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\n \u201cWe talked a ton about getting the right tone,\u201d says Samba Schutte of his early discussions with Vince Gilligan about making Koumba \u201ca child in a candy store instead of a pimp living his biggest life.\u201d
\n Photo: Apple TV\n <\/p>\n
Spoilers ahead for \u201cHDP,\u201d episode six of Pluribus.<\/p>\n
At least someone\u2019s having a good time. Pluribus<\/a>, Vince Gilligan\u2019s big science-fiction swing of the soul, is as much a philosophical Rorschach test as it is a character study of one miserable writer, and one of the clearest ways it interrogates its ideas is through the handful of humans who weren\u2019t transformed during the Joining and how each copes with the new world. Our protagonist, Carol (Rhea Seehorn), is of course hard at work trying to break global peace and revert everyone to normal. Laxmi (Menik Gooneratne), who\u2019s hostile to Carol, seems to cope by ignoring the stakes altogether because she still has the shell of her son.<\/p>\n And then there\u2019s Koumba Diabat\u00e9, an affable, elaborately dapper Mauritanian who greets the end of the world by living it up. We first meet him in the second episode, \u201cPirate Lady<\/a>,\u201d in which he has refashioned Air Force One into the pleasure craft where Carol tries, but fails, to win the remaining humans to her cause. He resurfaces in this week\u2019s episode, \u201cHDP,\u201d<\/a> now settled in Las Vegas, where he continues to indulge his fantasies complete with a little Casino Royale cosplay and sleeping with a variety of bodies absorbed by the Joining.<\/p>\n Koumba is a tricky character to realize, chiefly because postapocalyptic hedonism can easily slide into unsavoriness. His de facto harem has sparked a lot of conversation (certainly in my circles) about how consent works in Pluribus\u2019s world.\u00a0But in the hands of Samba Schutte, the warm, vibrant Dutch-Mauritanian actor last seen in Our Flag Means Death, Koumba reads more as a sweet, gentle being who just lucked out. That complication in reading the character is, of course, by design. \u201cWe talked a ton about getting the right tone,\u201d Schutte tells Vulture. \u201cWhat\u2019s really key is that there\u2019s a wonder to him. If we maintain that, the sweetness will come through.\u201d<\/p>\n What was your experience getting cast on this show?\u00a0 It was so great that Vince called to welcome me to the show but also that he wanted to make sure this character was from where I\u2019m from, Mauritania. The funny thing is, in the dummy scene, his name was Mr. Koumba, which in my culture is a woman\u2019s name \u2014 a man only gets that name if his mother died in childbirth. So I thought, Wow, what a genius character detail. I told Vince this and he was like, \u201cI had no idea, that\u2019s amazing. Let\u2019s keep it.\u201d Koumba was not originally written to be Mauritanian; Vince just found a name he liked. That dummy scene where I was a music producer turned out to be the scene where Mr. Koumba talks to Carol about taking Zosia with him.<\/p>\n Anyway, when Vince called to tell me I got the job, he explained the whole show and said, \u201cOkay, so a week from now, we\u2019re going to Vegas to film your Vegas scene first.\u201d And I was like, \u201cWait, what?\u201d<\/p>\n Playing Koumba as neither sleazy nor creepy is such a fine line given how he has essentially responded to the apocalypse by indulging his fantasies. Tell me more about those early conversations with Vince about who this character is. He talks about the Harrison Ford movie Air Force One while on the plane. You mentioned there was a lot of discussion around consent. Tell me more about that. Which drives Carol nuts, of course. She even accuses him of being a sexual predator in episode two, and he\u2019s genuinely hurt. That\u2019s why he checks in with Zosia about whether he\u2019s crossed any lines, and she reassures him, \u201cNo no, listen, we\u2019re all about love.\u201d That is a huge relief to him because he does not want to be a sleazebag. There\u2019s a real humanitarian streak in him. I love those conversations, and I love that Vince says the writers\u2019 room is still constantly debating whose side we\u2019re on. Are we with the hive or Carol?<\/p>\n When Carol meets him in Vegas, it\u2019s been only two weeks since the Joining, and he still hasn\u2019t tired of paradise. It made me wonder how long any of us could enjoy getting everything we want before boredom sets in. How long do you think you\u2019d last? How does Koumba perceive Carol? He\u2019s quite gentle and polite with her despite her harsh disposition. How much of it is pity? How\u2019s working with Rhea? And she wanted to rehearse with me! I was like, \u201cWhy are you like this?\u201d She said, \u201cBecause it\u2019s a collaboration. This is what we do. It\u2019s going to help me because the better you are, the better I am. The better I am, the better you are.\u201d She was very collaborative on set. When we were doing scenes together and it was on my coverage, she\u2019d ask me what I need from her to get a certain reaction. Then when it was on her, I would ask her what she would need from me. She\u2019s not just a generous, talented actor; she\u2019s a genuinely caring, beautiful human being.<\/p>\n What have you learned working on the show? Working on a Vince Gilligan production seems like a pretty specific experience. What was also interesting to me is how the show feels very current even though Vince did not have AI or COVID in mind when he wrote it. He was just hitting on themes that are so universal about isolation and human free will, human ingenuity, individuality or conformity, who we are as humans. If we were truly given a utopia, would everyone want to join it, or would people be like, \u201cIt\u2019s not my utopia\u201d? It\u2019s really brought up all these discussions I\u2019m still having with our group chat.<\/p>\n You\u2019re all in a group chat together? 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So, when my son was born on January 10 last year, I got the news that Our Flag Means Death had been canceled. That was the show I\u2019d been on, and I was bummed. Then, exactly a month later, I get an audition for an \u201cUntitled Vince Gilligan Project,\u201d and I\u2019m like, Oh my God, it\u2019s Vince Gilligan. I\u2019m a huge fan. But I had no idea what it actually was. Everything was super-secretive. They gave me this dummy scene where I\u2019m a music producer trying to steal a client, and I\u2019m thinking, What is this show? Then I hear nothing for five months and I felt, Oh man, I really thought I\u2019d nailed it. But then I get a callback and then the job. Vince even called to tell me I got it. He said, \u201cIt took so long to get back to you because it was hard to find someone who could play this character not sleazy or creepy but actually sweet. We owe that to your nerdy, awkward side.\u201d And I was like, Why thank you! <\/p>\n
We talked a ton about getting the right tone because it\u2019s hard to justify someone who\u2019s flying on Air Force One and surrounding himself with supermodels, basically having the time of his life. Discussions around consent came up a lot \u2014 how does that work with the Others? Vince explained to me that Koumba did not come from a life of opulence; he did not have a good life before this. We also established he didn\u2019t have a family. You\u2019ll notice only he and Carol are the original humans left who don\u2019t have anyone else, which means he has something in common with Carol. He\u2019s someone who\u2019s lived with discrimination and racism. So now the world has changed, and suddenly he\u2019s surrounded by people who want to give him everything he wants, who love him and want to make him feel special. Of course he\u2019s going to embrace that and live out his fantasies. In that sense, he\u2019s a child in a candy store instead of a pimp living his biggest life.<\/p>\n
Right! He\u2019s geeking out. Saying, \u201cThis is exactly how Harrison Ford was on the plane!\u201d or pretending he\u2019s James Bond in Casino Royale or having his portraits everywhere. There\u2019s this childlike wonder of living out fantasies he\u2019s been deprived of his whole life. And unlike Carol, he has embraced this new world. He\u2019s even taken on the role of humanity\u2019s representative, if you will, because he\u2019s a very diplomatic guy. What I love is that beneath the ridiculous outfits and obsession with opulence, he\u2019s actually very rational. If you listen to his counterarguments, he makes solid points that drive Carol nuts. He sees both sides: He doesn\u2019t fully agree with the Others, but he gets why they\u2019d eat humans because otherwise billions starve. He gets Carol, too, even if he doesn\u2019t love her methods. He\u2019s trying to find a middle ground and navigate this new reality. The show\u2019s partly about how people deal with change: Laxmi\u2019s in denial, Kusimayu wants to join the Others, Carol wants a scientific reversal, Manousos wants to kill them all. And Mr. Koumba wants to keep the world alive and figure out how to live in the one we\u2019ve got.<\/p>\n
We talked about it all the time. Like, \u201cSo if I kiss you, am I kissing everybody?\u201d There\u2019s a moment in episode three where Zosia\u2019s drinking whiskey with Carol, and Carol goes, \u201cIf you get drunk, does an 8-year-old in Pakistan get drunk?\u201d And Zosia\u2019s like, \u201cNo, it doesn\u2019t work that way.\u201d It\u2019s a great detail because even though they\u2019re collectively joined in terms of memories and thoughts, there is still some kind of individuality to them. Koumba sees them as individuals. He learns their names. He addresses Zosia as Zosia and John Cena as John Cena.<\/p>\n
I don\u2019t know. At that point, he\u2019s had everything, right? He\u2019s living his best life. But how long can you be fulfilled by that? You hit a limit at some point. I think I wouldn\u2019t last more than a month. How will you not become bored? Koumba is also a very curious character. He is eager to experience new things \u2014 even eating an avocado sandwich the way Carol makes it. I have no idea where this character is going, but I really do think there will be a point where he\u2019s like, Ah, boy. I\u2019m curious to see what happens then.<\/p>\n
I think part of him feels, I need to talk to her because, at the end of the day, we\u2019re allies. We\u2019re two of the last original humans left. He has clocked how completely alone she is. So in some ways he genuinely wants to support her, to be an ally to her and take care of her and not make her feel alone and really get to know and understand her. He also recognizes himself in her and wants to understand her perspective while also reassuring her: Look, they can\u2019t turn on us without our permission. Relax. Don\u2019t try to kill them. This is the world we\u2019ve got, and we\u2019re just trying to make it work.<\/p>\n
She\u2019s fantastic. As soon as I got the job, she called me \u2014 I\u2019ve never had a No. 1 on the call sheet reach out \u2014 just to welcome me to the show. She told me, \u201cHey, this is how Vince works. He shoots a lot, he directs a lot, but the reason he does it is not because he thinks you\u2019re a bad actor but because he\u2019s trying to find the tone and he knows you can handle it.\u201d So I felt very at ease.<\/p>\n
I\u2019ve learned what it\u2019s like to be on the most beautiful set ever, surrounded by wonderfully collaborative people who have no sense of hierarchy, who all want to bring their A game in service of the story. It\u2019s just such a dream come true to work on something like this. It\u2019s so rare. Plus, having a second season already commissioned gives you this incredible sense of calm that you have time to tell this story and develop these characters.<\/p>\n
Oh yeah. Except Rhea, she\u2019s not invited.<\/p>\n