{"id":684658,"date":"2026-11-14T17:50:15","date_gmt":"2026-11-14T17:50:15","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/684658\/"},"modified":"2026-11-14T17:50:15","modified_gmt":"2026-11-14T17:50:15","slug":"a-producers-role-in-a-rap-record-is-different-to-what-it-is-in-a-rock-record-how-rick-rubin-broke-the-mould-as-a-producer-and-record-company-mogul-and-why-he-rate","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/684658\/","title":{"rendered":"\u201cA producer\u2019s role in a rap record is different to what it is in a rock record\u201d: How Rick Rubin broke the mould as a producer and record company mogul \u2013 and why he rates Mutt Lange as the GOAT"},"content":{"rendered":"

<\/p>\n

Back in the early \u201980s, when he was still a teenager, Rubin had co-founded the Def Jam label with Russell Simmons. The first album release on Def Jam was Radio by New York rapper LL Cool J.<\/p>\n

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I Can’t Live Without My Radio – YouTube
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This was followed by groundbreaking releases such as Public Enemy’s Yo! Bum Rush The Show, the Beastie Boys\u2019 Licensed To Ill and Slayer\u2019s thrash metal masterpiece Reign In Blood.<\/p>\n

In addition, Rubin and Simmons had co-produced Run-DMC\u2019s Raising Hell, the first million-selling hip-hop album. Independently, Rubin had also produced The Cult\u2019s Electric, one of the definitive hard rock records of the late \u201980s.<\/p>\n

You may like<\/p>\n

In 1989, at the age of 25, Rubin was busy establishing Def American as a major force with acclaimed debut albums by heavy rock acts Danzig and Masters Of Reality. This was before the label had its first big hit album in 1990 with The Black Crowes\u2019 debut Shake Your Money Maker, produced by Rubin\u2019s right hand man George Drakoulias.<\/p>\n

Rubin conducted his interview with Sounds in a lounge room in his white-walled house overlooking the Sunset Strip. The room was furnished simply with a bed, an exercise bike and a stereo.<\/p>\n

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Before settling into this conversation, he played a tape of raw mixes of the debut album from British rockers Wolfsbane, titled Live Fast, Die Fast.<\/p>\n

Rubin briefly exited the room, explaining that he wasn\u2019t going to listen to the tape for at least a week so that he could take a step back from it and judge it more objectively. But after just one track, he returned to sit on the bed, his legs crossed, his hairy head nodding and his fingers twitching in sync with Wolfsbane\u2019s high-energy, Van Halen-inspired riffs.<\/p>\n

Rubin began the conversation by recalling how he and Russell Simmons created the Def Jam label with very little in the way of finance.<\/p>\n

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\u201cI really started Def Jam from practically no money,\u201d he said. \u201cI think Russell and I contributed maybe 2,000 dollars each, which is not a lot of money. We did seven one-off singles and we got picked up by CBS, purely because we\u2019d sold a lot, and not because anybody at CBS liked the music.<\/p>\n

\u201cLL Cool J\u2019s I Need A Beat was the first official Def Jam record, although the logo was on a record I produced by T La Rock and Jazzy Jay called It\u2019s Yours. That was made in \u201982 or \u201983, before I met Russell. It was my first rap record.\u201d<\/p>\n

T La Rock & DJ Jazzy Jay – It’s Yours – YouTube
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Rubin defined rap as \u201cblack rock \u2019n\u2019 roll\u201d.<\/p>\n

He stated: \u201cWe\u2019ve seen the white audience fooled before, with a lot of commercial pop crap that people hear so many times that they go out and buy the records. With black music that doesn\u2019t work. With black music it\u2019s either in the grooves or it\u2019s not in the grooves. If it is, you have hits, and if not, you don\u2019t. I think rock music should be more like that.\u201d<\/p>\n

Rubin\u2019s love of both rap and rock was evident in the early records he produced. LL Cool J\u2019s Radio used crunchy guitar punctuation. Likewise, Run-DMC\u2019s Raising Hell, with its cover of Aerosmith\u2019s Walk This Way. And, of course, the Beasties\u2019 Licensed To Ill with its multiple classic rock samples.<\/p>\n

Rubin didn\u2019t just produce and arrange the Beasties\u2019 Licensed To Ill; he wrote much of the album. But he baulked at the idea that Licensed To Ill was his project and the Beasties were merely fronting it.<\/p>\n

He shrugged: \u201cI think one of the main breakdowns in our relationship was them not feeling comfortable with people thinking that \u2013 regardless of whether it was true. It\u2019s weird, because people don\u2019t look at Madonna and wonder whether she played the guitar solo or wrote the songs. I don\u2019t know that the Beastie Boys were comfortable with what they were. I heard they’re making a record on their own now. I guess they want to find out what it\u2019ll be like without me.\u201d<\/p>\n

He continued: \u201cLicensed To Ill was a group effort. We all had input. Musically, a lot of the time, I would go into the studio and do tracks on my own and they\u2019d come in and do the lyrics. No Sleep Till Brooklyn I didn\u2019t like as a song title, but that was very much Beasties.\u201d<\/p>\n

Beastie Boys – No Sleep Till Brooklyn – YouTube
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In Rubin\u2019s experience, rock artists were more self-sufficient than rappers.<\/p>\n

He explained: \u201cI co-wrote everything on [LL Cool J\u2019s] Radio and most of everything on the Beastie Boys album. Wolfsbane is different. They came to see me with more of an idea of what Wolfsbane is about. But that\u2019s typical of how a producer\u2019s role in a rap record is different to what it is in a rock record.<\/p>\n

\u201cOn a rock record, a producer\u2019s job is to arrange, get the best performance out of the artist and get the sound as good as it can be. Whereas on a rap record a producer is often responsible for the tracks.\u201d<\/p>\n

He added: \u201cAlso, the experience of having done rap or any kind of black music makes the rock records that much better. That was the case with Mutt Lange. When he produced AC\/DC, he\u2019d only produced R&B music before. He didn\u2019t even like rock \u2019n\u2019 roll. And he\u2019s since gone on to become probably the greatest rock \u2019n\u2019 roll producer of all time.\u201d<\/p>\n

In 1989 Def American was a pure rock label.<\/p>\n

\u201cMy interest in rap isn\u2019t as great as it was because it\u2019s not new any more,\u201d Rubin said. \u201cBut if I hear something new that knocks me out, then sure, I\u2019d love to be involved.\u201d<\/p>\n

It was in 1988 that a rift opened up in the Def Jam organisation which finally separated Simmons and Rubin. This could be explained simply, Rubin said.<\/p>\n

\u201cOver the history of Def Jam, I typically made the hard rap records and Russell typically made R&B records. His tastes were growing in a more commercial R&B direction, and mine were going in a more hard-edged direction, whether it was rap or rock.<\/p>\n

\u201cLegally, myself and Russell still haven\u2019t separated. Russell always had his projects and I had mine. We\u2019re still good friends, but I thought it best that we each realised our own dreams and, since he didn\u2019t want to leave Def Jam, I left!\u201d<\/p>\n

Rubin had continued to work with Slayer. In 1988 he produced South Of Heaven, the follow-up to Reign In Blood.<\/p>\n

He told Sounds about his deep admiration for the band.<\/p>\n

\u201cI signed Slayer to Def Jam about a year before Reign In Blood came out,\u201d he said. \u201cI\u2019d never heard them before and I went to a New Music Seminar show. Megadeth opened and the audience was spitting on them. I thought they were terrible!\u201d<\/p>\n

He continued: \u201cI\u2019d already gone through my fast phase. Hardcore punk music was all I listened to three years earlier. And one day the speed thrill just ended for me. I started listening to Black Sabbath pitched all the way down on my stereo.<\/p>\n

\u201cFast music didn\u2019t interest me at all, and then Slayer made it exciting again. What impressed me at their show was they had 2,000 kids completely in love with them and they didn\u2019t care. They weren’t posing. I remember Tom [Araya, bassist\/vocalist] walked back to get a drink of water really slow. It impressed me how at ease they were in front of so many people so early in their career.\u201d<\/p>\n

Rubin played a key role in Slayer\u2019s rise. Before he got involved, the band\u2019s 1985 album Hell Awaits was soaked in reverb, but on Reign In Blood there was a clarity that made for greater impact.<\/p>\n

During the recording of Reign In Blood, Slayer\u2019s performances were so intense and furious that the album\u2019s planned length was cut by an incredible five or six minutes.<\/p>\n

\u201cWe weren’t trying to control it,\u201d Rubin said. \u201cAs long as it sounded good, we just let it go.\u201d<\/p>\n

The band said that Rubin had demanded: \u201cMore Satan!\u201d<\/p>\n

Rubin laughed: \u201cThey were getting away from their roots! I love it when bands explore a new direction, but I also like to ensure that they deliver a certain amount of what a fan expects. I mean, they laughed when I said that about \u2018more Satan\u2019.\u201d<\/p>\n

Rubin produced all of the early releases on Def American, which he discussed in turn in the Sounds interview.<\/p>\n

The label\u2019s flagship release was the self-titled debut album from Danzig, a quartet led by ex-Misfits and Samhain vocalist Glenn Danzig and specialising in doom-laden heavy rock.<\/p>\n

Rubin said proudly: \u201cGlenn listens to soundtrack music a lot and that\u2019s what Danzig\u2019s music is all about \u2013 tension. Recently, their playing has gotten to a machine-like state. I signed Danzig after seeing the band live. They blew me away. I never liked the Misfits, but being convinced by the live performance, I listened to the old records and I really liked his vocals. He\u2019s a great singer-songwriter.\u201d<\/p>\n

Masters Of Reality\u2019s debut album was also self-titled, but is sometimes known as The Blue Garden after one of its key tracks and its cover art. The band, from Syracuse, New York, were led by vocalist\/guitarist Chris Goss, who later worked with Josh Homme as producer of both Kyuss and Queens Of The Stone Age.<\/p>\n

Masters Of Reality took their name from a Black Sabbath album and their cues from Cream and The Doors.<\/p>\n

As Rubin freely admitted: \u201dThey sound like a throwback, but they\u2019ve been doing what they\u2019re doing for so long that this is just what they are. There are a lot of young bands now who have a \u201970s sound \u2013 they\u2019re throwbacks. The Masters were playing this shit in the \u201970s, so they\u2019re kinda staying where they are. And it\u2019s a deep album.\u201d<\/p>\n

British heavy metal band Wolfsbane were fronted by Blaze Bayley, who would go on to replace Bruce Dickinson in Iron Maiden. Rubin signed Wolfsbane after no major record company in the UK showed any interest.<\/p>\n

\u201cIt\u2019s a poor reflection on Britain that they didn\u2019t get a deal,\u201d Rubin said. \u201cBut if they had, I don\u2019t know how great it would\u2019ve been for them. We went through a lot to get them where they are now, and without that time spent developing the Wolfsbane sound, they\u2019d still probably sound pretty much like their first EP (the independently-released Wasted But Dangerous]. Songs come and go but artists stay, and that\u2019s what I base my signings on. I want great albums.\u201d<\/p>\n

Rubin also extended Def American\u2019s reach by signing controversial comedian Andrew Dice Clay and producing his live album Dice. Rubin compared Clay to another notorious American comedian of that era, Sam Kinison.<\/p>\n

\u201cAndrew Dice Clay is, in a lot of ways, more offensive than Sam Kinison,\u201d Rubin said. \u201cBut Dice can appeal to a wider audience because, disgusting as he is, he’s preaching a lot of redneck values, whereas Kinison preaches a lot of rock \u2019n\u2019 roll attitude. I mean, taking drugs isn’t even a rock \u2019n\u2019 roll attitude any more, so Kinison is really limiting himself.\u201d<\/p>\n

He added: \u201cDef American is probably the only label that would put Dice\u2019s record out. And I think it fits.\u201d<\/p>\n

Asked if Def American had a collective identity, Rubin replied: \u201cThere\u2019s a thread. I produce all the records, so there\u2019s an identifiable sound, although that may change when more bands are signed and other producers are needed.\u201d<\/p>\n

Rubin\u2019s own production hallmarks were a streamlined power and a spartan, crystalline definition. He stripped each group\u2019s sound to its essence, never more so than with The Cult on Electric.<\/p>\n

The Cult – Love Removal Machine HD – YouTube
\n\"The<\/p>\n

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\u201cI tried to make The Cult sound like a rock \u2019n\u2019 roll band,\u201d he said. \u201cI know a lot of people like The Manor Sessions [an earlier version of the Electric album, produced by Steve Brown], but that\u2019s not rock \u2019n\u2019 roll as I know it.\u201d<\/p>\n

Rubin also talked about his work with legendary singer Roy Orbison on the song Life Fades Away from the soundtrack to cult movie Less Than Zero. The song was written by Orbison with Glenn Danzig.<\/p>\n

This collaboration was a sign of what was to come when Rubin produced other iconic veteran artists such as Johnny Cash, Donovan and Neil Diamond.<\/p>\n

Rubin told Sounds: \u201cI really enjoyed producing that song for Roy Orbison, with strings and choir back-up. I really liked him. He was a great guy, no pretensions, no difficulty. I went to Roy\u2019s house with Glenn Danzig. Glenn had written the song. We practised it and Roy changed some of the words to fit his personality.<\/p>\n

“It was unusual for me working with someone from that era. The majority of people I\u2019ve worked with are in their late teens or early twenties. If anything, it was easier working with Roy, because young artists are so headstrong and sometimes it\u2019s hard to help them, whereas Roy believed in himself enough to try different things.\u201d<\/p>\n

Roy Orbison – Life Fades Away – YouTube
\n\"Roy<\/p>\n

Watch On <\/a><\/p>\n

At the end of the Sounds interview, Rubin looked to the future.<\/p>\n

\u201cI couldn’t be any more hands-on,\u201d he said. \u201cI need to develop a system where I don\u2019t have to focus on things that I shouldn\u2019t, like guitar strings. But think it\u2019s good that I have a relationship with my bands where they call me about everything. That helps.<\/p>\n

\u201cOn a regular record label, there are different departments: A&R, marketing, video \u2013 and very rarely do they all tie together. I think it\u2019s important that the whole package stems out of the band, and I like to see projects through from beginning to end.\u201d<\/p>\n

And what was it that best defined Rick Rubin and Def American?<\/p>\n

He said it very simply: \u201dI have pretty aggressive tastes.\u201d<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Follow us Add us as a preferred source on Google Newsletter Subscribe to our newsletter In the early…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":684659,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[28],"tags":[93,61,60,278],"class_list":["post-684658","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-music","tag-entertainment","tag-ie","tag-ireland","tag-music"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/684658","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=684658"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/684658\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/684659"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=684658"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=684658"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/ie\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=684658"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}