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\n Steve Dempsey<\/p>\n
JOE ROGAN IS generally regarded as the world\u2019s most successful podcaster.<\/p>\n
That means you either see him as a truth teller, an irresponsible platformer of bad ideas, or the loud mouth from the bar who has somehow amassed 20 million subscribers.<\/p>\n
Maybe he\u2019s all this and more at the same time. But the interesting thing about Rogan isn\u2019t what he thinks, how divisive he is, or who his guests are. It\u2019s how long his conversations last.<\/p>\n
When Donald Trump appeared on his podcast during the 2024 presidential campaign, the conversation lasted almost three hours. Three hours.<\/p>\n
Imagine informing the producers of Morning Ireland that they had to take a single politician for all of one morning\u2019s programme and half of the next day\u2019s. Rogan\u2019s longest episode ran for five hours and 19 minutes.<\/p>\n
And he\u2019s not the only podcaster going long. The average episode among the 25 most popular podcasts in Britain now lasts 54 minutes. In the US, it\u2019s 64 minutes.<\/p>\n
This is a remarkable amount of editorial real estate compared with the typical radio interview.<\/p>\n
It allows disagreement to develop rather than detonate. Somebody can explain why they believe something, touch on historical context, acknowledge an inconvenient fact, qualify their argument and perhaps even change their mind.<\/p>\n
A recent example from Ireland was an episode of Matt Cooper\u2019s Path to Power podcast that featured Leo Varadkar and Senator Conor Murphy talking about the possibility of a United Ireland. It was measured, interesting, and calm.<\/p>\n
It probably helped that the episode was pre-recorded and therefore, decoupled from the daily news agenda. It was 51 minutes long. That\u2019s more than half of one Morning Ireland, if you take away the ads.<\/p>\n
So what\u2019s happening here? If we\u2019re constantly told that audiences have shorter attention spans, how come successful podcasts are growing so long? And can legacy radio learn anything from this trend?<\/p>\n
The reason that podcasts have evolved this way is clear. They\u2019re not beholden to the clock the same way radio shows are. They can take their time. Plus, as they\u2019re often preaching a particular world view to the converted, or focused on a niche topic that interests their listeners, they can keep it up for longer for their audiences.<\/p>\n
Contrast that with a generalist news programme that has to reflect the news of the day, in some instances, set the agenda, and always fit in ten minutes of advertising.<\/p>\n
It\u2019s no wonder that experts on wars, housing crises, migration, climate policy and artificial intelligence are given eight minutes or less to explain things that take a lifetime to understand.<\/p>\n
Or two opposing guests are assembled and fired up to go at each other, with the presenter not acting as a referee, but another aggressor that has to be fended off.<\/p>\n
Occasionally it makes for good radio, but mostly it\u2019s a tired format that\u2019s overly combative and rarely informative.<\/p>\n