water-based extinguisher<\/a>. You tend to want to use that because you can\u2019t really use a standard, like, CO2 or gaseous halon-type device, because of the concerns with our small cabin, and also affecting our ECLS system and things like that.\u00a0<\/p>\nSo, we\u00a0basically went\u00a0with a water-based system. We were going to use the ISS. We did start with that, but then we\u00a0actually modified\u00a0it for Orion because we needed a smaller version. We needed something that we can take up less mass and volume to do exploration missions out to the\u00a0Moon and back.\u00a0<\/p>\n
You really have to pay attention to mass and volume, and so every piece of hardware that we look at, even if we were borrowing things from ISS, we went ahead and and had to really look at it from a mass and volume perspective of what do we need for Orion specifically.\u00a0<\/p>\n
So,\u00a0we did use a water-based fire extinguisher like they did, but we sized it down specifically for our contingencies for Orion.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Host:\u00a0And\u00a0in your work, every ounce counts!\u00a0<\/p>\n
Boehm:\u00a0Definitely. I\u2019ve worked shuttle, I\u2019ve worked space station. Yes.<\/p>\n
Mass, obviously, for launch is a big deal, but I will tell you going into Orion and the lunar missions, and then researching a lot also about what the Apollo guys went through:\u00a0<\/p>\n
I had the\u00a0very lucky\u00a0chance to talk with a gentleman named Jerry Goodman, who was the crew systems lead for Apollo.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And back in the mid-2010s, he\u00a0actually gave\u00a0me a cartoon that he drew up back in 1965 that\u00a0essentially showed\u00a0the last straw on the camel\u2019s back as they were going\u00a0to march\u00a0for stowage\u00a0and\u00a0the\u00a0thing breaking the camel\u2019s back.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And he said Apollo went through the exact same thing to where they looked at every single ounce that went on the vehicle to try to minimize what was flying to the\u00a0Moon because of the constraints with mass and volume on the Apollo program.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And\u00a0yeah, Orion went into the same thing where we did lots of mass scrubs to pull mass out of the vehicle and all the crew systems that we\u00a0have to\u00a0support. So\u00a0that\u2019s\u00a0a constant challenge that we have going to the\u00a0Moon for, especially for the translunar injection burn. Things like that that we got to do.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Host:\u00a0Learning from Apollo must be a major advantage.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Boehm:\u00a0So,\u00a0definitely we\u00a0are taking advantage of the fact that we have folks like\u00a0myself\u00a0that got the benefit of working the three different programs. But we also have a lot of folks that have come in that have started working ISS.\u00a0And then now\u00a0they\u2019re\u00a0coming over to work on Orion.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And so,\u00a0we\u2019re\u00a0taking advantage of the fact that we have that experience from folks from ISS and and being able to share that with Orion.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And\u00a0I think it\u00a0is a challenge from our perspective,\u00a0too,\u00a0on the Orion side.\u00a0It\u2019s\u00a0a bit different with Orion for doing these exploration missions.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Some of the things that I know I used to do when I was an ISS flight controller and and used to\u00a0[do]\u00a0ISS operations, I know I\u00a0can\u2019t\u00a0do those on Orion.\u00a0It\u2019s\u00a0just not practical anymore.\u00a0<\/p>\n
I\u00a0kind of term\u00a0it as a camping trip.\u00a0That\u2019s\u00a0the way you got to think of it.\u00a0<\/p>\n
We sometimes got spoiled with shuttle and station with the large volumes and the large capability we have with those vehicles.\u00a0Orion just is\u00a0not quite that\u00a0way right now.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And so,\u00a0we need to be,\u00a0you know,\u00a0conscious of every piece of hardware that we try to take with us.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Host:\u00a0Back to the\u00a0engineering technology\u00a0how does the Orion\u00a0spacesuit\u00a0play into all this?\u00a0<\/p>\n
Boehm:\u00a0Yeah, we\u00a0actually don\u2019t\u00a0have a whole lot that we\u00a0actually need\u00a0to do with that suit, the space station suit, the EVA suits that\u00a0you\u2019re\u00a0used to seeing going out EVA. They have a hard upper torso, and you tend to be more restricted.\u00a0<\/p>\n
What we see is the spine growth during missions. And so,\u00a0typically from your head to your feet, you get a bit taller.\u00a0And so, with the\u00a0EMU\u00a0[extravehicular mobility unit]\u00a0that we have on space station, we used to put about an inch into that waist of that suit to account for that growth for crews, so that their shoulders wouldn\u2019t get pushed into that hard upper torso by the legs, your feet\u00a0being\u00a0where they\u2019re at, and then your shoulders having to go up.\u00a0<\/p>\n
So,\u00a0with Orion we have a soft suit. The whole suit is soft, and so you have a little more flexibility with that\u00a0particular suit. We do size it for the crew members specifically.\u00a0We do leave a little bit of extra in there just to make sure they got comfort and ability.\u00a0<\/p>\n
But the feedback we had from the Artemis II crew on orbit\u00a0\u2013 granted,\u00a0it\u00a0was only a 10-day mission\u00a0\u2013\u00a0but we\u00a0actually didn\u2019t\u00a0have any issues with that\u00a0particular topic, with spinal growth and that with our\u00a0particular suit.\u00a0So,\u00a0we think it worked out\u00a0pretty well\u00a0with the soft suits that we have.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Host:\u00a0That\u2019s\u00a0great. And those suits\u00a0aren\u2019t\u00a0purposefully\u00a0designed for\u00a0eight-hour\u00a0spacewalks anyway.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Boehm:\u00a0Not really, but we\u00a0actually do\u00a0size the suits and everything.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Our main contingency for the suits is if you have a cabin depress on the way to the\u00a0Moon.\u00a0<\/p>\n
We have tried to design the suits and the system of the vehicle to support the crew for up to six days in the suit, which is not something you want to do. But to be able to get the crew home, crew survival capability\u00a0\u2013\u00a0that\u2019s\u00a0what we have on Orion.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Host:\u00a0Wow. On a personal level and career level, what was your giant leap?\u00a0<\/p>\n
Boehm:\u00a0Oh,\u00a0I think it\u00a0was what we just did with Artemis II.\u00a0<\/p>\n
You know\u00a0I\u2019ve\u00a0been at JSC for 37 years and been through a couple programs that said we were going to get back to the\u00a0Moon\u00a0and this is absolutely the closest\u00a0I\u2019ve\u00a0ever been in my entire career.\u00a0So,\u00a0I think this\u00a0is the big leap.\u00a0<\/p>\n
We\u2019ve\u00a0got the capability now to get crew back to the\u00a0Moon.\u00a0We\u2019ve\u00a0got to be able to obviously build more of the vehicles,\u00a0which\u00a0we\u2019re\u00a0doing.\u00a0<\/p>\n
We\u2019ve\u00a0got Artemis III being built right now, going to fly next year.\u00a0<\/p>\n
We\u2019ve\u00a0got Artemis IV going.\u00a0<\/p>\n
We\u2019ve\u00a0got Artemis V going.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And\u00a0so,\u00a0you know\u00a0we\u2019ve\u00a0got that cadence\u00a0that\u2019s\u00a0starting to happen. Never had that before in my career. So,\u00a0to me,\u00a0that\u2019s\u00a0the huge leap that\u00a0we\u2019re\u00a0doing.\u00a0<\/p>\n
You know, I thoroughly enjoyed doing all the development and build of space station through the years. That was a huge thing. But\u00a0I think this\u00a0is the big leap that we can do for exploration, which is to me what I was really\u00a0hoping to have when I came to NASA.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Host:\u00a0That\u2019s\u00a0excellent. And how did it feel having the public\u00a0following\u00a0every step of\u00a0Artemis II?\u00a0Everybody got\u00a0to see the inside of Orion.<\/p>\n
Boehm: Yeah, I worked the\u00a0mission,\u00a0and I was in the control center the whole mission, and I really\u00a0didn\u2019t\u00a0get to watch much of the external video and everything. And so,\u00a0I had my family\u00a0kind of telling\u00a0me what was going on when I when I go home,\u00a0go to sleep.\u00a0<\/p>\n
But\u00a0yeah, I was I was amazed to see that excitement again that everybody had across the world\u00a0because you see all the old newsreels and things like that with Apollo and how people got excited back then.\u00a0<\/p>\n
To me, that was what this is all about: was to have that goal of a country going back to the\u00a0Moon, and then also the world, you know, joining us to do this.\u00a0That\u00a0was just awesome seeing that.\u00a0<\/p>\n
And I wish I could\u00a0have got\u00a0to see more of it during the mission, but I did watch some of the stuff afterwards, and it was\u00a0really cool\u00a0seeing it.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Host:\u00a0I\u2019m\u00a0sure\u00a0there\u2019s\u00a0more to come. Paul,\u00a0that\u2019s\u00a0our time for today. Thanks for talking with us.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Boehm:\u00a0Oh, thank you very much for having me. Appreciate it.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Host:\u00a0That\u2019s\u00a0it for this episode of Small Steps, Giant Leaps. For a transcript, and to catch all other episodes, visit nasa.gov\/podcasts. While\u00a0you\u2019re\u00a0there, check out our other podcasts like\u00a0Houston, We Have a Podcast, Curious Universe,\u00a0and\u00a0Universo curioso de la NASA.\u00a0As always, thanks for listening.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Outro: Three. Two. One. This is an official NASA podcast.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"\u00a0 NASA astronaut and Expedition 73 Flight Engineer Nichole Ayers replaces components on an experimental carbon dioxide removal…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":167554,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[23],"tags":[85,46,141,145],"class_list":["post-575989","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-space","tag-il","tag-israel","tag-science","tag-space"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/575989","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=575989"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/575989\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/167554"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=575989"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=575989"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=575989"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
![\"NASA](\"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/08\/iss073e0078896~large.jpg\")
NASA astronaut and Expedition 73 Flight Engineer Nichole Ayers replaces components on an experimental carbon dioxide removal device. Also called the Thermal Amine Scrubber, the advanced life support mechanism is testing a new method that removes carbon dioxide from the station\u2019s atmosphere and recovers water for oxygen generation. Credit: NASA<\/p>\n