Welcome to Random Roles, wherein we talk to actors about the characters who defined their careers. The catch: They don\u2019t know beforehand what roles we\u2019ll ask them to talk about.<\/p>\n
The actor: Strangers sometimes need a minute to determine how they know Josh Pais. Pais, who was raised in New York City, has done memorable work in high-profile streaming limited series (The Dropout), Oscar-nominated acting showcases (Joker), and long-running television institutions (Law & Order). Now, in Checkout, a nimble, poignant dark comedy, Pais stars as an aging Mossad spy who desperately tries to prove his relevance in a Turkish hotel. The movie premieres theatrically Thursday at New York City\u2019s Quad Cinema. Speaking to The A.V. Club, Pais broke down this and a handful of his other roles from nearly 40 years on screen.\u00a0<\/p>\n
The A.V. Club: Your first onscreen role seems to be The Cosby Show.\u00a0<\/p>\n
JP: That was my first TV role. The first thing on camera I did was a movie called Jacknife with De Niro. [Pais\u2019 episode of The Cosby Show aired in February 1988; Jacknife opened in theaters in March 1989.]<\/p>\n
JP: \u00a0I believe it was at Silvercup. I auditioned upstairs somewhere in a small room. And then they told me, \u201cYou\u2019re gonna go downstairs.\u201d And they brought me and two other actors that also ended up being on the show to [Cosby\u2019s] office. They didn\u2019t tell me I had it. I was shaking hands and sitting there. I think he was smoking a cigar and he was very relaxed. And we were just talking. And I was like, \u201cAm I gonna do it again or what?\u201d It was just incredibly welcoming and relaxed.\u00a0<\/p>\n
I do have to say that I did learn something from him. It\u2019s such taboo territory, but I\u2019ll just tell you. When you\u2019re doing a sitcom like that, it\u2019s five days: you come in, you rehearse a little bit, you rehearse a little bit, you rehearse a little bit. And I was really struck that he let it unfold. He was not pushing for any comedy. And then by Friday night, it was all there. That was a real lesson, to let the work unfold.<\/p>\n
AVC: What was it like working with him in front of a camera, in front of an audience?\u00a0<\/p>\n
JP: All of a sudden there was a feeling like anything could happen. He was riffing within the lines, which led me to riff within them. It was very spontaneous. We did two tapings, and they were a little different. For me, the thing I love the most is to let it unfold in the moment, because that\u2019s what this art form is. It\u2019s got to be created in the moment. We have to avoid the temptation to bring in \u201cthis is what it is,\u201d which feels safer, but the audience isn\u2019t interested in that.<\/p>\n
AVC: Did your career get any help from that appearance? You have quite a bit of screen time.<\/p>\n
JP: It was mostly that people in the neighborhood were like, \u201cHey, hey.\u201d I grew up in Alphabet City in New York City. I wouldn\u2019t say it was a rocket ship, but it was a bump.<\/p>\n
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990)\u2014\u201dRaphael\u201d\/\u201dPassenger In Cab\u201d<\/p>\n
\ufeff\ufeff<\/p>\n
JP: My agent called and said, \u201cWe have an audition for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.\u201d I had him say that three times because I couldn\u2019t put all those words together. Then he said, \u201cAnd it\u2019s an audition to be a turtle.\u201d And that was more bizarre. But I\u2019d started out early on in my career doing very experimental theater, very physical, raw theater. I was like, \u201cOkay.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n
I went in. At first, I was thinking, how do turtles move? And they kind of have their hands splayed back and push themselves forward. And that combined with people in my neighborhood that would move their arms, like, away from their body and to make themselves bigger and tougher, because it was such a dangerous neighborhood. People were walking around as if they were ready for action and almost making themselves look stronger than they were. So I played with that in the audition, that physicality. And I threw in a martial arts kick. From about nine to 13 I would get mugged all the time in the city. It was normal. Then I started doing martial arts, and then nobody ever bothered me after that, because it extended my awareness outward. So I threw in a bit of a little flying kick or jump kick. That began the journey.\u00a0<\/p>\n
AVC: People might say, \u201cOh, you\u2019re just in a turtle costume for an hour and a half.\u201d But it seemed like there was meat on the bone.\u00a0<\/p>\n
JP: Absolutely. Honestly, I don\u2019t do Comic-Cons very often, but every now and then if all the other guys get together, I\u2019ll be like, \u201cOk, I\u2019ll do it.\u201d People come up to me at those things, and they say, \u201cThat character saved my childhood.\u201d \u201cYou were my childhood.\u201d A lot of them had very tough homes and dealt with all kinds of stuff. And they say, \u201cRaphael, because he was dealing with so much angst, helped me deal with my angst.\u201d That whole movie meant so much, deeply, to so many people.<\/p>\n
AVC: The physical part of the role, being in that 70-pound costume, how did that help you down the line as an actor?\u00a0<\/p>\n
JP: From morning to lunch break, we would lose five pounds. It was so incredibly intense. It felt like your blood was boiling. I used the intensity of being in that suit to create with. It helped me create the angst, the agony, everything that Raphael was going through. I let it emerge from my pores, through Raphael\u2019s pores. Going forward from that, it taught me to trust [that] what I was experiencing in my body was the perfect juice for the character in that moment.<\/p>\n
AVC: After TMNT, in terms of your onscreen work, there\u2019s a six-year break.<\/p>\n
JP: I was on Broadway for two years in I\u2019m Not Rappaport. I don\u2019t know if that lines up in that gap. Many years ago, as an exploration of acting or finding out how I would work, I trained with people, from all over the world, that were physically-based, impulse-based. After that two-year journey, people started asking me to teach. Then NYU asked me to teach. I was like, \u201cOkay, I\u2019ll try.\u201d It turned out that I have a talent that I didn\u2019t know that I had. From that, I developed something called Committed Impulse<\/a>, which I\u2019ve been teaching on and off throughout my acting career. It\u2019s a laboratory for actors that want to be present and create in the present moment and step into the unknown. Over the years, people from all professions have been coming to train with me. Now I do maybe three or four weekend workshops a year.<\/p>\n Checkout (2026)\u2014\u201dDov\u201d<\/p>\n \ufeff\ufeff\ufeff<\/p>\n The A.V. Club: What was it like to be the lead in a movie?<\/p>\n Josh Pais: Honestly, I started out doing lots of small roles, particularly in Law & Order, and maybe this is arrogance or maybe it was my way to commit fully, but I have always treated everything like I was the main character in a sense so that I could create, regardless of the size of the role, somebody that has a full life and we\u2019re just seeing a sliver of it.\u00a0<\/p>\n But to directly answer your question, I loved being the lead. I loved having that kind of creative control. They also brought me on as a producer. So, it was absolutely fantastic. I\u2019ve done several movies where I have had a lead role, but this one I was in every single scene. That\u2019s new for me and I loved it.<\/p>\n AVC: Was it overwhelming to make that world so big for a character who is literally in every scene?<\/p>\n JP: It was not overwhelming. It was delicious, to be honest. When I first started out, it was like, here\u2019s my one bump, make it as rich as possible. With this, it was more about taking time and in a sense, inviting the audience in to figure things out, where I don\u2019t have to, you know, shoot my load in the first scene.<\/p>\n Sex And The City (1998)\u2014\u201dNick Waxler\u2014AKA \u2018The Modelizer’\u201d<\/p>\n \ufeff\ufeff\ufeff<\/p>\n JP: When it started playing on Netflix, a lot of people that knew me or knew my work but didn\u2019t know I was on that put those pieces together. It\u2019s similar to Raphael. It\u2019d be like, \u201cYou\u2019re Raphael?!\u201d or \u201cYou\u2019re The Modelizer?!\u201d That was more of a career bump, because that show was also iconic and big.\u00a0<\/p>\n I remember hanging out with Sarah Jessica [Parker] and Chris Noth and being like, \u201cHey, this is fun.\u201d Because I was in the second episode [ever], my character would talk through the fourth wall. They were still finding the vibe of the show. And all those lines were so fantastic. God, one of them: \u201cSome people think I\u2019m shallow, but hey, I\u2019m fucking a model.\u201d Just a great line.<\/p>\n AVC: Did that role help you socially or were women repulsed when they saw you?\u00a0<\/p>\n JP: No, they were into it\u2014or maybe the ones that didn\u2019t talk to me were repulsed. But the ones that did talk to me were like, \u201cOh my god, you\u2019re The Modelizer.\u201d It was helpful.<\/p>\n Rounders (1998)\u2014\u201dWeitz\u201d<\/p>\n Leaves Of Grass (2009)\u2014\u201dKen Feinman\u201d<\/p>\n Motherless Brooklyn (2019)\u2014\u201dWilliam Lieberman\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n \ufeff\ufeff\ufeff<\/p>\n AVC: I suspect that Rounders, even though you have a very small role, was influential because of who you worked with. Was that the first time you met Edward Norton?<\/p>\n JP: That was the first time I met Edward. After that we became close friends and are still close friends.<\/p>\n AVC: How did you and Edward Norton click?\u00a0<\/p>\n JP: Creatively, we were just in that dance and really connected to one another. On a lunch break, I sat with him and Matt Damon and shot the shit. Then I remember running into Edward in L.A. and we just chatted for a few minutes and that was that. It\u2019s really when Leaves Of Grass came around where I have a central role in that opposite him\u2014opposite two versions of him because he\u2019s playing twins. We really connected and hit it off. We were in Shreveport, Louisiana, and we would just hang out and go fishing. It created a great friendship.<\/p>\n AVC: Did that lead to Motherless Brooklyn?<\/p>\n JP: Yeah. He said, \u201cI got this part for you,\u201d and so we jumped in.<\/p>\n AVC: What\u2019s the difference between working with Edward Norton in a scene and him being your director?\u00a0<\/p>\n JP: It was almost richer. We really talked about the role. He welcomed my input. He sent me an early version of the script, and I gave him some thoughts. He was extremely able, more than anyone I\u2019ve worked with, to be in a key role and direct seamlessly. When he was in the scene, he was in the scene. And then when he cut, he was fully in director mode and then coming back. But it never felt like he was within the scene.<\/p>\n There wasn\u2019t a ton of direction. There was some intensity because it was starting to become clear with Bruce Willis that he was having some trouble. It was before it came out more publicly<\/a>. We all were like, \u201cOk, we\u2019re going to rally together and make this happen.\u201d<\/p>\n We started on a Monday. Me and Bruce Willis and Fisher Stevens and Edward had a meeting about what we\u2019re filming that first day. And there was a lot of choreography with cars and coming out of buildings. Edward had this map of the street and talked about the history and what\u2019s going to be required on that day in terms of cars and everything. He was really well-organized. After that, Bruce asked a question\u2014it didn\u2019t land. All of a sudden, it was like the synapses were not quite firing. We realized that he was going through something. And there were times where it was just tricky with holding lines. We all rallied around him because it\u2019s Bruce Willis. He\u2019s such an icon, and somebody that we all love and respect as an artist. It added another dimensionality to the connectivity between everybody.<\/p>\n Nobody was freaking out. And Edward was really calm, but it summoned all of our compassion. Because it\u2019s a fear of so many actors\u2014you\u2019re on set and can\u2019t remember your lines\u2014and here was that embodied on a certain level. It brought everybody closer. It forced us to have to do filmmaking in a slightly different way. But Bruce\u2019s heart and just talking to him\u2014[he] is such a beautiful, great guy.<\/p>\n The Station Agent (2003)\u2014\u201dCarl\u201d<\/p>\n \ufeff\ufeff\ufeff\ufeff<\/p>\n