Transcript<\/p>\n
ANNOUNCER: This is Planet Money from NPR.<\/p>\n
[COIN SPINNING]<\/p>\n
JEFF GUO: Last year, Jack Bologna was sitting at his desk in Baltimore, when he got the tip that would turn into the biggest story of his career, a sprawling investigation into the mysterious pools of money pouring into the US housing market.<\/p>\n
GIACOMO BOLOGNA: I got a text that said, “Interested in a story about two big investor foreclosures?” question mark.<\/p>\n
GUO: Jack is a local reporter at The Baltimore Banner. He’s always written for local newspapers. Started out in the Midwest writing about meth rings and heroin busts. A couple years ago, he came to Baltimore.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: I cover business and development, which is vague enough that you get to cover a lot of stuff, I feel like, because, you know, what is development?<\/p>\n
GUO: What is development?<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: Well, that’s a great question. If I have to answer that, it might define my view too much.<\/p>\n
GUO: Basically, Jack’s job is to write about how companies and jobs and investment dollars flow in and out of Baltimore, which is how he got this tip. It’s from an anonymous real estate insider who tells him over the phone, apparently, two people, two investors, had been buying up a bunch of homes in Baltimore– mostly old row homes– and now, a lot of those homes were going into foreclosure, ending up on the auction block.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: These folks were from out of town. They had bought so many houses so fast. They had borrowed a huge amount of money. You kind of start, you know, doing the math in your head, and you’re like, oh, this is going to have big ripple effects.<\/p>\n
GUO: So Jack turns around in his chair and starts telling all of this to the housing reporter at The Banner. Her name’s Hallie Miller.<\/p>\n
HALLIE MILLER: Jack is the kind of colleague who gets really excited about things right away. And so he hung up the phone, looked at me, and said, hey, I think I have a huge story here.<\/p>\n
GUO: Hallie had been covering the housing beat in Baltimore for years. Recently, more and more investors had been swooping in, buying old homes here and fixing them up, which, according to Hallie’s sources, was great news for the city. But there was something weird about these particular investors. For one, they kind of came out of nowhere, just a couple years ago. The paperwork had the address of some suburb north of New York City. Were these names well-known in the Baltimore community?<\/p>\n
MILLER: No. No one had ever heard of them.<\/p>\n
GUO: So they were like nobodies?<\/p>\n
MILLER: They were kind of nobodies.<\/p>\n
GUO: Yet– yet, as Jack and Hallie start to piece together the public records, they soon realize that these two people that nobody had ever heard of had quickly and quietly amassed what Jack and Hallie believed to be one of the largest private real estate portfolios in Baltimore, over 700 homes. And of course, these investors weren’t buying the homes with all their own money. They were taking out loans– lots and lots of loans. So Jack and Hallie start building this ginormous spreadsheet, putting in how much each home cost, how much money these investors had borrowed on each one. They add it all up.<\/p>\n
MILLER: We ran the number of, OK, so how much are we talking here? I want to say, we ran it more than once, just to make sure, you know, because you see it once and you’re like, that can’t be right.<\/p>\n
GUO: Somehow, in just the span of a couple of years, these two investors managed to borrow about $100 million. That is when Jack and Hallie realized, something really weird is going on.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: I was like, what the heck, you know?<\/p>\n
GUO: Yeah where did all that money come from? And now, where did it all end up?<\/p>\n
[MUSIC PLAYING]<\/p>\n
GUO: Hello, and welcome to Planet Money. I’m Jeff Guo. As Jack and Hallie started to follow the trail of those $100 million, they would soon realize that they had stumbled across a story that went far beyond just Baltimore. Today on the show, there is a new type of loan that is sweeping through the country right now. It’s advertised as a super quick, super easy way to get a mortgage to buy a home. In recent years, Wall Street has been funneling billions of dollars into these loans. But these loans are also raising questions. Are they a financial innovation that’s helping the housing market or a sign that Wall Street might be forgetting some of the mistakes of the past? The city of Baltimore is famous for its row homes. There are these two or three-story, boxy-looking townhouses that go on for block after block. Row homes make up about half the city’s housing, but a lot of those row homes are not in good shape. The brick is crumbling. The windows are boarded up. But just in the past couple of years, that picture has been changing. Hallie says, suddenly, there was a lot more money available to people who wanted to buy and rehab these homes. Her sources told her a major reason for all this money was this amazing, new type of loan coming from Wall Street.<\/p>\n
MILLER: It was basically a new way for people to get financing that had previously been unable to get it from traditional banks.<\/p>\n
GUO: Hallie had actually been looking into this story that day when Jack told her about these two investors that came out of nowhere and suddenly built this huge portfolio with homes. Those $100 million they had borrowed and now apparently couldn’t pay back, they had gotten that money through this new kind of loan. It’s called a Debt Service Coverage Ratio loan, a DSCR loan.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: When I learned about that, I was like, what the heck is a DSCR loan? What is Debt Service Coverage? What, you know? And then I looked it up and I was like, what the what?<\/p>\n
GUO: A DSCR loan is a type of mortgage, but it’s not your traditional kind of mortgage. It’s a commercial loan. It’s designed for people who want to be landlords, who want to buy a home specifically to rent it out. And unlike a traditional mortgage, a DSCR loan has this very unusual feature. In fact, when Jack first googled it, he came across tons and tons of people talking about it.<\/p>\n
[AUDIO PLAYBACK]<\/p>\n
SPEAKER 1: It’s called a DSCR loan.<\/p>\n
SPEAKER 2: It’s called the DSCR loan.<\/p>\n
SPEAKER 3: –you can buy an investment property without showing any W-2’s, tax returns, or any income at all.<\/p>\n
SPEAKER 4: –literally does not care how much money you make.<\/p>\n
SPEAKER 5: It requires no employment, no income verification. You don’t have–<\/p>\n
SPEAKER 6: –zero, and it’s not a scam.<\/p>\n
[END PLAYBACK]<\/p>\n
GUO: To get a DSCR loan, you don’t need a job. You don’t need to prove any income at all. And when Jack and Hallie first heard about these no-income loans that were sweeping through Baltimore, they were like, how is this even possible? And yeah, here at Planet Money, we all had the same reaction, because remember the global financial crisis? In the run-up to that, banks had been giving out all these easy loans. There were these loans called NINJA loans, which stood for No Income, No Job, no Assets? No problem. You can still get a loan to buy a home. So one of the main things that Congress did after the crash was to really tighten the rules. NINJA loans were basically outlawed. And mortgage lenders are now required to check stuff like your income and your assets and your credit history. So how are these DSCR loans that don’t check your income or your job, how are they even legal? To answer that question, we talked to one of the people responsible for making DSCR loans so popular.<\/p>\n
ERIC ABRAMOVICH: I am Eric Abramovich. I’m co-founder at Roc360.<\/p>\n
GUO: Eric is in the business of making loans to real estate investors. And he says the story of how these DSCR loans got so popular starts back in the early 2010s, right after the financial crisis. That’s when he learns about an interesting exception to the new rules and regulations surrounding mortgage loans.<\/p>\n
ABRAMOVICH: By chance, I met a local private lender here in the New York tri-state area. He was lending to local fix-and-flip investors.<\/p>\n
GUO: Yeah, Eric had met this guy who was lending money to people who buy old homes, fix them up, and try to flip them for a profit. Fix-and-flippers, you know? This is the basis for an entire genre of reality TV. Think about all those shows on HGTV.<\/p>\n
[AUDIO PLAYBACK]<\/p>\n
SPEAKER 7: A year ago, we bought a foreclosed condo at auction, flipped it, and we made 20 Gs in 30 days.<\/p>\n
GUO: To buy these homes, fix-and-flippers were able to take out loans that were actually exempt from most of those new post-financial crisis regulations because these are considered business-type loans. Now, at the time, traditional banks weren’t really doing these types of loans, so the fix-and-flippers went to private lenders. Most of these private lenders were pretty small. A lot of them were just folks lending out their own money, or money that they had pooled together from friends and family. And here is where Eric gets his big idea.<\/p>\n
ABRAMOVICH: We realized that there were hundreds, if not thousands, of private lenders across the country essentially making loans to mom-and-pop real estate investors. And we thought to ourselves, hey, this is a great opportunity. And so when we started our business, the idea was to connect Main Street to Wall Street.<\/p>\n
GUO: Eric’s company started connecting fix-and-flippers to Wall Street. Eric is a finance guy. He used to run a hedge fund, and he knows there is a lot of money out there on Wall Street. You could even say, a giant pool of money. Thanks to Eric’s company, the money from pension funds and insurance companies and sovereign wealth funds started flowing into the fix-and-flip market and helped to supersize it. Now, at first, these loans were mostly short-term loans because, you know, it shouldn’t take more than a year or two to fix and flip a home. But as more and more Wall Street money started flowing in, private lenders realized they could now make longer term loans. They could issue 30-year mortgages. And the private lenders thought that these 30-year mortgages could attract a much bigger market. These longer term mortgages would be perfect for landlords. This was the big innovation. And these longer term mortgages for landlords would soon be called DSCR loans. Around 2018, Eric’s company started to get into them. Do you remember some of the first types of this loan you were doing?<\/p>\n
ABRAMOVICH: Oh, sure. I mean, they sort of sold like hotcakes. I mean, they were very popular loans.<\/p>\n
GUO: This is the moment when DSCR loans go mainstream. Wall Street loved DSCR loans because lenders could charge a higher interest rate, compared to a traditional mortgage. And landlords liked these loans because the borrowing process was so much easier. You didn’t have to bring your W-2 or prove years of income history. Lenders didn’t really care about how much money you had been making, or even how much money you made that year. Why shouldn’t the bank be looking at how much money I’m making?<\/p>\n
ABRAMOVICH: It doesn’t not make sense to look at one’s income, but it’s not necessary. You only really need to focus on the income of the property to make the loan against that property, right, for a DSCR loan.<\/p>\n
GUO: Eric says DSCR loans are business-type loans, so they operate on business logic. For DSCR loans, the main things that private lenders focus on are the landlord’s credit score and the appraisal report, which shows how much the home is worth and the estimated monthly rent. Basically, if the lender thinks that the estimated rental income for this home will cover the mortgage payments, it will approve the loan. Eric says this is the same logic behind the loans that big-time developers get to build office towers and apartment complexes. The bank mainly cares about whether the income from the project will cover the debt payments. That’s why private lenders started calling these new mortgages Debt Service Coverage Ratio loans. Over the past couple of years, these DSCR loans have soared in popularity. Eric says most of the people taking them out are mom-and-pop landlords. And now DSCR loans are one of America’s hottest new mortgage products. In 2021, lenders originated about $20 billion worth of these loans. In 2025, that number more than doubled, to about $50 billion. And a lot of that money was flowing from all over into Baltimore.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: These mortgage lenders are all based across the country– you know, Florida, California, New York.<\/p>\n
GUO: To unravel the mystery of who amassed the massive 700-home real estate portfolio in Baltimore, how they borrowed $100 million so quickly, Jack and Hallie went through the property records. They found that these loans came from dozens of different private lenders with names like Cake Mortgage and Loan Funder LLC. Loan Funder is actually connected to Roc360, to Eric’s company. Jack says he was surprised at how simple and fast this process seems to be.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: This is, like, all done electronically or via phone. They advertise on their websites. They’re like, see how easy it is to get a loan today.<\/p>\n
GUO: And in theory, there is no limit to how many houses you can buy through DSCR loans, a fact that two mysterious landlords from New York were taking full advantage of. And then, starting in late 2024, everything comes crashing down.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: So they’re kind of building this portfolio over a couple years, and then they almost all start going through foreclosure at the same time.<\/p>\n
GUO: Companies associated with one of the landlords declare bankruptcy. And as Jack and Hallie comb through the records from those companies, they begin to notice some suspicious patterns. First of all, they noticed that a lot of these homes weren’t actually getting rented out. Hallie finds a very interesting statement in the bankruptcy records.<\/p>\n
MILLER: One of the first documents in that docket was, I think, a statement from the LLC itself that said, we were only ever able to occupy about a third of the homes.<\/p>\n
GUO: What was your reaction?<\/p>\n
MILLER: I remember asking, so, like, why did they keep buying?<\/p>\n
GUO: Yeah, why were these landlords taking out more loans, buying up more and more homes, if they couldn’t find tenants for the homes they already had?<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: Yeah, you might make the same mistake once, twice, three times, but you don’t make the same mistake 700 times, you know?<\/p>\n
GUO: And then Jack and Hallie noticed something even weirder. These two landlords seemed to be spending way too much money to buy these homes. Like, they were paying double or triple what the homes had sold for just a couple of years before. Jack and Hallie went out to see some of these homes, and they didn’t look recently renovated. They didn’t seem to be worth the new, higher prices. So who the heck were these people who were coming in and paying way too much money for homes in some of the most distressed neighborhoods in Baltimore? At first, there was one name that stood out. His name was Eluzer Gold. He and his LLCs had bought more than 500 of the homes. And Eluzer was kind of a mysterious figure around Baltimore.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: People we talked to, they were like, I’ve never seen this guy, never heard of him, really, until now. And to buy 500 homes in Baltimore, you’d think that he would, you know, be down here more, you know?<\/p>\n
GUO: Jack and Hallie try calling him. They send emails and letters. They reach out to his attorneys. After a few weeks of total silence, they decide that if Eluzer Gold wasn’t coming down to Baltimore, then they would have to go to him. It was time for a road trip. That’s after the break.<\/p>\n
[MUSIC PLAYING]<\/p>\n
KENNY MALONE: Hi, it’s Kenny. Don’t skip ahead just yet. Are you a US company? Are you a regular person? Have you been affected by tariffs? You may be entitled to tariff refunds. Maybe. I don’t know for sure. I don’t know you. I’m Planet Money’s Kenny Malone. The Supreme Court declared President Trump’s IEEPA tariffs invalid. And as of June, Customs and Border Patrol say they’ve paid back over $70 billion in tariff refunds, and we’re looking for your stories. Listeners, if you’re a company, how has the application process gone? If you’re a consumer, have businesses been passing along their refunds to you? Honestly, even if you just have tariff-related questions, call us toll-free by emailing us, planetmoney@npr.org. And for real, we really, really, really want to hear your refund stories. That’s planetmoney@npr.org.<\/p>\n
[SPRING BOINGING]<\/p>\n
GUO: Spring Valley, New York, is about an hour north of Manhattan. It’s a pretty standard-looking suburb. Jack and Hallie pull up at the address they have for Eluzer Gold. It’s an address they have seen over and over on hundreds of pieces of paperwork. Turns out to be this multifamily house. It’s like 9:30 in the morning. Jack walks up and starts knocking on the door. Hallie’s a couple steps behind.<\/p>\n
MILLER: We hear movement. We hear maybe some blinds shuffling from inside the house, like somebody peeking outside the blinds, putting them down.<\/p>\n
GUO: Jack says he hears a side door open.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: So I kind of rush down to see, like, well, who’s getting out of this house?<\/p>\n
MILLER: Then we hear the car behind us start.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: And the car is kind of, like, backing out, you know. And I’m trying to, like, make eye contact with this driver, being like, hey, like, hello.<\/p>\n
GUO: The driver looks a lot like Eluzer Gold. He looks like the one picture they have of the guy.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: He was like, you know, a 40-ish white guy with a beard and wore black.<\/p>\n
GUO: Jack rushes down the driveway toward the car, a big black SUV.<\/p>\n
MILLER: He put himself in front of a moving car and tries to stop the car and tries to get a hold of the driver and is like, hey, wait a minute. Like, are you Eluzer Gold?<\/p>\n
GUO: Now, the way Jack tells this story, nobody was ever in real danger. But Hallie says, no, no, no, Jack almost got run over.<\/p>\n
MILLER: He probably doesn’t want his wife to hear this, but he was definitely in front of the car.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: Yeah, that’s– I don’t think he was going to run me over. I think– well, I think if he ran me over, he probably would have had to stop, and then we could have interviewed him, you know?<\/p>\n
GUO: OK, so maybe Jack is trying to block the path of this SUV with his body, but regardless, the driver just swerves around him and takes off. Looks like they are not going to talk to Eluzer Gold. But Eluzer Gold is not the only name that Jack and Hallie had. They put together a list of people and addresses that seemed to be related to Eluzer Gold. One of them is named Benjamin Eidlisz. According to the property records, Benjamin had bought a bunch of homes in Baltimore and eventually sold more than 100 of them to Eluzer Gold. And Benjamin happens to have an address near Spring Valley, New York. He’s not home, but the doorbell connects Jack and Hallie to Benjamin’s phone, and he agrees to meet them. An hour later, Benjamin pulls up in the parking lot outside his office.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: And rolls down the window, and we start talking to him. And he’s like– he declines to talk on the record.<\/p>\n
GUO: They chat for about five minutes. Jack says it’s not much of a conversation. But he and Hallie notice something, something that would turn out to be a big clue. They’re standing outside Benjamin’s car.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: We were talking to him through the open window. We see on the console– it lights up– that he’s getting a call from Eli Gold.<\/p>\n
GUO: [GASPS]<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: Yeah.<\/p>\n
GUO: And you saw through the window?<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: Yeah. Yeah. [LAUGHS] We learned that Benjamin Eidlisz and Eluzer Gold were definitely connected then.<\/p>\n
GUO: In the end, Jack and Hallie would actually find several links between Benjamin Eidlisz and Eluzer Gold. In fact, in one of the documents, Eluzer Gold lists his address as the same as Benjamin Eidlisz’s home address. These clues were a major breakthrough in Jack and Hallie’s investigation. They seemed to show that Benjamin Eidlisz and Eluzer Gold might have an unusually close connection. Jack and Hallie now have this theory for what might have been going on. And it’s important to say, this is only a theory. You see, there is a type of mortgage scheme out there where two people work together to put one over on the lender or the bank. One person buys a home for pretty cheap. They turn around, sell that home to a close friend. And the trick here is that the friend agrees to buy the home at a super high price, like way higher than the house is actually worth. Maybe they even get an appraiser to say that the house is worth that inflated price. And using that fake price, the friend applies for a really, really big mortgage loan. This scheme, where you conspire to convince a lender to loan you a lot of money for a home that is not actually worth a lot of money, is a type of fraud. And with DSCR loans, where there’s no limit to how many loans you can get, you could, in theory, repeat this fraud over and over and over again. Jack and Hallie say, if the two friends repeat this scam hundreds of times, let’s say, and if they’re able to hide the money that they’ve pocketed, they could walk away with millions of dollars.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: So, yeah, one person gets loaded up with a huge amount of debt, and then at some point, they just start walking away. They just stop paying the mortgages, and all these homes go into foreclosure. But by this point, you’ve already taken out tens of or maybe even $100 million more in loans to buy up all these homes.<\/p>\n
GUO: Jack and Hallie say a fraudulent home valuation scheme would be especially easy to pull off in Baltimore, where some blocks are in good shape, but others are filled with abandoned, vacant homes. And they all might look the same to the private lenders who don’t know Baltimore and who are trying to get these loans done quickly. Last fall, Jack, Hallie, and their colleague, Sahana Jayaraman, published a series of stories about what’s been going on in Baltimore and their suspicions. Though they say it is possible that these landlords were trying their best and just ended up in way over their heads. But recently, they’ve learned that the FBI has opened an investigation into Eluzer Gould and Benjamin Eidlisz and others. Also, private lenders have put those names on a blacklist. By the way, we did reach out to Eluzer Gould and Benjamin Eidlisz. Neither of them would comment. And OK, one way to look at what happened here is, if this was a scam, well, then, it was just a couple of bad actors defrauding some mortgage lenders, right? But maybe some of the responsibility lies with these DSCR loans. Maybe they’re a little too easy to get. Lenders rely on appraisal reports, which, in some cases, can just be one person’s guess about how much a house will rent out for. And maybe some of the responsibility also lies with Wall Street. That giant pool of money is maybe too hungry for opportunities to take bigger risks and make bigger profits. And there is a bit of deja vu here because Wall Street’s hunger for risky mortgages is partly why the financial crisis happened. And as a result, we, as a society, decided that mortgage loans specifically should be less risky. But that was nearly two decades ago. And over the years, Wall Street has slowly rediscovered the allure of riskier, more exotic types of mortgages. Now, we raised these questions with Eric Abramovich, who runs that big private lending operation, who helped popularize these DSCR loans. I feel like there’s a flashback to that time of easy credit, where banks were handing out mortgages like they were lollipops.<\/p>\n
ABRAMOVICH: Yeah, that’s just PTSD. Things are very different today. Most people would argue that credit for housing is still too tight. OK, we made the rules too tight after the financial crisis, and it actually caused backlash, right?<\/p>\n
GUO: Eric argues that the US has a housing shortage right now, so people need access to money to build new homes or to fix up old ones. We need Wall Street to keep making that money available in the form of loans, even if some of those loans end up going bad. In Baltimore, Jack and Hallie told us about $35 million of the $100 million in bad loans came from private lenders associated with Eric’s company. Are you aware of what’s happening there? Or like, how should we think about that– like, that situation?<\/p>\n
ABRAMOVICH: Well, you know, some of the things they say on Wall Street, if you’re lending and you have no defaults, you’re doing something wrong.<\/p>\n
GUO: Eric said, look, some loans do go bad. But overall, across the country, most DSCR loans still seem to be doing fine. And that is what the data show right now. DSCR loans are a small fraction of the overall mortgage market. They represent, like, maybe 2% of new mortgage loans for single-family homes these days. But these loans are rapidly growing in popularity. And if they become a much bigger part of the mortgage market, and these flaws get magnified, we might see regulators step in. Recently, Jack and Hallie took us to see some of the homes that the investors at the heart of the story bought up and then abandoned.<\/p>\n
MILLER: We are on our way to Etting Street.<\/p>\n
GUO: The 2400 block of Etting Street is part of a historically Black neighborhood in Baltimore. A couple years ago, Eluzer Gold’s LLC bought 20 red brick row houses here, all on one side of the street. Last year, they went into foreclosure.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: Oh, yeah. This is us. Yeah.<\/p>\n
MILLER: This is us. Yeah.<\/p>\n
GUO: This is it?<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: Yeah.<\/p>\n
GUO: As we turn onto the block, Jack spots something.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: Oh, one of them’s burned. Whoa. Yeah, that’s new.<\/p>\n
GUO: We get out and walk over to this burnt-out rowhouse, stepping over broken glass and debris. The front door of this house is hanging open, the inside, completely charred.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: It smells terrible. Yeah.<\/p>\n
MILLER: It’s awful, really awful.<\/p>\n
GUO: The homes next to it are all boarded up. When Jack and Hallie visited last year, this side of the street was in much better shape. There were even some tenants living here. But after the landlord stopped paying the mortgage and the homes went up for auction, nobody wanted to buy them. So they just sat here, effectively abandoned. Across the street, there are a few neighbors sitting on their stoops. They tell us, yeah, this fire just happened last week.<\/p>\n
LISA REVLON: The other day, it started around 3:00, 3:30.<\/p>\n
JEAN HENRY: Yeah, I was in my window watching it.<\/p>\n
GUO: Lisa Revlon and Jean Henry have been living on this block for about 15 years. Lisa says, in the beginning, this was a nice block. It was full of families and children. And it’s still kind of that way on their side of the street. But on the other side, it’s a different story, especially after the new owners came in.<\/p>\n
MILLER: Would you say the– this side of the street has gotten worse in the last year?<\/p>\n
HENRY: Yes.<\/p>\n
REVLON: Yes. You can look at it. Yeah.<\/p>\n
MILLER: Yeah.<\/p>\n
REVLON: Yeah, it’s got worse.<\/p>\n
HENRY: They don’t take care of their outside, you know? Look, look, look, overgrown.<\/p>\n
GUO: Lisa and Jean told us they’re used to landlords coming and going, but the new landlords on the other side of the block, they never really seemed to care.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: How does it make you feel that all of these people, not from Baltimore, all of these investors, or whatever, in New York, are just buying and trading these homes–<\/p>\n
HENRY: Yeah, I know.<\/p>\n
GUO: –like over your head?<\/p>\n
HENRY: Like a Monopoly game. We playing Monopoly.<\/p>\n
REVLON: This is a good investment. But again, they live in New York. They don’t care. They don’t even live here.<\/p>\n
GUO: That’s the dilemma in Baltimore. There are a lot of homes that need investment, that need people to come in and fix them up, make them livable. But after what happened to these 700 homes, some private lenders have stopped lending in Baltimore altogether. Now it’s gotten harder in Baltimore to get a DSCR loan, which means all those crumbling row homes are still sitting there, waiting to be fixed up.<\/p>\n
[MUSIC PLAYING]<\/p>\n
GUO: Thank you, as always, to our NPR+ supporters. Things are a little chaotic right now, and your regular support helps us be more ambitious, more focused on the work. You make the show better. And if you want to sign up to show your support, plus.npr.org. That’s plus.npr.org. Thanks so much. By the way, Lisa Revlon, halfway through our conversation with her, Jack and Hallie realized she’s the Lisa Revlon, as in the House of Revlon. She is a legend of the ballroom scene.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: Lisa Revlon or–<\/p>\n
REVLON: Yeah. [LAUGHS]<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: Wow, you’re really underselling.<\/p>\n
MILLER: Wait. Oh, my god.<\/p>\n
REVLON: My life– yeah, because my life is more than just ballroom, you know what I’m saying? And–<\/p>\n
GUO: By pure coincidence, Lisa was actually profiled last year by The Banner, by another one of their reporters, Alissa Zhu, who happens to be married to Jack.<\/p>\n
BOLOGNA: Yeah, that’s my wife there.<\/p>\n
REVLON: That’s– oh, my god, that’s– oh, my god, I love her. She was telling me about– oh, my god. Give me a hug.<\/p>\n
GUO: We’re going to link to all the stories we mentioned in our show notes. This episode was produced by Sam Yellowhorse Kesler and edited by Jess Jiang. It was fact-checked by Sierra Juarez and engineered by Travis Hagen and Cena Loffredo. Alex Goldmark is our executive producer. I’m Jeff Guo. This is NPR. Thanks for listening.<\/p>\n
[MUSIC PLAYING]<\/p>\n
Copyright \u00a9 2026 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use<\/a> and permissions<\/a> pages at www.npr.org<\/a> for further information.<\/p>\n \n Accuracy and availability of NPR transcripts may vary. Transcript text may be revised to correct errors or match updates to audio. Audio on npr.org may be edited after its original broadcast or publication. The authoritative record of NPR\u2019s programming is the audio record.\n <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Transcript ANNOUNCER: This is Planet Money from NPR. [COIN SPINNING] JEFF GUO: Last year, Jack Bologna was sitting…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":622944,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[11],"tags":[72,113,61,60],"class_list":["post-622943","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-economy","tag-business","tag-economy","tag-ie","tag-ireland"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/622943","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=622943"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/622943\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/622944"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=622943"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=622943"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=622943"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}