\u201cA mate mentioned the impressive statistic that Liverpool have not finished lower than eighth in the league since being promoted to the old First Division in 1962. Taking the 1962-63 season as the starting point, what is the lowest position that all current Premier League teams have finished between 1963 and the present?\u201d ask the lads at the Star and Dragon Pub, Carbondale, Illinois. \u201cAnd what is the lowest any team has fallen that has played at least one season in the top division since 1962-63?\u201d<\/p>\n
How the mighty haven\u2019t fallen. Liverpool have shown remarkable consistency since they were promoted to the top flight 63 years ago. They\u2019ve finished eighth on four occasions (1962-63, 1993-94, 2011-12 and 2015-16) and are the only English team in that period never to end a season outside the top half of the top flight.<\/p>\n
Thanks to Pete Salmon and Mike Slattery in particular for doing the work on this answer. Let\u2019s start with the lowest positions in the league ladder achieved by the current Premier League teams.<\/p>\n
Liverpool 8th (1962-63, 1993-94, 2011-12, 2015-16)<\/p>\n
Arsenal 17th (1975-76)<\/p>\n
Everton 19th (1979-80)*<\/p>\n
Manchester United 23rd (first in second tier, 1974-75)<\/p>\n
Tottenham Hotspur 25th (1977-78)<\/p>\n
West Ham United 29th (1979-80)<\/p>\n
Chelsea 40th (1982-83)<\/p>\n
Newcastle United 42nd (1991-92)<\/p>\n
Manchester City 47th (third in third tier, 1998-99)<\/p>\n
Aston Villa 48th (1970-71)<\/p>\n
Leeds United 49th (2007-08)<\/p>\n
Nottingham Forest 51st (2005-06)<\/p>\n
Sunderland 52nd (2019-20)<\/p>\n
Crystal Palace 55th (1962-63)<\/p>\n
Wolves 72nd (fourth in fourth tier, 1986-87)<\/p>\n
Fulham 85th (1995-96)<\/p>\n
Brentford 87th (1973-74)<\/p>\n
Bournemouth 89th (2008-09)<\/p>\n
Burnley 90th (1986-87)<\/p>\n
Brighton 91st (1996-97, 1997-98)<\/p>\n
* Everton were not relegated as there were 22 teams in the English top flight.<\/p>\n
Unless Arne Slot guides Liverpool to ninth or lower this season, the Reds\u2019 run of top-eight finishes will continue. Photograph: Liverpool FC\/Getty Images<\/p>\n
Fifty-eight teams have played in the top flight since Liverpool\u2019s promotion in the summer of 1962. Six have dropped out of the Football League at some stage: Carlisle, Leyton Orient, Luton, Notts County, Oldham and Oxford. The lowest finishers of the six were Leyton Orient, who came 13th in the National League (105th overall) in 2017-18.<\/p>\n
While we\u2019re here, we looked at the lowest positions achieved by various European giants in the same period. Before anyone starts foaming at the exclusion of Beloved Superstars FC, we restricted it to teams who have won the European Cup\/Champions League more than once. Here\u2019s how the European Super League (Legacy Edition) looks; the big numbers are the lowest league position for each team.<\/p>\n
6th<\/p>\n
Barcelona 1962-63, 1964-65, 1987-88, 2002-03<\/p>\n
Benfica 2000-01<\/p>\n
8th<\/p>\n
Liverpool 1962-63, 1993-94, 2011-12, 2015-16<\/p>\n
9th<\/p>\n
Porto 1969-70<\/p>\n
Real Madrid 1976-77<\/p>\n
12th<\/p>\n
Bayern Munich 1977-78<\/p>\n
13th<\/p>\n
Ajax 1964-65<\/p>\n
Internazionale 1993-94<\/p>\n
17th<\/p>\n
Milan 1980-81, 1982-83 (first in Serie B)<\/p>\n
21st<\/p>\n
Juventus 2006-07 (first in Serie B)<\/p>\n
23rd<\/p>\n
Manchester United 1974-75<\/p>\n
40th<\/p>\n
Chelsea 1982-83<\/p>\n
51st<\/p>\n
Nottingham Forest 2005-06<\/p>\n
Eagles\u2019 Wembley compilation<\/p>\n
\u201cI\u2019ve now seen Crystal Palace lift four different trophies at Wembley (Zenith Data Systems Cup, Championship playoff trophy, FA Cup, Community Shield),\u201d writes Toby Kinder. \u201cManchester United and Liverpool never managed the ZDS, but have both won the European Cup there, as well as all the domestic trophies, so are probably on four too. Can any other club beat that?\u201d<\/p>\n
Selhurst Park, Sunday, 2pm is all we have to say on this subject. \u201cI feel bad for doing this, given the manufactured beef stirred up between our clubs this summer, but Nottingham Forest can go (at least) one better than Palace when it comes to winning different trophies at Wembley,\u201d says Jim Hearson.<\/p>\n
\u201cForest can see the Eagles\u2019 FA Cup (1959), Charity\/Community Shield (1978), Championship playoff trophy (2022) and Full Members\u2019 Cup \u2013 both Simod and ZDS varieties (1989, 1992) \u2013 and raise them a handful of League Cups (1979, 1989, 1990).<\/p>\n
Nottingham Forest celebrate playoff final glory at Wembley in 2022. Photograph: Andrew Boyers\/Action Images\/Reuters<\/p>\n
Jim adds: \u201cForest were also victorious at the Wembley-held Football League Centenary Tournament in 1988 but, as they weren\u2019t full-length matches, some uncharitable types may not wish to count it.\u201d<\/p>\n
Chelsea have also won five trophies at Wembley: FA Cup, League Cup, Community Shield, Full Members\u2019 Cup \u2026 and the League South Cup in 1945. \u201cChelsea beat Millwall 2-0 in front of a crowd of 90,000,\u201d writes Julian Croker. \u201cEight of the team were actually guest players registered to other clubs.\u201d<\/p>\n
Tom Solano nominates West Ham, whose five trophies were the Football League War Cup, FA Cup, Charity Shield, Cup Winners\u2019 Cup and Championship playoff. Sadly, we can\u2019t count the 1966 World Cup, won by a Hammers-heavy England at Wembley.<\/p>\n
More musical company for Vincent<\/p>\n
In the Knowledge last week<\/a> we looked at footballers whose names were song titles, a question inspired by CMAT\u2019s Vincent Kompany. Thanks to the dozens of you \u2013 we had no idea there were so many readers \u2013 who sent in some of the songs we\u2019d missed. We\u2019ve included links for the most popular\/interesting ones, with the rest rounded up at the bottom.<\/p>\n Thiago Silva \u2013 Dave ft AJ Tracey<\/a><\/p>\n<\/p>\n George Best \u2013 The Wedding Present<\/a> The Scent of Roy Keane \u2013 SHLUG<\/a><\/p>\n Hamish (the Goalie) \u2013 Michael Marra<\/a> Bob Wilson, Anchorman \u2013 Half Man, Half Biscuit<\/a><\/p>\n<\/p>\n Roger Milla \u2013 Pepe Kalle<\/a> Ich, Roque \u2013 Sportfreunde Stiller<\/a> The Ballad of Paul Tierney \u2013 Lonely Tourist<\/a> God\u2019s Footballer \u2013 Billy Bragg (about Peter Knowles)<\/a><\/p>\n Strachan \u2013 The Hitchers<\/a><\/p>\n Zola \u2013 Wonder Villains<\/a> We\u2019ve rounded up the rest below, splitting them by position to avoid one never-ending list of songs we\u2019ll possibly never hear anyway.<\/p>\n Goalkeepers Kasey Keller \u2013 Barcelona | Edwin van der Sar \u2013 Dackelblut<\/p>\n Defenders Titus Bramble \u2013 Kruz Leone and Duppy | Julian Dicks, the Terminator \u2013 Flat Back Four | Bobby Moore Was Innocent \u2013 Serious Drinking | Joey Jones \u2013 The Declan Swans | Sliding In (Like McGrain) \u2013 Big Wednesday | Nice One Cyril \u2013 Cockerel Chorus<\/p>\n Midfielders Declan Rice \u2013 ODUMODUBLVCK | Paul Scholes \u2013 Yukari Fresh | (Jamie) Jamie Pollock \u2013 International Strike Force | Dele \u2013 Taco Hemingway | Bakayoko \u2013 Taco Hemingway | Roy Keane \u2013 Brame and Hamo | Gary Speed \u2013 Lars Vaular<\/p>\n Forwards Rom\u00e1rio \u2013 Depth Charge | #RiyadMahrez \u2013 RK ft Sofiane & Hornet La Frappe | Ashley Barnes \u2013 Bacchus | Charlie George on Super 8 \u2013 Flyscreen | Mario Balotelli \u2013 Ruff Sqwad | Wayne Rooney \u2013 Johnny Flynn & The Sussex Wit | Johnny Rep \u2013 Mickey 3D | Drogba (Joanna) \u2013 Afro B | Hitti-litti Litmanen \u2013 Martti Servo | Messi \u2013 Neo Pistea | Kubala \u2013 Joan Manuel Serrat | Robin Friday \u2013 Mirror Pictures | When Robin Friday went to Cardiff \u2013 The Deckchairs | My Friend Cubilas (sic) \u2013 Badly Drawn Boy | Riquelme \u2013 Lukid | Eric Cantona Stomp \u2013 Superpunk | Johnny G (The Guidetti Song) \u2013 Badpojken ft Frida Green | Bergkamp \u2013 Midfield General<\/p>\n Manager Jurgen \u2013 Scorcher ft D Double E<\/p>\n Finally, Brendan Herron comes bearing information about an entire album of songs about footballers. \u201cA couple of years back, a Belgian DJ (and amateur footballer) in Berlin by the name of Gratts asked each of his fellow DJ mates to contribute a track to a compilation album. There\u2019s more background on this Bandcamp page<\/a>.<\/p>\n And here is the track list in full:<\/p>\n Paco Buyo<\/p>\n Tony Yeboah<\/p>\n Tony Vairelles<\/p>\n The Flying Dutchman<\/p>\n Ik West Het, Philippe Albert<\/p>\n O Fenomeno<\/p>\n Discorentin Martins<\/p>\n Rom\u00e1rio\u2019s Pants<\/p>\n Gheorghe Boy<\/p>\n George Best<\/p>\n Clayton Blackmore<\/p>\n We\u2019ll be honest, we did not expect to be finishing a section on songs named after the footballers with the words \u201cClayton\u201d and \u201cBlackmore\u201d.<\/p>\n Knowledge archive<\/p>\n \u201cOn Sunday Scott Brown, Celtic midfielder and Scotland captain, scored against Scott Brown, Aberdeen goalkeeper,\u201d wrote Paul Reilly in 2015. \u201cAre there any other instances of a player scoring past his namesake?\u201d<\/p>\n As Scott Walden emailed to point out, in 2012-13 Gloucester City had the pleasing combination at the back of goalkeeper Mike Green and central defender Mike Green. Confusion was always likely to be a risk and it came to a calamitous head in September in an FA Cup second qualifying round fixture against Thatcham Town.<\/p>\n Four minutes before the break, the Tigers were 1-0 and cruising. Then disaster struck. The Gloucester Citizen picks up the tale<\/a>: \u201c[Jack] Coventry worked some space on the left but his cross looked to be nothing more than a speculative effort. However, left-back Green and Matt Coupe got their wires crossed in trying to clear and the former poked out a foot and sent the ball past his goalkeeper and into the net.\u201d<\/p>\n A bad day for Mike Green and Mike Green ended well however, with Gloucester running out 2-1 winners.<\/p>\n
This is an album rather than a song<\/p>\n
A tribute to Dundee United\u2019s Hamish McAlpine, covered here by \u2013 yep \u2013 Leo Sayer<\/a><\/p>\n
\u201cIt\u2019s been my ringtone for years,\u201d writes Billy. \u201cNothing better.\u201d<\/p>\n
\u201cRoque Santa Cruz even stars in the video,\u201d writes Jonas Jessen.<\/p>\n
\u201cIncludes the glorious lines: \u2018The gaffer wants a word with you \/ We\u2019re sending you on loan to Crewe\u2019,\u201d says Declan Kehoe.<\/p>\n
\u201cThe man himself appears in the video!\u201d writes Meabh in Belfast.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n