The Neon Demon<\/a>. \u201cBut then they said, \u2018As it\u2019s you, we\u2019ll record it.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\ndouble quotation markSomeone who\u2019d had a similar op looked like they\u2019d boxed Mike Tyson<\/p>\n
Sitting in a swanky London hotel bar, drinking espressos and wearing a smart blue polo shirt under a skinny suit, Refn is here to talk about his latest movie, Her Private Hell, a ludicrously camp dream-collage of sci-fi, horror, spoof and revenge set in neon-lit Tokyo. But for the first 40 minutes of our chat, he recounts \u2013 with precious little interruption from me \u2013 the story of the 2023 operation that saved his life. Without it, he says, Her Private Hell would never have been made \u2013 not so much on health grounds, but because, before he was given this second chance at life, he had lost the passion for making movies.<\/p>\n
\u201cWhen you\u2019re young, your creative flame is bright red,\u201d he says. \u201cBut my own flame had vanished, like tears in the rain. I had fallen into a form of abyss. I was 50 years old and had no idea what to do with my remaining years.\u201d<\/p>\n
\u2018A movie AI could never make\u2019 \u2026 Sophie Thatcher in Her Private Hell Photograph: Everett Collection Inc\/Alamy<\/p>\n
The story begins in summer 2023, when Refn was working on a Prada campaign in Italy. He was feeling increasingly tired, and his daughter mentioned how pale he appeared, but he put it down to overwork. It was only after he returned to his home in Copenhagen that a doctor examined him and discovered that a valve in his heart was broken, and filling his lungs with blood. \u201cI was essentially dying,\u201d says Refn. They told him to come back in two weeks for open heart surgery, and gave him a choice of replacement valve: metal or pig.<\/p>\n
Her Private Hell stars Sophie Thatcher as Elle, an actor hoping to rebuild her relationship with her film mogul father by making her own Barberella-style sci-fi film: throughout the movie, you\u2019re never quite sure if what you\u2019re watching is the actual plot, or scenes from the fictional movie, or one of the characters\u2019 fever dreams. That\u2019s pretty much how I feel listening to Refn\u2019s tale of heart surgery, which he has transformed into some kind of epic cinematic quest.<\/p>\n
He mentions the quality of the light, the long silences (both features of his movies), and describes himself pleading to a higher power like George Bailey in It\u2019s A Wonderful Life (his favourite film of all time): \u201cLike, please God, just give me five more minutes, man!\u201d<\/p>\n
Refn was told to write a will and says he \u201cmade peace\u201d with his wife: \u201cI said, it\u2019s been 30 years, we had a good run at it, but like tears in the rain, everything has an end.\u201d (He really does love that Blade Runner quote.) He says he went through all the typical emotions: fear, anger, sadness, desperation. Not that anyone would have known.<\/p>\n
\u201cI didn\u2019t make a fuss about it,\u201d he says, \u201cbecause I\u2019m like a superhero.\u201d<\/p>\n
The lowest point came when he met a man who was fresh from similar open heart surgery. \u201cHe looked like he\u2019d been in a boxing match with Mike Tyson,\u201d says the director, who wasn\u2019t keen on ageing a decade overnight.<\/p>\n
\u2018I love femininity, flamboyance and camp\u2019 \u2026 Elle Fanning and Bella Heathcote in The Neon Demon. Photograph: Album\/Alamy<\/p>\n
But just as all heroes suffer setbacks, they eventually rise to conquer them. Just before the operation, Refn received a phone call from his surgeon that would change everything. \u201cHe was the Tom Cruise of surgeons,\u201d says Refn, somewhat lustily. \u201cHe rode a motorbike, he had rings, he was very sexy. All the nurses said, \u2018Oh my God, you\u2019re getting him. You\u2019re so lucky!\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n
Sexy Tom Cruise told Refn that he could fix him in a way no other doctor in Copenhagen could \u2013 through telescopic surgery, which meant not needing to open up his ribcage. Refn believes it was divine intervention. \u201cI think God was trying to tell me something. He\u2019s saying, \u2018You\u2019re not ready to go yet, kid. But you\u2019re going to go through a challenging process to reignite whatever that is inside of you.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n
By the time his operation came around, Refn says he was already a different person: \u201cI was a champ, a winner. The nurses prepare you for how your life will probably change afterwards. But I remember telling them that, actually, this was the best thing ever in my life. And that they were not to worry because my sex drive was going to be times a thousand when I was back.\u201d Er, was that an issue before? He pauses and smiles. \u201cNo. It actually ended the conversation. But it was a way to show how [the operation] was about rebirth, regeneration.\u201d<\/p>\n
double quotation markPrivate K\u2019s story was a narrative I could cling to, my fantasy version of what happened to me<\/p>\n
When Refn was washed and shaved for the operation, he saw it in quasi-religious terms: he was rinsing his past away. In the eerily empty hospital, he remembers feeling full of cinematic emotion when someone from LA, who had no idea what Refn was going through, called to ask \u201ca random question\u201d. They ruined a key scene in your movie! \u201cYeah, it was kind of like somebody getting up to buy more popcorn in the final farewell scene,\u201d he says.<\/p>\n
Refn may have avoided fighting Tyson but his operation was no walk in the park: he remembers \u201cincredible physical pain\u201d, and it took three months to rebuild himself. He says he was like an infant, learning to do things for the first time again. But when it came to film-making, that proved to be an advantage.<\/p>\n
Engine trouble \u2026 Ryan Gosling in Drive. Photograph: Filmdistrict\/Sportsphoto\/Allstar<\/p>\n
In Her Private Hell \u2013 which is chiefly about the protective relationship between father and daughter \u2013 we meet Private K, played by Charles Melton, an American GI in postwar Japan searching for his lost daughter. Private K believes she was taken by a mythical figure known as the Leatherman, who is said to roam Tokyo ripping open girls\u2019 chests with his diamond-studded gloved hands (no prizes for guessing what inspired that particular method of execution).<\/p>\n
The character of Private K came from Refn realising that, while his eldest daughter, Lola, had recently left home, his youngest, Lizzielou, was only 12 and still needed him around. \u201cPrivate K\u2019s story was a cinematic narrative I could cling on to, my fantasy version of what happened to me.\u201d<\/p>\n
Refn\u2019s films often contain echoes from his previous movies, and Her Private Hell is no different, in particular sharing a line from Only God Forgives, in which a father is told: \u201cYou should have protected her.\u201d This clearly taps into a fear of Refn\u2019s: that he won\u2019t be able to. \u201cI call it \u2018dadsploitation\u2019,\u201d he says, with a hint of a smile. \u201cIt\u2019s a form of fetish that appeals to men, that you are basically allowed to indulge in extreme biblical violence to protect innocence, especially when it comes to your daughter. Every father\u2019s worst nightmare is something happening to their daughter of a sexual nature, and it gives a kind of permission: it gives me the authority to tear you to pieces in a biblical way, and I will enjoy every minute of it. Lots of films do it.\u201d<\/p>\n
I did wonder if this message taps into current rightwing tropes: from Trump\u2019s fetishisation of muscle-bound \u201creal men\u201d to the anti-immigrant activists who claim they want to \u201csave our girls\u201d. But Refn says he\u2019s not a politician selling a message. \u201cAll I know is that all humans want a hero. And I believe that for fathers, whether you\u2019re left or right, we all have the same primal instinct inside us.\u201d<\/p>\n
\u2018A Sex Pistol of cinema\u2019 \u2026 Mads Mikkelsen in Pusher. Photograph: Collection Christophel\/Alamy<\/p>\n
He doesn\u2019t seem like a macho guy, though. \u201cI\u2019m a very unmacho guy,\u201d he says. \u201cI love femininity. I love flamboyance. I love camp. I love colour. Her Private Hell is my version of playing with dolls. Everyone\u2019s dressed up in uniforms, I get to move these girls around in fabulous clothes, and I get to take Charles Melton\u2019s shirt off and show his ripped body like an action figure.\u201d<\/p>\n
It\u2019s certainly outrageously camp at times. Elle\u2019s movie mogul father is a ridiculous figure named Johnny Thunders (yes, he\u2019s a Heartbreakers fan) who wears leather trousers and lights matches on his neck stubble. Throughout the film we hear leather garments stretch and bodily joints crack. \u201cI love fetish,\u201d says Refn. \u201cThose sounds are incredibly erotic.\u201d<\/p>\n
Back in the 90s, when Refn was an enfant terrible making the gritty Danish drug drama Pusher, he considered himself \u201ca Sex Pistol of cinema, there to fight for teenagers against the system, making things that would piss off their parents. But you grow out of that because everyone my age starts doing their gardening.\u201d He smiles, then adds. \u201cExcept me, because I don\u2019t garden.\u201d<\/p>\n
Now, he says, the \u201csystem\u201d has been replaced with new enemies: social media, AI, tech overlords. Her Private Hell, Refn says with confidence, is \u201ca movie that AI could never do. It\u2019s the enemy of the algorithm. Because it\u2019s not one movie, it\u2019s five movies in one.\u201d<\/p>\n
\u201cMost entertainment today is like this,\u201d he adds, holding a white napkin up to his face. \u201cA white sheet with codes on it. You don\u2019t even need to pay attention, you can do a lot of other things at the same time. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s particularly healthy for the mind or the soul.\u201d<\/p>\n
\u2018There is no afterlife. I can say that. I didn\u2019t see the light\u2019 \u2026 Refn. Photograph: Suki Dhanda\/The Guardian<\/p>\n
His films, he says, are more like fairytales: simplistic enough to read to a child, yet bottomless in interpretation. \u201cThat\u2019s why people still examine Hans Christian Andersen. But we\u2019ve forgotten this because our entertainment is based on just giving and receiving information.\u201d<\/p>\n
Not everyone agrees with his assessment: reviews for Her Private Hell have been wildly mixed. In fact, it\u2019s hard to think of a film-maker who splits opinion so consistently. Depending on who you listen to, Refn movies are either gorgeously shot, hypnotic meditations on the human psyche, or tedious borefests full of style and zero substance.<\/p>\n
Refn claims not to care. In fact, he says he would hate it if everyone loved his movies. \u201cIt would be devastating. I would be very depressed,\u201d he says. \u201cIf we like something and we all agree on it in this room, it\u2019s as if we don\u2019t like it. But if one likes it and one doesn\u2019t and we end up arguing about it, that\u2019s passion. That means that we have been penetrated.\u201d<\/p>\n
He points to Raging Bull: \u201cCommercially bad. Very divisive at the time. Now you would say, \u2018How can you make anything better?\u2019 Opinions disappear, like tears in the rain, but passion will still exist.\u201d<\/p>\n
He sighs, reflecting on the reaction to his film\u2019s Cannes premiere. \u201cA lot of people had a meltdown again. It\u2019s like, here we go again, \u2018There\u2019s no storyline!\u2019 And I\u2019m like, \u2018You\u2019re so wrong! There\u2019s so much going on, you\u2019re just looking in the wrong places.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n
The kids are far smarter than critics, he says. \u201cThey feel things. Because they\u2019ve been sold artificial whatever on social media and screens. So they will love it or they will hate it. But they do it with such a passion.\u201d<\/p>\n
Critics notwithstanding, Refn seems in a content place right now. Is he actually glad his heart packed in? \u201cI\u2019m so happy, I can\u2019t tell you,\u201d he says. \u201cEvery day I thank God for killing me and bringing me back. Because why make me go through all this if I don\u2019t have a purpose? Now I have a mission.\u201d<\/p>\n
If he gets another 25 years, he says, he will use them to make art, to forge new films from the furnace of his roaring creative fire. After all, he says, there\u2019s nothing else out there. \u201cThere is no afterlife. I can say that. I didn\u2019t see the light. So whatever time you have left, live it now, man.\u201d<\/p>\n
What about all the people who\u2019ve had near-death experiences and claim to have seen the heavenly gates? Refn sniffs and, with no visible irony, says: \u201cThey\u2019ve seen too many movies.\u201d<\/p>\n
Her Private Hell is in cinemas on 25 September<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Nicolas Winding Refn has his phone out, showing me one of the goriest scenes he\u2019s ever been involved…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":898961,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[27],"tags":[49,48,75,337],"class_list":["post-898960","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-movies","tag-ca","tag-canada","tag-entertainment","tag-movies"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/898960","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=898960"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/898960\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/898961"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=898960"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=898960"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ca\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=898960"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}