Melinda French Gates appeared in a wide-ranging interview on NPR’s “Wild Card” podcast.The episode, hosted by Rachel Martin, aired in full on February 5.In the conversation, Melinda spoke about her ex-husband, Bill Gates, and shared insight as to whether she’d forgiven him for his mistakes in their marriage of 27 years.

Amid the U.S. Department of Justice’s latest release of the Epstein files—which included emails mentioning Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates—his ex-wife Melinda French Gates is opening up in a new interview about whether she’s forgiven him or not.

In a new episode of NPR’s “Wild Card” podcast aired in full on February 5, Melinda spoke about many topics with host Rachel Martin, including her former husband of 27 years. Bill’s name came up in newly released emails from convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, and speaking about trust, Melinda told Martin that after the dissolution of her marriage to Bill, she “thought it might never happen for me again.”

Melinda French Gates on April 15, 2025.

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“I trusted myself, though,” she added. “But I have learned that, that with the right person, you can, and it’s baby steps at first, and you build on that and you see it and you test it, and then you can find it.”

Asked by Martin if she was “good at forgiveness,” Melinda responded, “Yes, I think I am,” adding, “But I’ve learned that forgiveness can take a long time, and you can’t rush it.”

“But ultimately, I really seek forgiveness with everybody, because if you can’t eventually forgive somebody, then you hurt yourself, I think,” Melinda said. “I forgive them, but I don’t need to be in touch with them anymore.” She continued, “but if I can forgive what happened and also try a little bit and see their side of it, then I can move on.”

Melinda French Gates in New York City on September 10, 2025.

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After being asked if she had forgiven Bill, she said, “I think I’m gonna keep that one to myself,” later calling it a “work in progress” and adding, “I think I’m getting there.”

Melinda and Bill—who share three kids together—announced their divorce in 2021. Factors in the split included Bill’s links to Epstein and his infidelity. On “Wild Card,” Melinda said that the latest allegations about Bill and Epstein brought her “unbelievable sadness.” (For his part, a spokesperson for Bill called the allegations “absolutely absurd and completely false.”)

“I think we’re having a reckoning as a society, right?” Melinda said to Martin. “No girl, no girl should ever be put in the situation that they were put in by Epstein and whatever was going on with all of the various people around him.” She added, “So for me, it’s personally hard whenever those details come up, right, because [it] brings back memories of some very, very painful times in my marriage. But I have moved on from that.”

Bill Gates and Melinda French Gates arrive at the Elysee Palace before receiving the award of Commander of the Legion of Honor by French President Francois Hollande on April 21, 2017 in Paris, France.

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Melinda continued that “whatever questions remain there of what I don’t—can’t even begin to know all of it—those questions are for those people and for even my ex-husband. They need to answer those things, not me.”

She concluded, “I am so happy to be away from all the muck that was there.”

Elsewhere in the conversation, Melinda poignantly said, “It’s beyond heartbreaking, right? I remember being those ages those girls were, I remember my daughters being those ages.”

Bill Gates and Melinda French Gates on ‘Good Morning America’ in February 2016.

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Melinda previously told Gayle King in an interview on CBS Mornings in March 2022 about her breakup from Bill, “As I said, it’s not one thing, it was many things, but I did not like that he’d had meetings with Jeffrey Epstein.”

Bill himself told The Wall Street Journal in January 2025 that his conversations with Epstein were “a huge mistake,” adding, “In retrospect, I was foolish to spend any time with him.”

“So yes, I think I was quite stupid,” he added.