leads the way, with a 0.027 expected wOBA improvement the third time through relative to his first time facing that pitcher. Followed closely behind was <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/card\/card.php?id=111306\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Shohei Ohtani<\/a>, with <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/player_search.php?search_name=Juan+Soto\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Juan Soto<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/card\/card.php?id=138833\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Michael Toglia<\/a>, and <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/card\/card.php?id=70635\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Corey Seager<\/a> coming right after. If you scanned this list you\u2019d notice not only some of the best hitters in baseball, but also guys who are known for having exceptional eyes and approaches. <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/player_search.php?search_name=Juan+Soto\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Juan Soto<\/a> and <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/card\/card.php?id=70635\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Corey Seager<\/a> in particular are known for these qualities, with the latter even getting <a href=\"https:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/news\/article\/86572\/the-crooked-inning-corey-seager-rangers\/\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">his own stat named after him<\/a>. Additionally, a scan of the guys at the bottom reveals the opposite: below average hitters and those with below-average approaches.<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-97425\" src=\"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/01\/image1-1.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"475\" height=\"448\"   \/><\/p>\n<p>Looking at the full sample this is a familiar pattern. Below is a correlation matrix between this TTOP skill and some familiar hitting metrics. The positive correlations between the plate-discipline-related metrics and TTOP skill are what I would have expected, as both represent the ability to quickly absorb visual information.<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-97428\" src=\"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/01\/image4.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"404\" height=\"335\"   \/><\/p>\n<p>We also see extremely strong correlation between TTOP skill and OPS and DRC+. Some of the correlation between overall outcomes and TTOP skill is tautological: if you improve a lot the third time through the order then of course it\u2019s going to increase your OPS, and thus of course it\u2019s going to result in a positive correlation. However, when we look at how well a stat in one season predicts TTOP skill in the next we again see OPS and DRC+ near the top, and the plate-discipline numbers losing some explanatory power.<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignnone size-large wp-image-97427\" src=\"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/01\/image3-1024x392.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"680\" height=\"260\"   \/><\/p>\n<p>This correlation between one\u2019s overall skill as a hitter and one\u2019s ability to adapt to a pitcher within a game speaks to something more general about hitting. Namely, that it\u2019s hard to condense what makes the great hitters great into a set of individual skills. Strength, coordination, and sharp vision are important, but TTOP skill reveals something beyond a good set of eyes and intuition. To improve with familiarity a batter must, in a fraction of a second, not only absorb the new information and integrate it with what he\u2019s already seen that day, but also organize his body to adjust to that information mid-swing. No matter how much better we get at measuring a hitter\u2019s tools, we may never be able to capture their value as strongly as something like StuffPro does for pitchers. Pitches are nice and visible; so much of the hitter\u2019s process is locked away inside their head.<\/p>\n<p>Note finally that while TTOP skill\u2019s correlation to itself isn\u2019t as strong as walk rate or OBP, it does exhibit similar year to year correlation as BABIP, which we know batters have moderately strong influence over based on how hard and at what angles they hit the ball. Similarly, the year-to-year correlation of TTOP for pitchers after controlling for PitchPro is nearly zero. This was the one thing that somewhat surprised me during this study. As mentioned in the previous piece, we know that some of the familiarity penalty is due to a batter\u2019s familiarity with a specific offering from that pitcher, and as such we\u2019d expect those with more pitches to consistently have a smaller TTOP than those with fewer. Additionally, our <a href=\"https:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/news\/article\/96026\/introducing-new-arsenal-metrics\/\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Arsenal Metric research<\/a> pointed to more cohesive arsenals better resisting batter familiarity, so we would have expected the year to year stability of these two factors to lead to some year to year stability in TTOP. However, no matter what sort of innings filters weights or limits I applied, I simply could not find a strong signal associated with a specific pitcher.<\/p>\n<p>That sequence of at-bats against <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/card\/card.php?id=131860\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Mitchell Parker<\/a> was one of six times in 2024 that Lindor took a pitcher deep after striking out in his first at bat against them. <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/player_search.php?search_name=Charlie+Morton\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Charlie Morton<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/card\/card.php?id=70795\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Tyler Glasnow<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/player_search.php?search_name=Ryne+Nelson\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Ryne Nelson<\/a>, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/card\/card.php?id=109650\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Kutter Crawford<\/a>, and even <a href=\"http:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/card\/card.php?id=117185\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Garrett Crochet<\/a> fell victim to that old saying in Tennessee: \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.goodreads.com\/quotes\/6436-there-s-an-old-saying-in-tennessee-i-know-it-s\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Fool me\u2014you can\u2019t get fooled again.<\/a>\u201d<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"#_ftnref1\" name=\"_ftn1\" id=\"_ftn1\">[1]<\/a> exp_woba ~ 1 + PitchPro + (1|tto) + (1+tto|batter) + (1+tto|pitcher) + (1|home_team) + (1|pitching_team) with exp_woba replacing actual wOBA weights for balls in play with the expected wOBA value of each ball in play based on its launch angle, exit velocity, and estimated spray angle.<\/p>\n<p>\t\t\t \t\t\tThank you for reading<\/p>\n<p>This is a free article. If you enjoyed it, consider subscribing to Baseball Prospectus. Subscriptions support ongoing public baseball research and analysis in an increasingly proprietary environment.<\/p>\n<p>\t\t\t \t\t\t<a class=\"btn btn-primary\" href=\"https:\/\/www.baseballprospectus.com\/subscriptions\/?utm_source=site&amp;utm_medium=banner&amp;utm_campaign=free_article\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Subscribe now<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Image credit: \u00a9 Sam Navarro-Imagn Images In the top of the first inning on July 3, 2024, Mitchell&hellip;\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":385939,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[435],"tags":[163263,49,48,3640,462,475,82,164063],"class_list":{"0":"post-385938","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-mlb","8":"tag-best-of-bp-2025","9":"tag-ca","10":"tag-canada","11":"tag-francisco-lindor","12":"tag-mlb","13":"tag-new-york-mets","14":"tag-sports","15":"tag-times-through-the-order-penalty"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/385938","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=385938"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/385938\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/385939"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=385938"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=385938"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=385938"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}