Tucker Carlson published a new interview with OpenAI CEO Sam Altman on Wednesday in which the two men discussed some pretty dark topics.
During the episode, Carlson and Altman talk about Suchir Balaji, a researcher at OpenAI who died on Nov. 26, 2024. Balaji had accused OpenAI of violating U.S. copyright law a few weeks prior to his death. And while it was ruled a suicide, his mother alleges he was murdered. Carlson had Balaji’s mother, Poornima Ramarao, on his podcast back in January.
Throughout his conversation with Altman, Carlson referred to the 26-year-old whistleblower’s death as a murder, though it was officially ruled a suicide by San Francisco Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, according to the Mercury News.
San Francisco Police Chief Bill Scott said in February that the autopsy report showed “there is insufficient evidence to find Mr. Balaji’s death was the result of homicide.”
Carlson pressed Altman by claiming that Balaji had been murdered.
“So you’ve had complaints from one programmer who said you guys were basically stealing people’s stuff and not paying them. And then he wound up murdered. What was that?” Carlson said, referring to allegations made by Balaji to the New York Times that OpenAI had violated U.S. copyright law.
“Also, a great tragedy, he committed suicide,” Altman said.
Carlson followed up by Altman asking if he really thought Balaji killed himself. Altman replied, “I really do.”
“This was like a friend of mine, this was like a guy that—not a close friend, but this was someone that worked at OpenAI for a very long time,” Altman continued. “I spent… I mean, I was really shaken by this tragedy. I spent a lot of time trying to read everything I could, as I’m sure you and others did, too, about what happened. It looks like a suicide to me.”
“Why does it look like a suicide?” Carlson asked.
“It was a gun he had purchased. It was the—this is like gruesome to talk about, but I read the whole medical record. Does it not look like one to you?” Altman said.
Carlson said he definitely thinks it was murder, claiming there were signs of a struggle, “surveillance wires had been cut,” among other evidence he believes proved there was foul play.
Balaji’s mother has made the claim on X that wires had been cut in the elevator in his apartment building, posting a photo allegedly showing that. Balaji’s mother had a second autopsy conducted and she suggested to the San Francisco Examiner that it “found an injury on the left side of her son’s head, potentially indicating he had been assaulted before he was killed” though she declined to make that report available to the publication.
Carlson also told Altman that Balaji’s mother “believes he was murdered on your orders.” Altman asked Carlson if he believed that, and Carlson tried to avoid answering before saying, “I believe that it’s worth looking into.” Carlson insisted, “I’m not accusing you at all,” after Altman started to say something about being accused and was cut off.
“You understand how this sounds like an accusation…” Altman said.
“Of course. And I, I mean, I certainly… let me just be clear once again, not accusing you of any wrongdoing, but I think it’s worth finding out what happened,” Carlson replied. “And I don’t understand why the city of San Francisco has refused to investigate it beyond just calling it a suicide.”
Police in San Francisco did investigate the death, despite Carlson’s claims, and ruled it a suicide.
Altman said that “his memory and his family deserve to be treated with a level of respect and grief that I don’t quite feel here.” Carlson shot back that he was asking at the behest of his family.
At the time of his death, OpenAI expressed its condolences, writing, “We are devastated to learn of this incredibly sad news and our hearts go out to Suchir’s loved ones during this difficult time,” according to the Guardian.
Elon and Altman
Carlson pivoted to talking about Elon Musk and his attacks on Altman, asking what the “core” of their dispute might be about. Altman talked about how he’s grateful to Musk for helping him start OpenAI. The two men were co-founders before Musk resigned in 2018, and their relationship has been contentious since that time.
After the publication of Carlson’s podcast, Musk wasted no time in wading into this latest controversy, claiming that the whistleblower at OpenAI “was murdered,” in a tweet Thursday.
“There are things about him that are incredible, and I’m grateful for a lot of things he’s done. There’s a lot of things about him that I think are traits I don’t admire,” Altman said.
As Altman puts it, Musk has tried to “slow us down” ever since he got pushed out, filing lawsuits and claiming that OpenAI is betraying its original mission.
Musk sued OpenAI in March 2024 alleging breach of contract. The Tesla CEO claimed that OpenAI had abandoned its original mission of building AI “for the benefit of humanity broadly.” Musk dropped that lawsuit in June 2024 only to revive it again in August 2024.
More recently, Musk’s X and xAI sued OpenAI and Apple in August of this year alleging that the two companies have worked together to hurt Musk’s own AI business with anticompetitive behavior. One of the claims is that Apple favors OpenAI over Grok in its App Store rankings.
God in the machine
When they weren’t talking about Musk, suicide, and murder, things still got very heavy. Carlson spent much of the interview either intentionally hyping the scariness of AI or being genuinely fearful of what it’s capable of.
“It doesn’t seem quite like a machine. It seems like it has the spark of life to it,” Carlson asked, claiming that it has some kind of “autonomy or spirit within it.”
Carlson repeatedly asked Altman about his religious beliefs. Altman said that he’s Jewish, which wasn’t enough for Carlson, who kept probing about whether he believed in God.
“I asked because it seems like the technology that you’re creating or shepherding into existence will have more power than people… on this current trajectory,” Carlson said.
The former Fox News host badgered Altman about where he gets his “moral framework” if not from a higher power.
“I mean, like everybody else, I think the environment I was brought up in probably is the biggest thing. Like my family, my community, my school, my religion, probably that,” Altman said.
It’s actually a bit baffling that Altman agreed to do this interview, given the way that Carlson discusses AI and tech leaders on his show. Carlson often talks about them as godless freaks who are trying to build their own god in the machine. And Altman seemed at times blindsided by the questions about topics like suicide, where Carlson clearly tried to portray Altman as cold and out of touch with the morality of everyday people.
“The beauty of a religion is it admits it’s a religion, and it tells you what it stands for,” Carlson told Altman. “The unsettling part of this technology—not just your company, but others—is that I don’t know what it stands for, but it does stand for something. And unless it admits that and tells us what it stands for, then it guides us in a kind of stealthy way toward a conclusion we may not even know we’re reaching.”
Update Sept. 12, 2025, 5:15 pm ET: This article was updated with more information about the police report as well as Musk’s history of lawsuits against OpenAI.