![\"Jonathan](\"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/05\/Screenshot-2026-05-09-at-5.18.12-PM.png\")
Jonathan Calof, the special anitsemitism adviser for Ottawa University, says anti-Jewish hatred in Canada is no longer confined to street protests, but is becoming institutionalized. (The CJN photo)<\/p>\nA little over two years ago, on April 15, 2024, David Sachs of Ottawa\u2019s Jewish Federation was leaving an interfaith event near Parliament Hill. He was wearing a kippah. Outside the government building, anti-Israel protesters were waiting.<\/p>\n
In his victim impact statement last week, Sachs told the sentencing hearing for his convicted attacker, Deana Sherif, that he feared for his life during those \u201cabsolutely horrific\u201d moments when he was swarmed, hit on the head, screamed at with anti-Israel insults, then followed for four blocks as he tried to escape, all while his assailant\u2019s dangerously loud electronic whistle blasted near his ears.<\/p>\n
Ottawa police arrested Sherif a few days later and charged her with eight offences, including resisting a police officer and two hate-motivated charges. Some of the charges stemmed from another confrontation she had that same day involving Conservative MP Brad Vis of British Columbia, who was trying to go the gym.<\/p>\n
In February, Sherif was convicted on just two of the original charges. The Crown did not concentrate on the hate-motivated allegations at trial, even though the judge agreed some of the shouted insults were antisemitic, but found Sherif herself was not the person making them.<\/p>\n
On May 6, the judge sentenced her to the 17 months she had already spent in custody, plus one year probation, a peace bond, and a decade-long ban on using the loud whistle or possessing other weapons.<\/p>\n
On today\u2019s episode of The CJN\u2019s North Star podcast, David Sachs explains why he believes the convictions were significant\u2014but also why he feels the outcome fell short without hate-related findings. We also hear from University of Ottawa antisemitism adviser Jonathan Calof, who warns anti-Jewish hatred in Canada is no longer confined to street protests, but is becoming institutionalized.<\/p>\n
Jonathan Calof, the special anitsemitism adviser for Ottawa University, says anti-Jewish hatred in Canada is no longer confined to street protests, but is becoming institutionalized. (The CJN photo)<\/p>\n
Related links<\/p>\n
How twice-convicted Ottawa protester Deana Sherif played a role in organizing and promoting this year\u2019s 2026 Al-Quds Day protest rally in Toronto, in The CJN<\/a> .Learn more about Prof. Jonathan Calof,<\/a> the special adviser on antisemitism appointed by Ottawa University in early 2025,Read David Sachs\u2019 comments after an Ottawa man pleaded guilty in Feb. 2025 to sending hateful messages to local physician Dr. Nili Kaplan-Myrth in Feb. 2025, in The CJN.<\/a>Transcript:<\/p>\n David Sachs:<\/p>\n \u201cThere were 14 of them on me.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cI thought I could be stabbed at any moment\u201d<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner:<\/p>\n That\u2019s Ottawa Jewish community leader David Sachs, describing the moment two years ago when he was swarmed by screaming, masked anti-Israel protesters after he left an iftar dinner at a government building across from Parliament Hill in April 2024.<\/p>\n Last week, an Ottawa judge sentenced Deana Sherif, 49, to 17 months in prison time already served. She\u2019s one of the city\u2019s most prominent anti-Israel protesters. The judge credited the time she had been behind bars before the sentence.\u00a0<\/p>\n Sherif also received one year probation, a peace bond ordering her to stay away from her victim, a ban on using her dangerously loud electronic referee-style whistle \u2014 or similar noisemakers \u2014 and an order to provide a DNA sample.<\/p>\n In February, an Ottawa jury convicted Sherif in connection with the chaotic confrontation involving David Sachs, and also that same day with a Conservative MP from British Columbia, Brad Vis, who was simply trying to go to a nearby gym.<\/p>\n Unlike Vis, Sachs was wearing a kippah. Visibly Jewish.\u00a0<\/p>\n Ottawa police originally laid eight charges, including two hate-motivated ones. Sachs is disappointed the Crown ultimately chose not to pursue those hate circumstances during the four-month trial.<\/p>\n Still, he says, the conviction for criminal harassment against him, and assault with a weapon for the other victim, plus the time Sherif spent in custody, brings some measure of accountability, even if the final sentence falls short.<\/p>\n David Sachs:<\/p>\n It\u2019s satisfying that she received serious jail time for her actions and that should give some measure of satisfaction to the Jewish community in that we are seeing real and severe repercussions. That said, we really need our Crowns to begin appending the hate charges where they\u2019re appropriate, even when they feel they might be difficult. That is a part of the case and it shouldn\u2019t be just considered a bonus if it\u2019s a slam dunk. It matters to us! And obviously we would see a heavier charge if the hate-motivation was found to be in place.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner:<\/p>\n I\u2019m Ellin Bessner, and this is what Jewish Canada sounds like for Monday, May 11, 2026.<\/p>\n Welcome to North Star, the flagship podcast of The Canadian Jewish News, made possible through the generous support of the Ira Gluskin and Maxine Granovsky Gluskin Charitable Foundation.<\/p>\n Just ahead on today\u2019s show, you\u2019ll hear from David Sachs \u2014 and from Jonathan Calof \u2014 the University of Ottawa\u2019s special adviser on antisemitism \u2014 who warns anti-Jewish hatred in Canada is no longer confined to street protests, but is becoming institutionalized.<\/p>\n But first, some background about Deana Sherif:<\/p>\n She\u2019s long been active on Canada\u2019s protest circuit \u2014 from ANTIFA (anti-Fascist) demonstrations, to the Freedom Convoy in 2022. More recently at protests against Israel\u2019s military campaign in Gaza following the Oct. 7 Hamas attacks.\u00a0<\/p>\n Sherif hasn\u2019t just protested in Ottawa.\u00a0<\/p>\n She\u2019s also appeared at demonstrations in the Toronto area, including outside synagogues.<\/p>\n Earlier this year, when Ontario unsuccessfully sought a court injunction to block Toronto\u2019s annual Al-Quds Day rally, government lawyers named Sherif 10 times <\/a>as one of the event\u2019s promoters, and said she shared a social media post praising the recent attack on that Detroit, Michigan synagogue, when the brother of some Hezbollah fighters drove his truck containing firearms and gasoline into the building.<\/p>\n Her defence lawyer argued Sherif deserved only an absolute\u00a0 discharge because she\u2019s been in a jail so long, separated from her young daughter, and because quote \u201cthe ongoing genocide in Gaza\u201d could explain \u201ca lapse in judgment.\u201d<\/p>\n But the judge rejected that and so she will now have a criminal record.<\/p>\n He described Sherif\u2019s pursuit of Sachs as a four-minute episode of what he called \u201cabsolutely horrific\u201d and \u201cpersecutory assaultive behaviour\u201d that would terrify anyone, even though he said the evidence did not prove Sherif herself uttered the antisemitic insults shouted by others in the crowd.<\/p>\n David Sachs and Jonathan Calof join me now from Ottawa.<\/p>\n Welcome both of you to the Canadian Jewish News North Star Podcast.<\/p>\n Jonathan Calof<\/p>\n Glad to be here, Ellin.<\/p>\n David Sachs<\/p>\n Thanks for checking in with us.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n Look, David, I want to bring you on first. Can you share what\u2019s happened to you and why this, why you\u2019re in the news now?<\/p>\n David Sachs<\/p>\n Sure. It was two years ago in 2024. I have been invited for several years to a Muslim community iftar dinner on Parliament Hill that is quite a big event and brings a lot of community leaders and politicians together. On this occasion, there were some protesters in front and they were likely there because the Prime Minister was there or the mayor was there and they were screaming about at them for being pro-genocide.<\/p>\n And when I went in, they weren\u2019t making much trouble. They were setting up in front on Wellington Street in Parliament Hill. We had a wonderful time at the dinner on the theme of \u201clove for all, hate for none\u201d. And when it came time to leave, several of my Jewish colleagues were telling me they were going to leave by the back door because they were worried about the presence of these protesters in front. And I had left a harmonica with security at the front, so I had to go out the front. I know that I was the only one leaving the front wearing a kippah and being identifiably Jewish. So I left.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n Wait, can I interrupt you for a minute? Why weren\u2019t they letting you in with a harmonica? Did they think that was a weapon or something?<\/p>\n David Sachs<\/p>\n Yes. Yeah. Although ironic as a noise weapon.<\/p>\n When I left, I immediately had someone in a mask in my face. And I remember making a comment about that being a good look for him.<\/p>\n And just as I had the words out of my mouth, there were 14 of them on me. I tried to walk through this crowd. They were on my body, screaming, mainly in masks, screaming at me, calling me the worst possible things. And there was someone with a drum. who was banging it on my head and behind me and pushing me.<\/p>\n When I turned to shove him, that was when a police officer came down. Now, there were three police officers that I can recall on the steps. The room was full of police inside for context. OPS, OPP, RCMP. And one of these parliamentary protective services officers came down and went next to me on one arm, but did nothing to break up the gang. And as we began walking away, seven or so of them stayed with us as we left the building. And the one with the drum was behind me, hitting me with it and banging on the head. And the criminal, Deana Sherif, had her noise weapon in my face, this electric whistle that was very high powered, very high pitched. And they were, you know, screaming slurs at me. And we walked for three or four blocks. And in the video, it was four minutes of this harassment that they followed me. And I said repeatedly to the police officer, \u201cYou know, what does it take for you to make an arrest?\u201d And he said repeatedly, \u201cI\u2019m not going to make an arrest. I\u2019m just here to get you to safety.\u201d<\/p>\n And as a result of that, most of the group could not be identified because they were masked. And so in the CCTV footage that they were able to use to find the one that was charged, she was the only one out of that group who wasn\u2019t wearing a mask. So she was the only one, and she was well known to police. So she was charged, I think, within a few days.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n She was convicted. Found guilty of what charge against you? Because there was another person that was involved, a member of parliament got harassed, but it\u2019s sort of a joint combination of charges.<\/p>\n David Sachs<\/p>\n And in the case of the MP, she was found guilty of assault with a weapon for this noise device, which sets a very important precedent for us. In my case, and I can\u2019t get into the mind of the jury, I can only assume that based on the video, it was a silent video, so they couldn\u2019t actually hear the noise thing, although they could see it in my face. So she was found guilty of criminal harassment and intimidation, but not guilty on assault with a weapon. Although it was very clear that whereas the MP was assaulted with this weapon for 9 seconds, I was assaulted with this weapon for four minutes.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n Can you share the physical and mental impact that being the target of that hateful, horrible incident has had on your life?<\/p>\n David Sachs<\/p>\n Sure. First, just in that moment, because of my work representing the Jewish community regarding antisemitism, I was immediately thinking of that. And of course, I\u2019m aware of the dangers. So as I\u2019m walking for the whole four minutes, I thought I could be stabbed at any moment, every step step of the way. I mean, I\u2019m surrounded by people with masks with, and they\u2019re just enraged. And the thought that came to mind, first of all, was what if I was with my kids? Then there would have been violence and something would have, would have occurred. But the main thing\u2026<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n You would have fought back, right?<\/p>\n David Sachs<\/p>\n Well, I would have, something would\u2026 Yeah, defended your child, exactly. But what I really was thinking about was this is intolerable for my community. I would say with regards to how it affected me in the long term, I\u2019ve had a lot of chronic stress because of the kind of work that I do. And this really added to what I was dealing with. And that\u2019s something that affected me mentally and physically. I\u2019ve had a number of illnesses or other syndromes that have come in the last couple of years out of this. stress that I was diagnosed with shortly after this meeting. So this was definitely a contributing factor to what has been a difficult couple of years.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n I\u2019m very sorry that you have to deal with this. I guess our listeners, it\u2019s fair to say, because you mentioned it during your victim impact statement, that you went on leave, you went on medical leave from work. It\u2019s important that they know. How does this fit into the pattern that you have both seen? I\u2019ll bring you both in. Where does this fit in terms of escalation?<\/p>\n Jonathan Calof<\/p>\n So the concept of the escalation, when you talk about the university, It\u2019s taking a different form. I mean, the October, and I think David\u2019s dates were really critical. That was the era in Ottawa of these mass protests and these mass surroundings. It has become more what we call institutionalized antisemitism more than anything else. Equally bad, not as physical, but very terrorizing.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n Give me some examples. I know, for example, some students in the residence reported lots of graffiti that was very hurtful to them.<\/p>\n Jonathan Calof<\/p>\n So, and that\u2019s actually an example of a U of O win, and a loss at the same time.<\/p>\n So the incident you\u2019re referring to: several males broke into residence and put graffiti on the door of a Jewish student. They have been a arrested. Security was on it quickly. Ottawa Police Service was on it quickly. But more importantly, probably within about 30 minutes of the incident happening, because of the system we set up, Jewish students were with the individual to give her support. Residence was on the line with me, how can we deal with this? And the president of the university was on the line with the student, how can we help you? That was followed up by an email to all university students describing as much as she could about the incident without enough to damage the case, saying antisemitism will not be tolerated.<\/p>\n This is one of the first times we\u2019ve seen this sort of thing happen in Canada. There was no kickback. It was accepted on campus that, yeah, this was an appropriate message for the president. And there\u2019s a lot that has come as a result of that, but the incident occurred. That was in the fall of 2025.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n Four months ago, five months ago.<\/p>\n Jonathan Calof<\/p>\n We have had a student go into class, shaking people\u2019s hands, and another student said to him, \u201cI\u2019m not shaking your hand, you\u2019re a genocidal, baby killing\u201d, you know, the list goes on.<\/p>\n That student got in touch with me shortly thereafter, And there was quick action taken. Security, once again, got involved. Professor asked me, \u201cHow can I help the student? What can I do?\u201d Friends, again, were on him, and this is where the linkage is created.<\/p>\n And if you want to know a whole community response, David is part of my team, but the Federation is with me, Hillel is with me, Chabad is with me.<\/p>\n So when I get word of an incident, the first thing in my mind is get support for that student or faculty member. And we\u2019re getting support around that. My institution is saying, \u201cWhat went wrong and what can we do to prevent it in the future?\u201d<\/p>\n And so there has been a motion brought forward, for example, to strengthen institution neutrality. We\u2019re looking at, can we stop a speaker from coming in if, a priori, we know that what they are going to talk about could cause harm. And that was because there was an incident before my time where Al Jazeera was going across the country. And one of the speakers, and I will not forget this, it broke my heart, was a photographer on October 7th, posting pictures on his Facebook site. of the wonderful freedom fighters as they were on their gliders. And I got pissed!<\/p>\n And I said, and everybody agrees with me all the way up the ladder, \u201cHow did this happen that this sort of an individual was allowed to talk to our students?\u201d<\/p>\n And because of the support of leadership and our ex-Special Envoy tweeted about it last year, I\u2019m in a position where I can help.<\/p>\n But the incidences are coming.<\/p>\n My students are feeling better about being Jewish, and I\u2019m having monthly events. I pay for the bagels and the drinks, and then the professors come in. But they don\u2019t want to let anybody know they\u2019re Jewish. That\u2019s the part that\u2019s changed in the last year. They are hiding. They\u2019re afraid.<\/p>\n I was at a Jewish Medical Association of Ontario Shabbat dinner on Friday night, and the medical students were saying, \u201cThings are going great\u201d<\/p>\n Well, why are they going great?<\/p>\n \u201cWe\u2019re not letting anybody know. So as long as we keep our head down, we\u2019re good.\u201d<\/p>\n And then a few days earlier, I was at the Movement Against Anti-zionism event in Toronto, which was looking at this new strategy for anti-Zionism. And I sat with Grade 7, 8, and 9 teachers. And the new word is because of what\u2019s going on in terms of the institutionalization of antisemitism, If you have a child that cannot get into the Jewish school because it\u2019s too crowded, your next best place to put them is the Catholic school system.<\/p>\n And I\u2019m sitting here going, \u201cWhen was the last time in our history when we said, \u2018Let\u2019s hide our kids with the Catholics?’\u201d<\/p>\n So that\u2019s what I mean by institutionalization is it\u2019s become so prevalent and so normalized. It\u2019s normalized that these teachers at my table told me about Grade 7 and 8 students hurling insults at them: \u201cYou\u2019re Jewish. I\u2019ve been told you\u2019re going to be frying in Hell because you\u2019re Jewish. You\u2019re Jewish. Well, I think you should go back to Poland so Hitler can complete the job.\u201d<\/p>\n So we\u2019re seeing more and more isolationism, ostracizing, it\u2019s considered acceptable. We\u2019re seeing, I\u2019m calling it abuse of podium. And at least at our university, we\u2019re taking steps to create a stronger community. So much so that we had a Shabbat dinner four weeks ago before the end of the term, over 120 showed up. We didn\u2019t need extra security. There was no threat. And a third of the room, and this is a thing that\u2019s getting neat, were not Jewish. And the message to my students was, \u201cYou\u2019re not alone. There\u2019s a lot of people out there and it\u2019s growing in terms of that are starting to support you and say, we are here for you.\u201d<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n And that\u2019s giving me hope. That\u2019s really giving me some hope, John.<\/p>\n Coming up, why Ottawa\u2019s new bubble zone bylaw is being welcomed, but why they say it still won\u2019t stop the hate.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner:<\/p>\n And just recently, the Ottawa City Council passed the bubble legislation<\/a>, or vulnerable infrastructure law. Is the community happy that this is now in place?<\/p>\n David Sachs<\/p>\n I was actually a part of a team that, and this is really important to make this distinction, is that this was not an effort spearheaded by the Jewish Federation, but it was actually an effort spearheaded by the municipal government and our municipal leaders. So it was also in April, I would say, of 2024. So I think also that has been a two-year effort. And it was really pushed hard by a couple of our councillors who are wonderful allies, Councillor David Hill and Councillor Hubley, as well as the Mayor\u2019s office.<\/p>\n We responded very constructively to counter arguments, for example, from the Canadian Civil Liberties Association, and they got it and they understood the concerns. And we were able to get those on the far left who may have been sympathetic with the causes that target Jews, but they also understood the importance of people being able to go about their daily lives without harassment. And they\u2019ve seen this kind of targeted harassment against other vulnerable communities. So we were able to get many of those across the political spectrum. And in the end, we had an overwhelming consensus on\u2013<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n What was the vote? Do you know offhand? what the final vote was?<\/p>\n David Sachs<\/p>\n It was 20 to 4.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n That\u2019s pretty good.<\/p>\n David Sachs<\/p>\n Yeah.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n Do you think this is going to make things better, the things we\u2019ve reported about, which are harassing outside the seniors residence and, you know, outside the Jewish day schools and what have you?<\/p>\n David Sachs<\/p>\n First of all, it isn\u2019t like that was something that was happening every day at our schools, but it happening once was enough to realize the impact that it had of the daycare having to be closed and parents having to receive a call saying, your children may not be safe, you need to come and pick them up.<\/p>\n And I was in the lobby of the Jewish Community Center while that was happening, and there were senior citizens there who couldn\u2019t leave, and police were telling them this is unsafe to leave. So we learned a lot from that event, and it was something like, okay, this happened once, we don\u2019t really need an encore, we don\u2019t want this to happen again.<\/p>\n So now I think what it really does is give our community sense of peace of mind about this one fear that we all feel of having to cross a mob of these angry protesters, the same exact kind who swarmed and attacked me. And we don\u2019t have to worry about crossing them to take our kids to daycare, to take our kids to school, to go visit the, the nursing home or other facilities.<\/p>\n So I think it\u2019s as much of a mental and an emotional change as it is one on the ground, which was more preventative so that we wouldn\u2019t see the kind of things that they\u2019ve seen in Toronto and other locations. Montreal, Winnipeg. Haven\u2019t been commonplace in Ottawa. We don\u2019t need them to be commonplace.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n Who had somebody that literally got stabbed in a Loblaws. Bubble legislation will not prevent that.<\/p>\n David Sachs<\/p>\n Right, exactly. So there\u2019s much.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n You had two teenagers that were going to blow up the big rally on Parliament Hill, December 4th, I think it was, 2023. Bubble legislation would not prevent that.<\/p>\n David Sachs<\/p>\n So let\u2019s talk about, if you could click on that concept for one second though, because\u2026 Actually, that was one of the proposed targets, but it could have been any of the institutions. It had not been decided yet. And we can\u2019t say that a bubble wouldn\u2019t have prevented it because it might have been done under the guise of a protest or under, under the cover.<\/p>\n But you\u2019re quite right. There are other things that are far outside this. Our problems are not restricted to what we can fix with a bubble zone. But I think importantly, what this showed is that we have allies in in City Hall. We have allies among city staff who want to do the right thing and want to work with our community. So that gives us hope for the other areas, which of course there are enormous risks and that there are embedded hate and as Jonathan points it, institutionalized issues. So the problem is much, much bigger than this. Ottawa is not immune, certainly.<\/p>\n Jonathan Calof<\/p>\n No, but Ellin, I think what\u2019s critical with what David\u2019s saying and what I\u2019m saying is that Ottawa seems to have done something rather unique in the medium to larger size cities that I want others to learn from. It\u2019s been an all hands on deck where the community as a whole has participated. David reached out to many people, including myself, to assist in the efforts to do this.<\/p>\n But probably number one is that there is leadership at the University of Ottawa. leadership at the City of Ottawa who are saying, \u201cwe need to do something about it\u201d. And so what that does collectively for our community, even though we\u2019re in pain, we thought they all forgot about us. We thought they didn\u2019t care. Okay. This is a powerful message for us.<\/p>\n But again, the starting point is if your leadership does not care, your chances of doing something positive, like David was just able to pull off, really go down rather dramatically.<\/p>\n I am hearing, pardon the expression, shit that is really, really bad. I\u2019ve got crying students, I\u2019ve got crying faculty, I\u2019ve got death threats. The list goes on. And I got people from other universities calling me with the same stories. Please, can you help me? I\u2019ve gone down to Queens because they needed to be down there. I had just had a meeting with Guelph. I\u2019ve got the support of parliamentarians. I\u2019ve got support of senators. I\u2019m working with police. And Ellin, one of the other things that I love about this role, they\u2019re allowing me to talk to the people that are doing what you and I would call the stupid shit.<\/p>\n So I\u2019m looking at them in the eye, asking them why they did it, what they saw, what they felt. If we don\u2019t understand what\u2019s driving the other side, how are we supposed to come up with reasonable responses? And this is where the anti-Zionism movement has to be hit on. There are many Canadians who believe that Israel as a Jewish state is not important to us. And so if they hit the Israel stuff, we\u2019re not hurting the Jewish students. There are students who are so angry, and I\u2019ve talked to some of the medical students on the other side, who are so furious about what they\u2019re calling to the genocide, that they\u2019ve lost all reason. But what we do is we sit down, we have mediated sessions, we have discussions.<\/p>\n If they\u2019re all the way here, there\u2019s no pulling them back. If they\u2019re over here, we\u2019re able to do something. The fact that I have been in the Disputed Territories, and I\u2019ve met with Palestinians throughout the Arab Middle East, puts me in a rather unique position to say, Hey, I got friends here. I was crying as well. And I know what\u2019s going on.<\/p>\n And it\u2019s by having this base at Ottawa U that I can do that. And at that point, I\u2019ll be able to figure out whether there\u2019s hope for us.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n Can you sort of paint a picture for our listeners who aren\u2019t in Ottawa, but also outside? Where do you think antisemitism is at and the main sort of next challenge that the city may face?<\/p>\n David Sachs<\/p>\n I think that we have made headway in Ottawa that maybe they haven\u2019t made in other spaces with institutions, with political leaders. This work has always broken down into two two streams and one is current and security based and putting in place processes or following the process which are in place to protect our Jewish students or our Jewish employees in the workplace or our Jewish citizens on the street.<\/p>\n And the other part is educational. And that is that this part is never going to help in the long term and it\u2019s not going to solve a problem. It might make us safer in the moment, but it doesn\u2019t stop hate. Can we stop hate? Can we make a difference there? I don\u2019t know. We\u2019re trying to.<\/p>\n I am very pleased that for the most part, we have cooperative civic leadership in Ottawa. So we have at least a chance to try that I don\u2019t think that they have in a lot of communities in Canada. So hopefully we\u2019ll be able to show some successes for our effort in Ottawa that can be emulated elsewhere.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n It seems like the RCMP, CSIS, and Ottawa police, there\u2019s more arrests or at least more court things that have happened to prevent mass attacks.<\/p>\n David Sachs<\/p>\n I would say actually the opposite. I think that having CSIS be our last defence is a terrible place to be. Catching one group there and one group there doesn\u2019t make us feel safer. It makes us feel much less safe because we know they\u2019re not going to catch all of them. And it makes us feel like it\u2019s a matter of time before something gets through. So it\u2019s wonderful that they are paying attention and devoting resources to this, but we\u2019ve got to solve the underlying problem and not just rely on someone being stopped before they put all the ingredients of the bomb together.<\/p>\n Jonathan Calof<\/p>\n Yeah, my professors and students and the community members I talk to feel the system has let them down. The police don\u2019t care. That\u2019s back to feeling alone. They don\u2019t understand why exactly, what David just said. how is it you can have three police officers with you and no arrests are being made and he\u2019s being harassed?<\/p>\n Why did we have an Ottawa elderly man leave the JCC and there\u2019s a protest outside and his mirror gets ripped off with the policeman standing there ? We have far too many incidences where the question is being asked \u201cWhere were they? Why weren\u2019t they active?\u201d to get excited over three or four arrests that are being made.<\/p>\n And once again we\u2019re seeing an increase in an anger towards our community.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner<\/p>\n Very depressing conversation, I have to say, but also inspiring to hear some of the hope that you\u2019re working on, both of you. Thank you so much for explaining it here so well on The CJN\u2019s North Star.<\/p>\n Jonathan Calof:<\/p>\n Thank you, Ellen.<\/p>\n David Sachs<\/p>\n Thanks for all you do.<\/p>\n Ellin Bessner:<\/p>\n And that\u2019s what Jewish Canada sounded like for this episode of North Star, brought to you by the Ira Gluskin and Maxine Granovsky Gluskin Charitable Foundation.<\/p>\n We reached out to Conservative MP Brad Vis for comment, and also to Deana Sherif\u2019s lawyer to ask whether they are appealing. We haven\u2019t heard back yet.<\/p>\n Sherif has since posted online that she will still be allowed to attend protests \u2014 just not while using the piercing whistle involved in this case, or a squeaky watermelon toy she used in August \u2013 of that same year..while she was out on bail. She is appealing that separate conviction.<\/p>\n Our show is produced by Zachary Judah Kauffman and Izzie Helenchilde, with Michael Fraiman as executive producer and Alicia Richler as editorial director.<\/p>\n You can also watch our podcast interviews on The CJN\u2019s YouTube<\/a> channel.<\/p>\n Thanks for listening.<\/p>\n Credits<\/p>\n Host and writer: Ellin Bessner ( @ebessner<\/a> )Production team: Zachary Kauffman (senior producer), Izzie Helenchilde (producer), Michael Fraiman (executive producer), Alicia Richler (editorial director)Music: Bret Higgins<\/a><\/p>\n Support our show<\/p>\n