Things got worse from there. Earth was released into the early weeks of the COVID-19 pandemic. Canceling tour dates was a bummer, of course, but the weather was nice in the UK, and life was mostly pleasant. Not until more lockdowns arose in the fall and winter did O’Brien find himself alone with his thoughts, spiraling into the deepest depression of his life. He spent the better part of a year working through his dark night of the soul, a period that led to personal transformation and fueled the creation of Blue Morpho.<\/p>\n
Out today, the album matches O’Brien with producer Paul Epworth and a crack team of collaborators, including Dave Okumu, Dan See, Yves Fernandez, and more. Estonian composer T\u00f5nu K\u00f5rvits lends gorgeous string arrangements to two tracks, Shabaka Hutchings plays a specially tuned flute on one, and O’Brien’s Radiohead bandmate Philip Selway twice mans the drum kit. Together, they bring O’Brien’s visions to life on tracks that range from grandiose groove-based excursions to contemplative instrumentals that lean into stillness.<\/p>\n
It was a pleasure to discuss the album with O’Brien via video chat from his home in Wales, where he spends most of his time these days, immersed in nature as often as possible. Later on, we also revisited some memorable Radiohead moments and poked around the nooks and crannies of O’Brien’s career outside the band. Below, stream the new album and dive into our edited conversation.<\/p>\n
Blue Morpho (2026)<\/p>\n
You made this album while coming out of a deep depression. This was during COVID lockdown \u2014 was it the sort of commonplace malaise we were all feeling, or was there something more going on?<\/p>\n
ED O\u2019BRIEN: It was more. It wasn’t because of the COVID that I went into the dark place. It was more to do with the fact that COVID actually, for all of us, stopped us in our tracks. The first lockdown was, well, I don’t know what it’s like for you guys, but the weather was sunny here. We were all adjusting. There was concern that it was a novelty. It was [during] the second one that I really went down. And it was mainly because I really wasn’t able, like all of us, to do anything. And it stopped me in my tracks.\u00a0<\/p>\n
For the first time in my life, I realized I wasn’t busy. And I\u2019d deliberately been keeping busy, or subconsciously keeping busy, to avoid processing certain things, particularly my childhood and that time. Really what it was, at the bottom, my body basically \u2014 you have these serendipitous moments when you’re reading the perfect thing or you hear the perfect song, and you suddenly see something. I was reading the perfect book for where I was and I realized that I hadn’t processed my [experiences]. And my body was basically packing in that sort of depression and said, \u201cYou have to heal.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n
And I had to find out what it was that I needed to heal because it’s not obvious at first. Because we bury this stuff deep down. It was a process of about nine, 10 months, and I suddenly saw what it was. And it became very clear, it was all childhood stuff and the stuff that follows that. Because human beings are pretty extraordinary creatures, and we build up these armors and these responses. They’re survival responses to shit that happens, right? And particularly when you’re a young person, that becomes part of who you are. But of course those things that you build up, those protections and what you think are innate traits \u2014 which aren’t, they’re just survival mechanisms \u2014 by the time I’m in my early 50s, they become unsustainable, and my body is just saying, \u201cYou need to address this, you need to clear this out. You need to see what this is all about and, and kind of find out, really get to the essence of who you are, Ed O’Brien.\u201d<\/p>\n
It sounds like connecting with nature is a big part of what helped you figure that out.<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: Huge, huge. I knew I had to sit in the fire, sit in the dark. But for me, that’s where \u2014 birdsong in the morning and walking in nature, I felt this sense of grace. There’s this thing that, when you sit in the dark, I felt, and I think a lot of people have found this, that you get to a certain point and you feel this other thing \u2014 grace, divine spirit, whatever you want to call it. And for me, that’s in abundance in nature. So I would see a bird, and I would connect with it. And it would put a smile on my face, and this deep sense of joy and this deep sense of connection with all that is.\u00a0<\/p>\n
So what was very helpful for me was to frame it as a dark night of the soul, very similar to Dante’s Inferno. Midway through life, I just lost my way. Human beings have been doing this for thousands of years, and sometimes we call it in our modern society \u201cmidlife crises,\u201d \u201cbreakdowns,\u201d \u201cdepression.\u201d But I very much felt that I was part of this very, very human journey. And my job was to sit in it. What are the lessons learned? To feel the discomfort, to feel the pain, all these things, but to know that I was gonna be OK and I was OK. And I came out the other side completely. I’m so glad I went through that experience because I’d have never had this connection with nature and spirit and grace in the way that’s so central to my life now.<\/p>\n
Was there a particular moment or experience that was especially meaningful during that process, or was it entirely gradual?<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: It was gradual. It was funny, I didn’t have a eureka moment. It’s sort of like waves. I was drawn to being in the water. The water in the river here in Wales, we’re very near the River Severn. It’s the longest river in the UK, and the source of this river is 10 miles upstream. It comes from the mountain. It’s a very cold river. [This process] felt like getting in the water with cold water, which is so hard in itself. But I found it very healing, and it would kind of wash through me. I understood things like baptism, why they’re taken in water. I could see, oh, if you had a clean sacred river, there is a cleansing of the spirit. There’s a cleansing that happens, a cleansing of the soul, if you like.\u00a0<\/p>\n
So it was a really beautiful thing, and it happened gradually. And there were times when I thought, \u201cAm I ever\u2026?\u201d Nine months feels a long time when you’re in a dark place. And I’m sure people listening to this, maybe you know that as well, this is not anything new. And so I did wonder at times where I was ever going to get out of it. But one day I realized I just didn’t feel this way. I didn’t feel this burden. I wanted to get up in the morning. And it completely changed me. In the morning now, I seek birdsong. I mean, I don’t have to seek it. It’s right there. And it puts a smile on my face. And I’ve got that wonderful Merlin bird app, and I’m pretty good on my birdsong with native birds around here. You know, the miracle of a wren. We had this tiny bird, and this is when we’re in London, singing all day long on this tree, just the most extraordinary melody all day, and she just puts it out there. It’s so beautiful.<\/p>\n
Another thing that accompanied this whole thing was increasing gratitude. Just so much gratitude. So yeah, even though it was a tough place to get to, I’m so glad I went through it. In fact, it’s been one of the greatest kind of journeys, if not the greatest journey of my life so far \u2014 or one of them, you know, with fatherhood and stuff like that.<\/p>\n
Your bio mentions that you and Paul Epworth, who produced the new album, connected on a deeper level. Was it related to some of these epiphanies you were having, or what was that about?<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: With Paul, you know when you meet people who you immediately feel like you know them? We had a phone call before we’d ever met. We were dads with kids at the same school. His kids are a bit younger \u2014 quite a lot younger, about 10, 12 years younger. But we had a mutual friend, and someone put us in touch. And I obviously knew about Paul because he’s one of the most famous and renowned producers in the world. And we just had this conversation. He phoned me up, and we were on the phone for an hour and a half. It goes like that. We connected, and it was so beautiful. He\u2019s not only an incredible producer, he writes as well, which I’ve never had before. I’ve never worked with a producer who writes. Because he’s kind of from the new vanguard. I worked with Flood, who was amazing, who’s obviously a legend. Obviously Nigel Godrich. But they were from a different era. Paul is in that producer-songwriter thing.\u00a0<\/p>\n
So it was really great for me, made the songs more robust, that we could bounce off ideas. And also Riley MacIntyre, who I must mention as well. He sort of co-produced and engineered the record. He started off as Paul’s assistant and sort of struck out on his own with Ezra Collective and producing all sorts of stuff, amazing stuff. So with Paul and Riley, I had these really beautiful human beings who are deeply talented. It doesn’t get better than that \u2014 talented, lovely human beings.<\/p>\n
It sounds like you put together a whole band for these sessions, a unit that you hope to keep together. Were these fresh connections or people that you’ve been hoping to work with for a long time?<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: Well, these are basically Dave Okumu. David Okumu put this band together. Lots of people call him Dave, but I call him David. David played on my first record and was like a brother. We were thinking, \u201cOK, we need to take these songs out of my studio \u2014 Paul, Riley, and I, the three of us \u2014 and into a band context, some of them.\u00a0<\/p>\n
David did a show at the Roundhouse in Camden in London here with his band, 7 Generations. And it was extraordinary. And I contacted him the next day. We put a band together, and basically, it’s his 7 Gens band. So they already had this chemistry. And David did some extra arranging. We had three what I consider sort of utopian days of recording. These guys turned up, they knew what they were doing. I mean, \u201cObrigado,\u201d we did the end section, which was a big moment. We did two takes, and I think it was the very first take. We had the first take done, and then we just did another one, but it was amazing.\u00a0<\/p>\n
We recorded at Paul’s studio called the Church, which is like a church, a very sacred space. It was an old church. And, yeah, it was beautiful. Really, really, really powerful. Very powerful and emotional time.<\/p>\n
The ending of \u201cIncantations,\u201d was that all orchestrated ahead of time, or was that a jam?<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: I had done a demo arrangement for that with acoustics and voices. That was one of the ones I gave to David. And he basically got together with Dan See, amazing drummer. And they took my demo, and they just drummed on top and added a bass. And the bass is following my guitar. And then the band, we learned that arrangement. That arrangement was one of those arrangements that I didn’t know how to end. But what was beautiful about it was, there was a kind of a form where we’re trying to [pursue]. You’re trying to get to that point where the bass is sort of moving around and then it finds its place, and then it settles in that groove and then it just stays in there. It’s sort of mantra-esque. And that arrangement became the default setting the band played in. The essence of it is to try and to get to that point, and to sound like it was a jam.<\/p>\n
Yeah, it feels spontaneous and lively even though it sounds like there was a lot of planning that went into it. There’s so much rhythmic action happening with \u201cTeachers\u201d as well, with the drums and the bass. And that song goes into \u201cSolfeggio,\u201d which is practically rhythmless, and it’s almost like you’re going from the woods to the ocean, kind of a different landscape. Was there a specific effort to mirror the diverse landscapes of nature with a diverse set of songs?<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: Oh, that’s a good question. No, not really. There’s never a conscious thing. I’ve found over the years that if you try and impose your will upon a piece of music, it’s usually quite unsatisfactory. What I’m learning is to let go. And the joy of the whole process is the unexpected and the uncertainty. You literally feel what feels right and what doesn’t feel right. It’s not a mental thing, it’s a completely intuitive thing. And the song guides you. I’m guided by the song. And that, for me, has been \u2014 we really stepped into that on this record.\u00a0<\/p>\n
I’ve been guilty at times of sort of, not forcing, but maybe thinking, \u201cOh, this should be like…\u201d and I just completely surrendered. I was like, I don’t know what these songs are. I’ve got no idea where they’re going. I have a feeling, I’ve got an intention. And that for me is the bit now where I’m just so excited about making music in a way that I’ve never been before. It’s different when you’re in a band because you’re contributing to a whole, but this thing is, it’s essentially my vision or my feeling. And I’m really enjoying that. I love the uncertainty. I relish the uncertainty now. I’ve never enjoyed that as much.<\/p>\n
I want to talk about the orchestral element. In the intro to \u201cBlue Morpho,\u201d it really announces itself. You met the composer, T\u00f5nu K\u00f5rvits, in Estonia. What were you doing there?<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: They’ve got a fantastic music festival in Estonia in Tallinn, May of every year, and in 2022 or 2023, I was invited to go and do some kind of talk, and then a Q&A and all sorts of stuff. And I really enjoyed it. I loved Tallinn. And at the end of the festival, the promoter, Helen [Sildna], had an intimate dinner with me and some other people. And she sat me next to T\u00f5nu K\u00f5rvits, and she said, \u201cThis is my favorite Estonian composer.\u201d And T\u00f5nu is, I think he’s a couple of years younger than me, so he’s like mid-50s. So we have a lot of the same reference points. He’s not just classical music. We grew up on the same things. He loved New Romantics. I think two years ago, he was eulogizing about the Human League gig that we went to. And we loved Echo & The Bunnymen and all those. And the next day I listened to some of his music on Spotify, and it’s really beautiful. We got on really well. And he said at the end, \u201cListen, if you ever wanted any orchestral arrangements,\u201d blah de blah de blah. I was like, amazing.<\/p>\n
Fast forward four months. \u201cBlue Morpho\u201d and \u201cSweet Spot,\u201d which are the tracks which have the orchestral arrangements, we got to a point where I was like, I really think these songs could do with an orchestral arrangement or something with strings.\u00a0And rather than go to the usual great string arrangers in London or whatever, the UK, I was like, \u201cWell, I met T\u00f5nu.\u201d And it felt like, again, one of those serendipitous moments, those moments when somebody comes into your life. So I contacted him, and he was up for it.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Usually, the only time I’ve ever seen string arrangements is in Radiohead. And what usually happens is that Jonny would do a string arrangement. He would do these very beautiful mockups. And they were pretty, they were really good. He\u2019d play them to us. And then, of course, they get recorded with an orchestra, and it’s up another level or 10. But T\u00f5nu was like, \u201cYeah, the software that I’m using isn’t very good. It’s not going to give you \u2014 I’d much rather just do it.\u201d And they recorded in Tallinn, and it was really amazing. Again, surrender, let go. Like, \u201cOK, I don’t know how this is gonna be.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n
And it came back, and it was utterly, utterly beautiful and mesmeric. And the way that it worked with the birds! When I sent him the track at the end, I think he was quite surprised. He said, \u201cOh my God, the strings are so loud.\u201d I said, \u201cYeah, they’re amazing. They’re so good. They need to be loud.\u201d So yeah, it’s just one of those, again, wonderful serendipitous moments. It’s synchronicity when these people come into your life. And we’re definitely gonna do some more music together.<\/p>\n
You also have Shabaka Hutchings playing flute on \u201cThin Places.\u201d You specifically had him play an instrument tuned to 432 Hz instead of the standard 440 Hz. I understand the 432 Hz thing has some kind of scientific, biological significance. I saw you were in a Rolling Stone article about it. Can you explain it to me?<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: I’ve been on a deep dive with 432 for a while now. Probably about 2014 I started on it. It starts, like a lot of good things, at Glastonbury Festival. I had a conversation there in midsummer 2014 with a fellow musician. And she said, \u201cHave you heard about the Solfeggio scale?\u201d \u201cNo, tell me more.\u201d And she said, \u201cIt’s the sort of the ancient scale that a lot of chants and a lot of early Middle Ages music was written in. It’s sacred, you know, it wasn’t just that music was pleasant to the ear. It had a healing, uplifting, very powerful aspect to it that worked on a spiritual and cellular level.\u00a0<\/p>\n
So, of course, I get back from Glastonbury. I start on this deep dive. And then suddenly it came to 432, and it really resonated. And I’ve got some old books. It seems that most music up until the end of the 19th century was actually played and written at 432 Hz. So what that means is, tuning has been standardized since the beginning of the Second World War. So the note A equals 440 Hz. So when you get a tuner, a lot of them you can recalibrate, but they come in standard. A equals 440 Hz globally. And it wasn’t like that before. Concert pitch, I think, is 442. But 432 is slightly flatter. And the whole thing around it is that it’s more whole.<\/p>\n
There’s this thing called cymatics, which is a science, I guess. And it’s blowing sound waves at sand and seeing the shapes. So at 440, you blow a sound wave at sand, and you see the shape that it makes, and it’s frazzled. At 432, you get these perfectly defined geometric patterns. And so the whole thing leading on from that, that’s exactly what’s going on with ourselves and the body. So the whole idea is that 432 is a sacred frequency. I feel it\u2019s more whole.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And I’ve been on it. The first album I made, I kind of partially committed. It’s easy to do that, to recalibrate guitars. But pianos, obviously, they’re fixed. You can’t. So what I did on this record, I was just like, \u201cOK, I’ve got to commit to this.\u201d So I retuned the piano, and I bought an electric piano from a company in America called Vintage Vibe, who make sort of a modern Fender Rhodes. And I asked them to tune it to 432, and it was the first they’d ever done. But I was like, \u201cWe really need to go [all-in] on this.\u201d And I think it has an effect on the music. And it’s interesting, the article came out, and James Blake and Ziggy Marley were saying the same things. Ziggy Marley was like, \u201cI’m never going back.\u201d I’m never going back either. When we go out and play live, it’ll be at 432, because I think it’s profound.<\/p>\n
7 Worlds Collide (2001, 2008-2009)<\/p>\n
This was a supergroup headed up by Neil Finn in Auckland. How did you get involved?<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: Wow. Back in the end of the year 2000. Me and my wife, Suzi, are on holiday in New Zealand and go and see Neil and Sharon Finn \u2014 Neil Finn of Split Enz, Crowded House. And Neil said, \u201cI’m putting together this project. I’ve done this album.\u201d And he had amazing musicians on it. Wendy and Lisa played on it, I think. Sebastian Steinberg, who ended up in 7 Worlds. He said, \u201cI’d love you to be a part of it.\u201d\u00a0 And I said, \u201cYeah, yeah, great.\u201d Within a month, he called back. He said, \u201cI’ve got Sebastian, I’ve got Lisa Germano, I’ve got Johnny Marr.\u201d I’ve not met Johnny at this stage, and Johnny was my \u2014 he’s kind of like my guitar hero. That’s one of the reasons I played. He was my guitar hero.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And so, it was just extraordinary. Neil put it together. And Eddie Vedder came along. And we needed a drummer, so I put forward Philip, asked Philip, and Philip came. So we flew out from the UK, and it was an incredible experience \u2014 so powerful, not just musically. It was intense. But playing with these people, for me, it was massive, huge.<\/p>\n
In the second iteration, in 2008, you actually wrote a song with Johnny Marr and the Finns. I was listening to it, and it almost sounds like a dry run for the Blue Morpho material. You can really hear your songwriting voice in there even though I don’t believe you’re the one singing on the track.<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: No, I’m not singing. It’s interesting that maybe I’m a one trick pony.<\/p>\n
Oh, that’s not what I meant.<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: No, thank you. It’s interesting, when I wrote that track, I was similarly in a dark place. So maybe there’s something about the melody. What I think is amazing with music is that music is essentially mathematics and intervals, right? It’s a mathematical pattern. The fact that a mathematical pattern can hold and represent the emotion of the person that brought that pattern into the world. For me, songwriting is not \u2014 and I will say this, I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m not seeking it. It’s just, I’m in this almost meditative state, and it just comes through. But I always think it’s extraordinary. And this is, again, one of the things I\u2019m just utterly, utterly in love with the whole process, is that this mathematical pattern can hold an emotion that I might be experiencing at that time. And I think that’s the case with \u201cLearn To Crawl.\u201d It was coming out of a pretty dark place.<\/p>\n
Radiohead\u2019s Saturday Night Live Debut (2000)<\/p>\n
This one is personally important to me because that whole year I was doing my Radiohead deep dive, becoming obsessed. I always remember I came home from a high school dance and watched that performance. It’s a very special, formative memory for me. What do you remember about being there?<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: We literally flew in for it. And I remember when we landed at JFK, our manager, Brian, he also had his one-year-old daughter, Molly, with him as well. And he was in the front of the van, and he turned around and said, \u201cKid A has gone to number one in America. We’ve got our first number one in America, Billboard.\u201d And I remembered I had an interview with the Billboard journo about it, and he said something great. He said, \u201cDo you know what? I think it’s the weirdest number one album in America ever.\u201d I was like, \u201cYes.\u201d<\/p>\n
What do I remember about the night? Well, we had the horn section that played on the record, and they were great. Stan [Harrison] was the big sax guy, and Andy [Bush] was sort of the leader, the trumpet player. And it was cool. It’s funny the things that you do remember. I think we did two tracks. \u201cThe National Anthem,\u201d right?<\/p>\n
Yeah, you did that and \u201cIdioteque.\u201d<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: Oh right, OK, \u201cIdioteque,” cool. I remember we were talking about another song. They were asking about \u201cPyramid Song.\u201d Because I think we were playing it as well. We had this conversation about where’s the one in the bar. And \u2014 I know what it was, it’s about counting. And they said, \u201cHow do you count that?\u201d\u00a0I said, \u201cI don’t count. I just feel it,\u201d you know? And it was really interesting, that conversation with incredible musicians, who are jazz musicians, who have to rely on the count, and me, who \u2014 again, I’m a sort of a mongrel musician. So I remember that, and I remember the green room. I remember afterwards there was a party, and I remember Joaquin Phoenix was there. I remember I sat opposite, you know Dave Eggers?<\/p>\n
Yeah, the writer.\u00a0<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: The writer, he was there. It was all just a bit of a whirlwind. I smoked a lot of weed in those days, so I was always… That Kid A period, there was a lot of weed smoking for me, so my memory is slightly hazy from a lot of that.<\/p>\n
When you said that you had a high school dance and you came back and watched, it’s so lovely to hear those things contextualized. Because as a musician, you don’t often hear these personal stories. Because you can relate to it. I’ve been to high school dances. I know that thing when you’re in that sweet spot of obsession with a band and you come back and you see it. And actually, that \u201cNational Anthem\u201d performance. Well, both of them are fucking \u2014 I mean, I don’t ever watch anything of ours, but I think something came up on social media from that performance, and \u201cNational Anthem\u201d was… I mean\u2026<\/p>\n
It\u2019s crazy.\u00a0<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: It was fucking amazing.<\/p>\n
[Laughs] Yeah! It was.<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: It was really fucking amazing. We were right in the sweet spot. We’ve done this album that we hadn’t road-tested, the first album we’d written in the studio, and now we were kind of getting our shit together to try and play it live. And that was a process in itself. But that version, the way we did it live, it didn’t have the same energy on the record because it’s a different beast. But I think the live version is better.<\/p>\n
Anytime I see Radiohead, that’s always top of the list of what I want to see. Obviously you don’t always have the horn players with you.<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: That\u2019s a great track. That last run of dates we played in the fall last year, that was really rocking. Because we found a real sweet spot with the tempo. Not too fast, not too slow. And then, the second half, after the dropdown, when the horns came in, Thom brought in this beautiful \u2014 like, he was playing these kind of 7th chords. And it’s like, \u201cWow.\u201d So we were really weaving. Yeah, it’s such a fun song to play live.<\/p>\n
Appearing In The Web Video Series Starby (2022) And South Park (2001)<\/p>\n
In this Starby video, you inhale helium and then sing a song about squeaky sneakers. Did you actually inhale helium to do this?<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: No, I think they just sped my voice up. Yeah, that’s right. It’s like all these things. It’s like when we did the South Park episode. Matt [Stone] got us into a studio, and you’ve got no context to just say these words. \u201cCan you say it slower, a bit quicker? OK, great, bang.\u201d So it’s that. They know what they want, and you just try and fulfill that.<\/p>\n
Do you remember the people who were involved with this Starby thing or how you got asked to do it?<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: I can’t remember at all. I just remember the Jeff Tweedy episode, and I remember thinking it was really cool. I really liked the zaniness of it. I thought it was a really beautiful, funny little thing, and they just asked. I was like, “Yeah, absolutely, 100%.”<\/p>\n
Guesting On Asian Dub Foundation\u2019s \u201c1000 Mirrors\u201d With Sin\u00e9ad O’Connor (2003)<\/p>\n
You played on a few songs on Asian Dub Foundation\u2019s album Enemy Of The Enemy, including one with Sin\u00e9ad O’Connor. Did you work directly with Sinead on that at all?<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: No. I was a huge fan of Asian Dub Foundation. I got obsessed with them. And then we brought them out on tour with us, actually. They opened up in Europe for us on Hail To The Thief. It was amazing. And they were making this album with Adrian Sherwood, who’s a dub pioneer, and they asked whether I’d play some kind of sustaining guitar on it.\u00a0<\/p>\n
I did \u201cEnemy Of The Enemy.\u201d It was a very short session. It was in the studio in Wood Green, and it was super cool. They were great, and obviously Adrian Sherwood is a legend. And no, I never got to meet Sin\u00e9ad. I just did that little riff on the track. I think I played it once or something, and then Sin\u00e9ad obviously does her stuff on top, which is extraordinary.<\/p>\n
What was it about the Asian Dub Foundation? Why were you such a big fan?<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: I mean, they had incredible energy. What I loved about it was they were very political. They were like the Clash. And what they were talking about, and their communities, and being first-generation Asian Brits. And musically, what I loved about them was that they had that kind of dub element, that big fat bass and the drum and bass patterns, drum machine. Dr. Das was the bass player. And he told me that his bass riffs, which are very cyclical and repetitive, were basically ragas. You know, they were ragas from Indian music. So he was adapting them, and I just thought it was amazing.\u00a0<\/p>\n
They had an incredible rapper at one stage. The first rapper was amazing, Deeder [Zaman]. And Steve [Chandra Savale] was a guitarist, and I loved his style of guitar. He used wah and delay and Strat, and just really, really, really inventive. And I love that kind of raga, and I love the whole dub element. They really fused that amazingly. I just thought they were unlike anything else. And their gigs were extraordinary. They were so powerful, so exciting. I saw them loads of times. One gig was at this place called the Barbican, which is where we’re playing. It’s a beautiful theater. And it’s all seated. By the end of the show, the whole of this auditorium were up, and the stage had been invaded. It was just a magical evening. They were an amazing, amazing group of musicians \u2014 collective, really. They were collective, if you like.<\/p>\n
Radiohead At The MTV Beach House (1993)<\/p>\n
Every year or so, footage of Radiohead at the MTV Beach House goes viral online, when Thom jumped into the pool. What was your experience like at the MTV Beach House? Did you have a good time there?\u00a0<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: It was at the end of our first American tour. \u201cCreep\u201d was riding high, and we were put into this scenario that was deeply uncomfortable. I mean, the beach house vibe is really \u2014 you know, we’re from Oxford. We’re from the furthest place from the sea. And then, put us somewhere in California with that whole thing. We were just fish out of water. But it was like we had to do this stuff. The record company, I’m sure it was all part of the payola that was going on there.\u00a0<\/p>\n
There was a DJ called Kennedy. And I thought she was fine. But I think Thom struggled a bit with her. You know, Thom’s threshold of stuff in those days was \u2014 it was all getting a bit too much. By the end of the tour, we’ve done a lot of schmoozing. We’ve done a lot of stuff, and we were just exhausted. And then to place us in the MTV Beach House, that response was brilliant. It was like, \u201cHere we go again.\u201d And he was like, \u201cI’m not having this.\u201d I think it was brilliant.<\/p>\n
Remixing Paul McCartney\u2019s \u201cSlidin\u2019\u201d (2020)<\/p>\n
I was fascinated by this. It was already kind of a rocking song, but you really kind of electrified it, made it more intense \u2014 kind of \u201cHelter Skelter\u201d-ed it up.<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: That was the vibe. That was exactly it. It was just like \u201cHelter Skelter.\u201d That version, it was like, just make it more raw. Make more garage and more throwaway. And that was the vibe. Because the thing is, as you get older, we all kind of can smooth out a little bit, and it’s like, maybe \u201cHelter Skelter\u201d it up, Neil Young it up, we just make it a bit more gnarly. And he’s great. It was really good fun. I did it with Paul Epworth and Riley. And Paul McCartney was really sweet. He rang me up one Saturday evening and said thank you and how much he liked it, and we ended up having a great conversation. So yeah, it was fun to do.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Attending Radiohead\u2019s Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Induction (2019)<\/p>\n
You and Phil attended Radiohead\u2019s Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame induction. What went into the decision for you to be there? Was there a group chat or anything, like, \u201cOK, I’ll be there.” “I think I’m gonna sit this one out.\u201d<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: No, it was sort of\u2026 So it’s 2019, right? It was at a particularly low ebb for the band. We got off the road in 2018, and we weren’t really communicating at all with one another. And we obviously were being invited into the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame. And I think Thom and Jonny were recording, doing Smile stuff. Colin was away. And I didn’t really want to go. I don’t like award ceremonies. I don’t like that side of it. But I felt, and I think Philip felt the same, that America has been such an extraordinary place for us in terms of our music. It was one of the first places that accepted us. And also, we have an amazing \u2014 I’m so indebted. I think American audiences are so open. You’ve got this history. Jazz comes from America. Hip-hop. And you’ve got the Grateful Dead. So it really felt wrong not to go over and say thank you. And that’s what it was really for us.<\/p>\n
We don’t have Hall of Fames over here. We don’t understand. But I remember when we were inducted, I’ve never had more emails from American friends and family saying well done. So I realized that it was culturally significant, and to not go felt ungrateful. And I’m so grateful for the fact that we can tour America and how warm \u2014 you know, the fact that we can be experimental in our sets, which we’ve been, and we can do things differently, and people like it. And American music as well. I mean, that was where so much of our \u2014 I mean, I love Brazilian music, but American music is where it starts for us. All I wanted to do as a kid in the ’80s with this band was to get into a tour bus and tour America.\u00a0<\/p>\n
So yeah, it felt very uncomfortable. I look back on it, and we were just walking into something that we have no idea. On the day before, you do the run-through. They said, \u201cDo you wanna have a teleprompter?\u201d You know, to have your speech written out? And I was like, \u201cOh, no, we don’t do that stuff.\u201d We were the only people not to have, and we looked \u2014 I mean, I just felt like we were like classic Brits who were completely sort of dumbstruck by the whole thing. Everybody’s so polished. And Americans are so eloquent. You put an American in front of a TV camera and they can talk, and they’re so eloquent. And we were classic Brits. And I felt like I was in an ill-fitting suit. It was just an embarrassment. But you know, you do these things, and we were thankful. And then obviously, Jesus, the fellow nominees. The Cure were there and Stevie Nicks and Janet Jackson and Roxy Music. Those people are extraordinary.<\/p>\n
You and Phil seem to have a nice little partnership. You mentioned you brought him along for the 7 Worlds Collide, and he plays on a couple of songs on Blue Morpho as well. How did you decide that those particular ones were gonna be the Philip Selway tracks? Was that a conscious choice, or was it like those happened to be the ones that you were working on when he was around?\u00a0<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: No, it’s a conscious choice. When they came out, I said to Riley and Paul, I said, \u201cThese need Phil.\u201d He’s an extraordinary drummer. He’s got this feel, and this kind of weight and soul that’s so rare. I mean, it’s no coincidence, right? Get this. I think it was a few years back for one of Ringo’s birthdays that they were celebrating on SiriusXM. And Ringo was involved, and they said, \u201cWe want you to be interviewed by a current drummer. Who do you want? He said, \u201cI want Philip Selway.\u201d So Ringo flew out Phillip to New York and Philip interviewed Ringo and actually played with him that night onstage.\u00a0<\/p>\n
He’s just so unique. With the sound of Radiohead, I think there are two really distinctive things. I think it’s obviously Thom’s voice, but also Philip’s drums. Now, that doesn’t mean he drums on every single track, but there’s something about his feel that that just glues us all together. He’s interesting because he follows Thom a lot. That was his thing. A lot of drummers, people follow the drummer. Well, he follows Thom and his rhythm playing, and then the rest follow that. So that’s kind of where the sound comes from, really, or a big element of the sound.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s interesting. I definitely hear what you’re talking about with his drumming being an essential component. I think about songs like \u201cAirbag,\u201d or you mentioned \u201cPyramid Song.\u201d There’s a certain anti-gravity that’s happening.<\/p>\n
O\u2019BRIEN: When we play these songs live, particularly \u201cPyramid Song,\u201d the drumming on that track is extraordinary. And I don’t play at the beginning of that song, so I have the benefit and the luxury of being able to look around and see everyone play. And Philip had his back to me [at last year\u2019s shows], because of the way that we’re playing in the round. But I could see his limbs from the back of his arms, I didn’t have to even see his face, but I could feel the amount of motion that he puts into it. But the feel \u2014 he’s all heart and all soul. And that’s such a gift. It’s such a gift to be able to play with someone like that.<\/p>\n
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Ed O’Brien – Blue Morpho [LP]<\/p>\n