Tim Semro Answers Your Weirdest Estate Planning Questions (SB1886)<\/a>.<\/p>\nWritten by: Kevin Bailey<\/p>\n
Episode transcript<\/p>\n
[00:00:00] opener: 30 seconds to air What is it about flowers for the show notes case? These are for the guests. Yeah.
[00:00:04] opener: Um,
[00:00:05] opener: we need some more books for these mics. Anyone
[00:00:07] opener: have the promo for the show notes? Wait, where\u2019s the Fiji water? Is thi- this isn\u2019t\u2026 Is this tap water? 15
[00:00:15] opener: seconds.
[00:00:16] Doug: Somebody get the
[00:00:17] opener: cat. I can\u2019t drink tap water.
[00:00:18] opener: Where\u2019s the cat? Where is he? Can, can someone tell Joe\u2019s mom to stop vacuuming? Perrier, it\u2019s not hard to find. Has anybody seen my
[00:00:23] Doug: hair gel?
[00:00:24] opener: This is Fiji. Artesian water. Natural.
[00:00:27] opener: Quiet on the set. Live in three, two-
[00:00:35] Doug: Live from the basement of the YouTube headquarters, it\u2019s a special roundtable episode of the Stacking Benjamins show
[00:00:51] Doug: I\u2019m Joe\u2019s mom\u2019s neighbor, Doug, and today we\u2019re revisiting all things kids and money. What are the questions you should be asking your kids? And don\u2019t worry if you don\u2019t have kids, we\u2019ll talk about how best to learn about money, whether you\u2019re a child or a child at heart. And as a super special bonus, we\u2019ll also share a special edition right in the middle of today\u2019s show of my incredible trivia.
[00:01:15] Doug: This is a great one. And now, here comes a guy who 100% identifies the kid at heart part of adulthood, it\u2019s Joe Saul-Sehy.
[00:01:30] Joe: What\u2019s your first hint, Doug? Was it, uh, my love of all things Disney maybe? Or the fact that I just met my kid at a theme park? Hey, everybody. I am Joe Saul-Sehy, and I\u2019m super happy that you\u2019re here with us helping us finish off summer by establishing the curriculum, right, for the rest of the year for you and your family.
[00:01:50] Joe: And we have a great group of people today here with us who are gonna help us do that. So let\u2019s introduce them. We\u2019ll start off with a woman who is in\u2026 I don\u2019t know where she is, but she\u2019s from\u2026 one of the few people from north of where I grew up. Karen Hallam from Gifting Sense is back. How are you, Karen?
[00:02:07] Karen: I\u2019m good, thanks, Joe. How are you?
[00:02:09] Joe: I am super. For the people that weren\u2019t with us when we had you on at the end of last year, tell everybody a little bit about Gifting Sense.
[00:02:18] Karen: Gifting Sense is a practical early financial education non-profit. We help people teach their kids to think before they buy.
[00:02:28] Joe: Excellent. And people will find it at giftingsense.org. And we\u2019re gonna link to everybody\u2019s great educational places for your family on our show notes at stackingbenjamins.com. Let\u2019s also meet a woman whose book I am super happy just came out, and I actually got to preview this book. I was super excited.
[00:02:49] Joe: Elena Trevax is here. How are you?
[00:02:51] Alaina: I\u2019m good. It\u2019s so great to be here.
[00:02:53] Joe: Tell me, you are a middle school teacher.
[00:02:56] Alaina: I am, yeah. So I teach, um, sixth, seventh, and eighth grade, a learning support class. Uh, so by day I work with kids who are just having a little bit of trouble with the curriculum, and we try approaching it a different way, and that\u2019s what I\u2026
[00:03:08] Alaina: That knowledge is what I took into the book.
[00:03:09] Joe: It\u2019s so interesting. My wife and I met as middle school track coaches and while I saw some teachers that shied away from middle schoolers, Elena- \u2026 they were my favorite people, you know? Yeah. You\u2019re adults on one side, still kids on the other. It\u2019s a great time of life.
[00:03:23] Alaina: Yeah, they\u2019re super fun.
[00:03:24] Joe: Awesome. Well, tell us about the book, because I got to see Follow the Money before it came out, but tell everybody how it works. \u2018Cause it\u2019s not really a\u2026 It, it, it isn\u2019t really a read from front to back book. It is really financial lessons.
[00:03:39] Alaina: Can I share what you said in your email to me, actually?
[00:03:42] Joe: Yeah. Okay. She\u2019s gonna use my words against me.
[00:03:45] Alaina: Well, I very much remember getting this message, um, and you said something to the effect of, you know, \u201cI was hesitant to review this book because a lot of kids\u2019 books about money kind of suck,\u201d and this one didn\u2019t. That\u2019s thrilling to hear. The book takes kids on a journey.
[00:03:59] Alaina: They\u2019re following the money through the book. So there are seven chapters, starting with what is money, talking about saving and earning and spending, all the way up to investing. It touches a little bit on cryptocurrency and some of the more complex concepts. And as the kids work through the book or read through the book, they are also completing activities.
[00:04:17] Alaina: So they get a job, they have to make choices with their money, and their goal is to end with as much money as they can.
[00:04:24] Joe: I had so much fun with it. And by the way, I do read a lot of books that are clearly\u2026 The people that write them, and I really don\u2019t wanna spend a lot of time on this because, you know, people that wanna teach kids about money, God, God bless all of you.
[00:04:38] Joe: But there are a lot of people that would do better by making it a little more entertaining.
[00:04:43] Alaina: Yeah. It\u2019s, it\u2019s not the most exciting topic for a 12, 13-year-old, so you gotta draw them in.
[00:04:49] Joe: You know what? If you\u2019ve got kids, it\u2019s a great, great way to focus your curriculum. As is, speaking of entertaining, this gentleman just won a Plutus Award this year because of the work he\u2019s done educating children.
[00:05:04] Joe: What\u2019s amazing is- He\u2019s a guy who hasn\u2019t finished high school yet. Rishi Vemdat joins us. How are you, Rishi?
[00:05:12] Rishi: I\u2019m great, Joe. Thanks for the introduction. I\u2019m excited for the conversation. It\u2019ll be fun.
[00:05:16] Joe: It\u2019s good to see you again, and I just love Easy Peasy. It is so awesome. Tell everybody about your YouTube channel.
[00:05:24] Rishi: Yeah, so the YouTube channel has now more than 1,300 videos covering both concepts for- Only \u2026 kids and beginners-
[00:05:31] Joe: Only 1,300. That\u2019s it. Yeah.
[00:05:34] Rishi: Concepts for kids and beginners as well as strategies for young adults and teens.
[00:05:39] Joe: How old were you when you started Easy Peasy?
[00:05:42] Rishi: I was eight, so during third grade.
[00:05:44] Joe: Wow.
[00:05:45] Joe: So I gotta ask, well, I actually had the, the opportunity to meet your parents, who were just awesome, by the way. No matter what you might think of them from time to time, I thought they were awesome. You must\u2019ve had help from Mom or Dad.
[00:05:57] Rishi: Yeah, in the, in the early days especially, they did do the animation and the fact-checking, and they\u2019ve been really supportive all along.
[00:06:03] Rishi: But of course, as I\u2019ve gotten older, I\u2019ve been able to take over more of the work, so, like video editing is something I do now. But it\u2019s been a journey, and they\u2019ve been really supportive through everything.
[00:06:13] Joe: Rishi, you only keep doing it for as long as you\u2019ve been doing it if you\u2019re excited about it and you\u2019re curious.
[00:06:19] Joe: What are you most curious about money now?
[00:06:22] Rishi: Right now, both in the recent videos and what I want to study going forward, like in college, is the behavioral side of it. Like, I\u2019ve done a lot with the concepts and the math, but I wanna continue looking into how people actually behave in the real world and how to help them do better through different strategies.
[00:06:39] Joe: That is so exciting. Wh- when do you graduate?
[00:06:43] Rishi: June 27.
[00:06:43] Joe: June 27. So one more year. You got one more year of school. Well, as you can see, we have a robust panel of people that are just gonna be phenomenal at helping you put together your curriculum this year for your kids. We\u2019ve got Rishi, Elena, Karen, Doug, and I are here.
[00:07:01] Joe: We\u2019re gonna dive in after we have a word from our sponsors who help us keep on keeping on. We\u2019re gonna hear from them, the people that make this possible, and then let\u2019s talk all things kids and money.
[00:07:20] Joe: Years ago, we did an episode called All Things Kids and Money, which was fantastic. We\u2019ll also link to that because these are timeless ideas. But there is a problem with teaching kids about money. Usually, adults decide what kids need to know. So today, we\u2019ve assembled somebody who\u2019s spent years helping kids make better spending decisions, somebody who\u2019s spent more than a decade teaching middle schoolers, and somebody who actually is kind of a kid still.
[00:07:49] Joe: I know he\u2019s a senior in high school, but he still is. Although calling Rishi merely a kid, I think, seems a little unfair to the rest of us. He started teaching finances, he said, at eight. So, A, and Rishi, you also just recently passed the CFP exam?
[00:08:04] Rishi: Yeah, it, it was quite a grind, but, you know, I\u2019m really happy that I was able to do it, and it\u2019s been a fun experience, I would say.
[00:08:11] Joe: It\u2019s funny. When I was 16, I\u2026 My primary financial strategy involved figuring out whether I had enough gas to get home. Like, that was, that was the primary thing that I thought about at your age. Let\u2019s do this. Let\u2019s start off with this question. If adults are setting the curriculum, what, what are parents getting wrong?
[00:08:30] Joe: Elena, let\u2019s start with you. Where do you think parents might be getting it wrong with the curriculum?
[00:08:35] Alaina: Yeah. I think it\u2019s easy to wait too long. There\u2019s so many things. You know, I\u2019m a parent of little kids, and there\u2019s so much going on. You need to explain a lot, right, when you\u2019re teaching your kids about money.
[00:08:46] Alaina: And so I think often people just wait too long trying to make sure their kid can do the math before they start to learn about a budget or trying to make sure that they can kind of think critically before they\u2019re making those decisions. But even the littlest kids can start to learn about making choices when they\u2019re spending or about our family is prioritizing this or over this to kind of balance the spending, and just start to get comfortable with having those conversations in your family and with your kids.
[00:09:13] Joe: Karen, you\u2019re also focused mainly on middle schoolers. Does that track for you? Did you see some kids that come in really ready and other kids that are completely unprepared?
[00:09:22] Karen: Well, I\u2019m, I mean, I, I\u2019m like a human bobblehead doll when Elena\u2019s speaking. I think we, we wait too late. We confuse mathematical acuity with starting to talk about money.
[00:09:34] Karen: I think the biggest gift parents can give their kids is to normalize talking about money, that everybody makes trade-offs, that it\u2019s scarce for many and finite for all.
[00:09:47] Joe: Rishi, from your comments section on YouTube, you gotta see a lot of comments. Some of them may be lost. Some of them may be think it\u2019s basic.
[00:09:55] Joe: Where\u2026 What, what do you see?
[00:09:56] Rishi: Yeah, I, I agree completely of course that, like, starting early is really important. Even before middle school, like, during elementary school, like, is a great time to start. But I also think that the way parents talk to kids is often, it has room for improvement. Like, if you\u2019re talking to your kid about money early, that\u2019s amazing, but if you\u2019re doing it as a lecture, then it\u2019s not as effective as it could be, \u2019cause if you\u2019re just talking about it, then the kid probably isn\u2019t gonna really be interested.
[00:10:21] Rishi: So Karen, you were saying it\u2019s a lot better to involve the kids in the activities and the day-to-day things related to finance. Like, I remember when I was three, my parents used to let me swipe the credit card at the store when we were checking out, and they told me how that\u2019s how they\u2019re paying for it.
[00:10:36] Rishi: Even though there isn\u2019t any cash, they\u2019re still paying for the things. So kind of in that way, involving in, in the activities instead of lectures.
[00:10:44] Joe: Is that what, Rishi, adults fundamentally, you think, often misunderstand, is that it has to be\u2026 Almost like, Elena, you and I were talking about earlier, but Rishi, do you think it\u2019s that we fail to make it entertaining?
[00:10:55] Rishi: I think that\u2019s definitely a big part of it, uh, \u2019cause if you can make something entertaining, then there\u2019s the much better chance that the kids are gonna listen and actually use the strategies going forward.
[00:11:04] Joe: Elena, and you\u2019ve had middle schoolers in front of you for more than a decade. Mm-hmm. When do you see their eyes light up when you\u2019re teaching them about money, and when do their eyes start to glaze over?
[00:11:14] Alaina: Yeah. When I see the seventh and eighth graders in particular, they get excited about the idea of making money. Investing especially becomes this magical idea, uh, for middle schoolers, but some of them don\u2019t have the foundation underneath that. So they\u2019re, they made an account on Investopedia or somewhere else online, right?
[00:11:33] Alaina: They\u2019re playing the stock market investing game, but they don\u2019t understand all the implications that would be behind that if that\u2019s in real life. They\u2019re just super excited that, \u201cOh, you know, my investments are making money.\u201d
[00:11:46] Joe: It is so interesting that you say that because a good friend of mine who could have also been on this panel, Gene Natoli, who works a lot in the Pittsburgh area with kids, Gene told me that when he first started teaching kids about money, Elena, to your point, it was all about staying out of debt, creating a budget.
[00:12:05] Joe: Kids\u2019 eyes glazed over immediately. When he taught them the rule of 72 and how to put money in a Roth IRA, and if you just put a little bit in with your high school money, that you could be a millionaire by the time you retire, he was, he was so excited, Elena. He was like, \u201cI can be a millionaire on not that much money?\u201d
[00:12:22] Joe: He said the whole room went crazy.
[00:12:25] Alaina: Yeah, and then how do you kind of integrate the two, right? They, they need to know how to make a budget, how to follow- Sure \u2026 a budget, and it\u2019s- it\u2019s not as exciting by any means. But, you know, like we were saying, Rishi, to integrate that into, like, the daily conversations.
[00:12:37] Alaina: You know, that stereotype, \u201cOh, we have food at home. We\u2019re not gonna stop.\u201d Add another sentence there to explain, \u201cAnd we\u2019re choosing to spend our money on this instead, so we\u2019re not going to get takeout.\u201d Um, super natural, super easy, and it doesn\u2019t have to be, it doesn\u2019t have to be technical.
[00:12:51] Joe: Yeah, I love the idea of Rishi at three years old swiping the credit card, like, just starting to build what you\u2019re talking about.
[00:12:58] Joe: Karen, this seems to be exactly where your line of sight is, is this area where kids often glaze over, like the spending decisions. This is w- what Gifting Sense is all about.
[00:13:09] Karen: Right. I mean, I really want kids to know that they have the power to shape their own future. When we show them the possibility how to avoid disappointment, how to create a future that seems interesting and exciting to them, how to get and use information to build that future, that deciding not to spend money isn\u2019t unexciting because you\u2019re preserving future purchasing power for something that might be far more compelling, this is, I think, really powerful for them, and that\u2019s when I see the light bulb go on.
[00:13:42] Joe: Well, and I love that kids gotta create the business plan. They have to create the spending plan, Karen, in your program.
[00:13:48] Karen: Right. I mean, they, what they do is they evaluate a purchase and they amass all of the thinking that\u2019s gone into deciding whether or not they wanna discuss it with their parents, and they\u2019re able to generate a shareable summary of all that math and thinking.
[00:14:02] Karen: And we tell them, \u201cThis is your PowerPoint or your agenda to sit down and have a relaxed, productive conversation about spending.\u201d What\u2019s interesting is how often kids stop themselves in the middle of that process because when they pause, gather information, and reflect, they uncover that actually this potential purchase isn\u2019t that interesting after all.
[00:14:23] Karen: When they realize what they have to give up to get it, they go, \u201cActually, I\u2019d rather do something else next week, next month.\u201d That\u2019s where it\u2019s really exciting to parents. They\u2019re telling us they\u2019re getting fewer better quality requests to spend.
[00:14:36] Joe: On those expenses that are, you know, money that\u2019s spent on kids, how much financial control should kids actually have, Rishi, when it comes to, like, maybe not the roof over your head, but clothes, a phone, stuff for school supplies?
[00:14:56] Joe: How much financial control should you have over that stuff versus entertainment, gifts, et cetera?
[00:15:02] Rishi: I think the exact split of like what you think, like from the parents\u2019 perspective, what they think they should pay for and what the allowance is for, I think the details like depend on the parents. But I think the main idea is that whatever the allowance is supposed to buy is something that the kid should have like full control over so that the money actually feels like it\u2019s theirs.
[00:15:23] Rishi: So just exactly like if you\u2019re getting the money from a job, it\u2019s the same thing. It\u2019s just of course from the parents. So in that way, the kids are able to make their own spending decisions and also make some mistakes, right? Like if it\u2019s for entertainment, for example, maybe they buy a video game and then next week there\u2019s a concert they wanna go to but they won\u2019t be able to do it.
[00:15:43] Rishi: And then of course it\u2019s not the end of the world, right? There will be more concerts, but in that way, having control of the entertainment, they can see how spending money was really easy, but then there\u2019s consequences to that. So in that way, the control really can show them lessons better than just talking at them.
[00:15:59] Joe: Elena, Rishi\u2019s talking as a high school senior, and I can see that, and maybe even in middle school, but does this have some age barriers in terms of how much financial control kids should have?
[00:16:10] Alaina: Yeah. I think it depends on what the kid is responsible for, Rishi, right? Um, and that\u2019s exactly I think what you were saying in the sense that the littlest kids, they don\u2019t have a lot of things that they need that are beyond, you know, what the parent is paying for.
[00:16:24] Alaina: My kids need sweatshirts or, you know, new shoes, but that\u2019s something I\u2019m getting and they\u2019re too little to care about brands. But I still want them to be learning about money, um, and so we\u2019re trying an allowance. It\u2019s that challenge of like, well, what are they gonna do with it? But I do think that it\u2019s their money and they should have control over it with whatever they\u2019re spending it on.
[00:16:45] Alaina: So I took my kids to a bookstore yesterday, so their money, their, their choice , but also guided by me. Let\u2019s go look, um, and see, you know, what you might wanna spend money on. One of my kids did not find a book. Instead, he found a stuffy, a stuffed animal that he absolutely wants to have. So we didn\u2019t bring our money yesterday.
[00:17:04] Alaina: We were just shopping with our eyes, but he\u2019s asked, I mean five times, \u201cWhen are we gonna go back? I have my wallet.\u201d He left it on the counter last night because he\u2019s just so excited to spend his money. Is he going to value that purchase over the long term? We\u2019ll find out.
[00:17:20] Joe: Well, and that\u2019s interesting, Elena.
[00:17:22] Joe: I mean, my natural follow-up to that is should we deliberately let our kids make some bad money decisions?
[00:17:29] Alaina: I think we have to. And it\u2019s so, I mean, I\u2019ve already tried to talk him out of buying this. It\u2019s a raccoon. It\u2019s a raccoon stuffed animal. And I, I, uh, my first instinct was like, \u201cYou don\u2019t, we don\u2019t need that.\u201d
[00:17:39] Alaina: But we have to let them make mistakes, \u2019cause that\u2019s where they\u2019re gonna learn, and that\u2019s what I\u2019m telling parents all day long about the middle schoolers that I work with. We pitch middle school as, like, the safest place to make a mistake. The grades, you know, they\u2019re- nobody is gonna ask for your middle school grades when you\u2019re applying to college.
[00:17:53] Alaina: It\u2019s okay. So you can make mistakes, and the little kids can do that, even, you know, the teenagers can do that with money, too.
[00:18:00] Joe: Rishi, let\u2019s talk about, you know, high school seniors. Elena said that a lot of younger kids aren\u2019t into brands yet, but certainly high school seniors are, right?
[00:18:09] Rishi: Yeah.
[00:18:10] Joe: You see people that maybe have saved 250 bucks.
[00:18:13] Joe: They desperately want a pair of sneakers that cost $200. Do you think parents should let them buy the shoes, or should they hold back?
[00:18:22] Rishi: Well, first of all, I agree that definitely like letting kids make mistakes is really important, like you were saying, Elena, \u2019cause that\u2019s how they\u2019re gonna learn. Uh, compared to just hearing about it, if they actually have the experience of, like you said, wasting the money on something that they don\u2019t care about, then they\u2019re gonna learn a lot more.
[00:18:37] Rishi: But I also think- But now
[00:18:38] Joe: it\u2019s not $30 or $40, I just increased it to $200. I mean, now we\u2019re talking some, some big, big money, not the raccoon.
[00:18:46] Rishi: Well, then they\u2019re also gonna learn more, right? So I think it, it depends on the kid specifically and the family situation, but for the most part, I think it\u2019s okay.
[00:18:53] Rishi: Although I just wanna say that parents knowing what, if their kid is buying is a waste of money, I wanna push that back there because like parents might not always know whether their kid is gonna get a lot of value out of something. Like, I remember once I used half of my birthday money to buy a VR headset, and I used that for like two weeks and then just stopped using it.
[00:19:12] Rishi: I\u2019m sure my parents knew that beforehand, they let me buy it anyway, but then a few years ago, I bought a computer mouse for $100, which probably sounds crazy, but that also increased my productivity, and it was really comfortable, too. So I think my parents probably thought that was also gonna be a waste, but I\u2019ve been using that for years, and it\u2019s been a really great purchase.
[00:19:32] Rishi: So I think letting the kid buy what they want is a good idea, and some of it will be a mistake, but I also don\u2019t think pushing back on what a parent thinks will be a waste is always a good idea, \u2019cause they might just not
[00:19:43] Karen: know. I mean, instincts come from near misses, and we don\u2019t let kids have near misses anymore.
[00:19:49] Karen: And then we wring our hands and go, \u201cGeez, what\u2019s wrong with these kids? They have no instincts.\u201d So I think they, they have to make mistakes, and this conversation is reminding me of a question we ask in every workshop, which is, what\u2019s a purchase that you just, you know, use all the time, you\u2019re like, \u201cThat is the best money I ever spent.
[00:20:07] Karen: I totally don\u2019t regret it.\u201d So I could ask each of you that question, and then I just reiterate, okay, that\u2019s the feeling we want you to have most of the time. It\u2019s not possible to have that feeling all the time, but we want you to feel most of the time that you\u2019ve really spent your money wisely, which means amount doesn\u2019t matter, what you spent it on doesn\u2019t matter.
[00:20:26] Karen: It\u2019s to your point, Rishi, did you get the perceived amount of value, enjoyment, use, whatever it is that\u2019s a priority for you?
[00:20:34] Joe: I love the fact, Karen, that in Gifting Sense you help kids build the plan ahead of time to envision themself using it and thinking about it thoroughly so it\u2019s not like the VR headset like you envisioned.
[00:20:44] Joe: You know, what are all the different ways? Build, build the use case scenario. But I love, Elena, the other part of what Rishi said, which was because parents don\u2019t know, it, it, it seems to me that maybe having a calendar, I don\u2019t know, a, some calendar thing to circle back with your kid two weeks from now and go, \u201cWas the raccoon worth it?\u201d
[00:21:03] Joe: would be would be like the, maybe the way to handle it.
[00:21:07] Alaina: Yeah, I think that makes a ton of sense. I had to really check myself. You know, it\u2019s not my job to decide if it\u2019s worth it to him, and maybe it will be. We came home and we read a book about a raccoon. You know, that\u2019s something that is exciting and interesting to him, and that\u2019s exactly what his money\u2019s for.
[00:21:24] Joe: So failure is part of the curriculum.
[00:21:26] Alaina: Absolutely. 100%. Yeah.
[00:21:28] Joe: Let\u2019s talk about age groups before we go to\u2026 D- Doug\u2019s so excited about his trivia competition today that we definitely have to do a great job with Doug\u2019s trivia. I think everyone\u2019s gonna like it. But before we do that, let\u2019s talk about ages and kids.
[00:21:42] Joe: What should kids actually know and when? So I\u2019m a parent who\u2019s a stacker, and I agree kids need experience, but I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhat the heck am I actually supposed to teach them?\u201d So what I\u2019d like to do, I don\u2019t wanna create, like, a 37-item checklist, but I would like to give you guys some age ranges, and you tell me maybe some of the appropriate things.
[00:22:01] Joe: So Elena, let\u2019s start with you. Let\u2019s, let\u2019s start with ages six to nine.
[00:22:06] Alaina: For the little ones, especially at that six-year-old side, I think the most important thing is whatever you can do, make it visual. Just that, you know, how money works, if it\u2019s cash, if it\u2019s coins, if it\u2019s cards, and explaining we have a bank account and the money gets into our bank account in this way, right from the job that we go to or from another source.
[00:22:24] Alaina: So the where money comes from. And then what we use our money for. We\u2019re spending it on these things. We\u2019re saving it for these things. And how that works. So even for those younger ones too, like, a visual representation of what saving looks like to make it so much more clear to them is a great place to start.
[00:22:44] Joe: Kids often have a problem, Rishi. You mentioned this. Your parents said you swiped the card, right? I remember my kids when they were growing up, it was kind of at the dawn of doing that a lot of the time, and yet they see these paper bills come out, they see these coins, and then you see the swipe. At what age do you think we begin knowing the difference between a dime, a quarter, a dollar, or is that important at all anymore?
[00:23:07] Rishi: I, I guess that, like, cash, of course, on its own is becoming less important. What\u2019s behind it, the meaning that you were talking about, Elena, that\u2019s more important. Like, how you get income and then either that income goes into bills or that goes to a credit card payment, and kind of that, that cycle and how you\u2019re able to pay for things, no matter what the medium is.
[00:23:26] Rishi: Like, now it\u2019s sometimes buy now, pay later, which has all its own problems, but the idea of spending to buy things, I think that\u2019s still really important for kids to learn
[00:23:34] Karen: about. I, I think spending cash is the only way for a really young person to understand that spending is giving something up, that that\u2019s the trade-off.
[00:23:44] Karen: I think, you know, tapping or the magic box, I think it\u2019s too abstract for little kids. I think they really need to start spending cash, and sometimes it\u2019s tricky. There are a lot of places that don\u2019t even take cash anymore, but I think you really wanna start there.
[00:23:58] Joe: We used an older version of Monopoly Junior, believe it or not, to teach our kids denominations, because you would buy the rollercoaster or you would buy the popcorn machine at the theme park, and it cost f- $3, and you\u2019d have these bills that all looked the same.
[00:24:15] Joe: They were just different colors with a different number on it. And I remember my kids getting this huge aha when they would hand me one bill with a five on it, and I\u2019d hand them two back, and they\u2019re like, \u201cWhy are you handing me two bills back when I only gave you one?\u201d Like, that was amazing.
[00:24:29] Karen: Have you seen the TED Talk where Adam Carroll plays a game of Monopoly with his three kids, and he gives them- Yes
[00:24:36] Karen: each, I think it was $10,000, right? So they\u2019re, they\u2019re playing Monopoly with real cash. Wow, all of the sudden, that game was much more interesting. It\u2019s fantastic, right? I mean, he got a job done.
[00:24:48] Joe: I know, Elena, you\u2019re looking forward to doing that with your kids, taking out 10 grand and-
[00:24:52] Alaina: Well, you know what we are doing.
[00:24:54] Alaina: I\u2019ve been rolling out an allowance with them. This Sunday we\u2019re gonna read a book, kind of a book about, like, what money is, some facts about it, just one of those fun, like, picture dictionaries. And then we\u2019re gonna do, it\u2019s the most teacher activity, we\u2019re going to lay out 100 pennies, and we\u2019re gonna lay out, you know, the number of nickels and dimes, and then a dollar, and kind of map out this representation of how do those correlate to each other.
[00:25:17] Alaina: Hopefully they start to understand, you know, 100 pennies is a dollar, this is what I can buy for a dollar, and just starting to get there. Even if they can\u2019t, the littlest one can\u2019t count all the way, right? But we\u2019re getting there.
[00:25:28] Joe: I thought about some of these kind of heady concepts, and I\u2019m wondering if six to nine is the time to begin thinking about these.
[00:25:35] Joe: Like, uh, the idea of earning money. Do you think, Karen, this is a good time, age six to nine, maybe even before, that, uh, this idea of earning money and money\u2019s not finite, I gotta go get it?
[00:25:48] Karen: Everybody has a view on this. My father would say that\u2019s why we have many different flavors of ice cream. My personal feeling is that spending the little bit of money that comes your way when you\u2019re a kid is a m- more natural starting point.
[00:26:01] Karen: I think a lot of parents delay discussing money, teaching their kids about money, because they don\u2019t wanna rob them of their childhood, you know? They don\u2019t wanna put that pressure on them. So I think if they get a little bit of money for a birthday or a holiday gift, and then, you know, they\u2019re thinking about how they could spend it, that\u2019s more natural in my mind.
[00:26:20] Karen: I think that middle school is a perfect time to start thinking about earning. It\u2019s also, again, naturally when it happens. You know, an 11-year-old can take the Red Cross babysitting course, they start to look after younger siblings, they start to do, you know, yard work with machinery. You know, you don\u2019t put an eight-year-old on a lawnmower, but you put an 11-year-old on a lawnmower, no problem.
[00:26:39] Karen: So I think a, a little older for me.
[00:26:42] Joe: Is this because\u2026 I mean, what, what I think I\u2019m hearing is in a very technical term, the ego, right? The fact that this affects me and, and me spending money, me having money and spending my money is more important than how the heck mom gets her money or dad gets his money?
[00:26:59] Karen: Well, we just, it needs to be relevant to be engaging and helpful. And it\u2019s a little abstract, right? I mean, a, a child, okay, they can earn money, but they know they\u2019re not in charge of a household, they don\u2019t have all of these responsibilities, so- You know, if they start with the decision that feels real to them, which is should I buy this item or experience, should I ask for this item or experience?
[00:27:20] Karen: You were saying, you know, reflect on it. We call it hits and misses. At the end of the school year in June, I really encourage parents, I said, \u201cI know the temptation is to just hurl the backpack in the corner of the laundry room or the garage, but if you just take 10 minutes out and say, \u2018Okay, look back on the past school year.
[00:27:36] Karen: What really worked? What was super helpful? What were you jonesing for in September and actually you didn\u2019t end up using it that much or it didn\u2019t perform the way you wanted?\u2019 And then tuck that list away for the end of August when you go back-to-school shopping for the next year.\u201d Because those hits and misses can really help you avoid them going forward.
[00:27:54] Joe: You know, another one of these heady concepts, Rishi, is, uh, this idea of waiting, right? Delayed gratification. Were you in this age range, six to nine, when you started learning delayed gratification, or do you remember was that earlier, later than this?
[00:28:08] Rishi: I think delayed gratification when it comes to an allowance started earlier.
[00:28:12] Rishi: Like, I think I got an allowance starting when I was five. So like the idea of saving up money and waiting to get something that I wanted that was more expensive, I think in that way it can definitely start earlier. But delayed gratification is also, it\u2019s something that\u2019s really important for all ages, including for adults.
[00:28:29] Rishi: It\u2019s very easy to, like whether you\u2019re a kid who\u2019s spending their allowance on something they\u2019ll regret or an adult who\u2019s spending a lot more money on something they\u2019ll regret, it\u2019s an important skill. So I think the earlier people start developing that, the better it\u2019ll be overall.
[00:28:43] Joe: Let\u2019s go to the next age group, 10 to 13.
[00:28:45] Joe: I mean, a, a big part of this, Alana\u2019s middle school. That\u2019s that\u2019s where y- you come in, and then also of course Karen comes in, but what, what changes? What are we teaching at 10
[00:28:57] Alaina: to 13? Karen I think mentioned the kids\u2019 motivation, right? They are in middle school motivated to manage their relationships with their peers, and often that means, you know, going to ice cream or going to the movies or spending their money on something with their friends.
[00:29:11] Alaina: As they\u2019re wanting to do that, they\u2019re also gonna be a little bit more motivated to earn. And if they get an allowance and they\u2019re finding their allowance isn\u2019t enough, or if they don\u2019t get an allowance and they just need money, uh, to spend, they\u2019re gonna have that motivation. And their math skills have also increased, right?
[00:29:26] Alaina: They\u2019re much more capable at calculating and understanding the way finances are working, right? They can calculate, with some help, how interest would work in their savings account, and they can start to learn those more complex concepts.
[00:29:40] Joe: That is so fun. I remember, Karen, this was the time, for me anyway, that I was interested no longer just in the cool cartoons like on E- easy peasy, but you know, cartoons on TV, and I was interested in the commercials, man, all the stuff that they were selling me middle school.
[00:30:00] Joe: I feel like advertising and fighting against advertising really comes online at this age too.
[00:30:05] Karen: Well, and that is so important in this age of AI. I mean, kids can get answers to any question, and what we wanna do is help them understand what to do with those answers, right? Not to take advertising or influencers or even suggestions from family and friends as 100% authoritative, but to develop their own judgment as to what constitutes a purchase they\u2019re gonna be happy with over the, the longer term.
[00:30:33] Joe: Let\u2019s think about some of your audience members, Rishi. I mean, in middle school, this is when they\u2019re starting to play games, and all these games have currencies, right? And hey, if you just put some money in the system, how do you help a middle schooler get through, you know, all the extras you can get in, what, Roblox or or, uh, Sea of Thieves or whatever game they\u2019re playing?
[00:30:54] Rishi: I think definitely a lot of games, whether it\u2019s, yeah, like Fortnite or Roblox, mobile games, it\u2019s designed to earn money, but the way that it, like, manipulates people to do that is, is kind of evil because, like, you can buy the currency with real money, but it, the exchange rate isn\u2019t gonna be easy. So you\u2019re just spending, like, 200 V-Bucks, I don\u2019t even know how many, or you\u2019re spending 1,000 gems on something.
[00:31:17] Rishi: So especially for, like, a middle schooler or elementary schooler, they\u2019re not going to translate that back to real money on their own. And al- there\u2019s always gonna be a little bit of that premium currency left over because that\u2019s how they design the prices. So in that way, there\u2019s a lot of manipulation that\u2019s going on, kind of like with buy now, pay later, but in a different context.
[00:31:37] Rishi: And I think one way that kids can fight against this is by, of course, considering how expensive something is in real money by converting it back, even if it might be a little annoying. And also, if they get an allowance or if they have a job, like you\u2019re saying babysitting, then thinking about how expensive that is in months of their allowance or weeks of their allowance or in hours of work.
[00:31:59] Rishi: And if even that doesn\u2019t work and they really wanna pay $20 for a Fortnite skin, then I\u2019d say, yeah, go for it, but it has to come from your allowance. So then if you make the decision that you think it\u2019s worth it, then you\u2019ll have the consequences of that, whether that\u2019s you\u2019re really happy about it or you regret it
[00:32:14] Joe: That\u2019s fantastic.
[00:32:16] Joe: This also seems, Elena, to be a time when, man, mom\u2019s gotta be kind of vigilant. \u2018Cause I\u2019ve, I\u2019ve heard so many horror stories about kids buying $100 worth of premium stuff b- before mom even knows the credit card\u2019s gone.
[00:32:27] Alaina: Yeah, absolutely. You know, Rishi, as you were saying, they will learn the lesson, right, of spending that money.
[00:32:33] Alaina: And I almost wonder as a parent too, if they spend that money, how can you also help manufacture a little lesson? Maybe they\u2019re getting a lot of joy out of the Fortnite skin or whatever it is, right? Or maybe they\u2019re not, you know. But how do you help them see that because they chose to buy this, they cannot buy or cannot spend their money on this other thing?
[00:32:56] Alaina: You know, maybe that\u2019s cruel parenting. Um, but if you can, if you can manufacture that lesson in some way, then they\u2019re gonna get it.
[00:33:05] Karen: It\u2019s denominating the cost of these in-app purchases and currencies with real dollars and real stuff on planet Earth, right? The perfect thing is when they\u2019re jonesing for something, a jacket, Air Jordans, soccer cleats, whatever it is, and say, \u201cOh, well, you know, geez, we could get brand X versus brand Y, except we\u2019ve spent the additional 20, $30 on whatever it was last month, so now we can\u2019t do it.\u201d
[00:33:32] Joe: Early lessons in opportunity cost. I mean, we obviously don\u2019t call it opportunity cost with a 10-year-old-
[00:33:37] Karen: Right \u2026
[00:33:38] Joe: but it truly is.
[00:33:39] Karen: And I think that\u2019s the benefit of letting them make the choice when they live opportunity cost, when they live delayed gratification, when they live decision architecture, then when they get to high school, they\u2019re gonna have the experience and understand the jargon, right?
[00:33:53] Karen: It\u2019s, I think it\u2019s a far more powerful starting point than learning about it and experiencing it for the very first time in high school. That\u2019s why we wanna bring these lessons earlier.
[00:34:04] Alaina: And I do think we could use those technical terms, the opportunity cost, the delayed gratification. Even with those 10-year-olds, you don\u2019t need to drive it home all the way and define it like a textbook, but just really lightly explain, you know, \u201cWe have the opportunity to do this, and we have the opportunity to do this, and because of this we can or we cannot do this, and that\u2019s called opportunity cost.\u201d
[00:34:24] Karen: Right. Every dollar can only be spent once.
[00:34:26] Alaina: Yeah. Touch on it once, and then when they circle back to it again, they\u2019re gonna have an even greater understanding.
[00:34:32] Rishi: And I agree that it\u2019s really important to talk about those concepts. Like, a lot of my videos are about explaining those into simple terms, especially for a elementary school, middle school, and high schoolers.
[00:34:43] Rishi: But, like, that\u2019s an- another side of it, right? Like, we were talking about allowance and what parents can do, but the concept and understanding that foundation is another part of financial literacy. So that plus what parents do and of course in schools, together that\u2019s gonna be a lot more effective than one part on its own.
[00:35:01] Joe: After our break for today\u2019s trivia question, I wanna talk about 14 to 18-year-olds. We might have an expert in that area with us here. And then I wanna talk about some of the things that we brought up tangentially, which are money conversations, about having good money conversations versus maybe some scary money conversations, or should we have the scary money conversations?
[00:35:22] Joe: And also, you\u2019ve all mentioned allowances. We\u2019re gonna go there, too. We\u2019re gonna talk about how to build an effective allowance. But at the halfway point, if you\u2019re new to Stacking Benjamins, of every Stacking Benjamins show, we have a trivia question from Doug, but on Fridays we have a year-long trivia competition between our three frequent contributors, Paula Pant from Afford Anything, Jesse Cramer from Personal Finance for Long-Term Investors, and OG.
[00:35:48] Joe: And guess what? You don\u2019t hear any of those people here. So today, we are having a very special competition. So the good news, Elena, Karen, and Rishi, this is an exhibition game, so you don\u2019t have to worry about who\u2019s winning the year-long competition. But I think that everybody listening\u2019s going to be excited to see how close you can come to today\u2019s answer.
[00:36:09] Joe: And we drew straws. Uh, in fact, Elena, Karen, and Rishi don\u2019t even know that you drew straws ahead of time. So here\u2019s the order we\u2019re gonna go in. Rishi, for better or worse, you get the first guess. So if you nail it, Elena and Karen won\u2019t even have a chance. Karen, you\u2019re gonna go second, which is good. You get to see what Rishi does first.
[00:36:28] Joe: And Elena, you get to guess last, so as long as they don\u2019t guess it, you kinda have the ability to look and see. Although Paula Pant has had that all year, that ability, and she\u2019s in last place. So who kn- I always think it\u2019s a benefit to go last. I would wanna go last, but so far it hasn\u2019t paid off. But Doug, we need a question.
[00:36:47] Joe: What\u2019s today\u2019s question?
[00:36:53] Doug: Stackers, I\u2019m Joe\u2019s mom\u2019s neighbor, Doug, and the one thing kids will learn very quickly is that life is all about getting compensated. For example, I\u2019ve negotiated a second helping of Blue Bell\u2019s Great Divide ice cream if I don\u2019t flub this up. So here we go. When it comes to getting compensated, for most children, their first opportunity to see this in action isn\u2019t when they complete a chore or they have a birthday, something Joe\u2019s mom said I apparently haven\u2019t done in 20 years, which is why she never gives me any money in my cards.
[00:37:23] Doug: That\u2019s a bummer. No, it\u2019s when a body part falls out. That\u2019s right, for most kids, it\u2019s the Tooth Fairy leaving money under the pillow that lets kids know that trading enamel for cash is an acceptable human practice. But the Tooth Fairy has had some serious inflation over the years. In the early days, they left just a penny or two.
[00:37:45] Doug: Here\u2019s today\u2019s question: According to Delta Dental, what\u2019s the latest amount they report the Tooth Fairy leaving under the average pillow? I\u2019ll be back right after I check this out myself. Maybe if I loosen one of these, I can get, like, 20 bucks for the Sizzler happy hour
[00:38:05] Joe: Doug, you may wanna rethink that, but Rishi you\u2019re going first, man.
[00:38:09] Joe: Kids and teeth? When did you lose your last tooth?
[00:38:13] Rishi: I think it\u2019s been a while. I don\u2019t remember exactly.
[00:38:17] Joe: Been a few years. It\u2019s been
[00:38:18] Karen: longer for me, I promise.
[00:38:21] Joe: What do you think Delta Dental has calculated to be the amount the Tooth Fairy is leaving this year under the average pillow?
[00:38:29] Rishi: I think the generosity has definitely gone up with inflation, like you\u2019re saying.
[00:38:33] Rishi: So since I ha- had money from the Tooth Fairy, it\u2019s probably gone up, so I\u2019m not sure exactly what it\u2019ll be, but let\u2019s go with $10.
[00:38:42] Joe: $10. Karen, you think that\u2019s a high number or a low number?
[00:38:46] Karen: No, I think it\u2019s spot on. I was gonna say $10.
[00:38:49] Joe: Oh, well, you can\u2019t say the same number, so.
[00:38:52] Karen: I can\u2019t? Okay. $9.99.
[00:38:55] Joe: And that\u2019s how you play.
[00:38:57] Karen: I think it\u2019s 10 bucks.
[00:38:58] Joe: Well, that\u2019s the way it, the game is played, Rishi, because you guessed first. She chopped you off at the knees. Now if Elena says $10 and one penny, Rishi\u2019s- \u2026 Rishi\u2019s out. But, but Elena, what do you think? We got $10 and $9.99.
[00:39:11] Alaina: Well, is this Price Is Right rules? Like, can you go over? Is it closest?
[00:39:15] Alaina: You
[00:39:15] Joe: can go over. We used to play Price of, Is Right rules, but, um, we- Mm-hmm \u2026 we had some angry stackers about that. Like, people really get into\u2026 Yeah, they just want closest.
[00:39:27] Alaina: So I f- that\u2019s interesting, though, that we think the Tooth Fairy has really increased. I was gonna say five, and I thought that was high.
[00:39:33] Alaina: Um, my Tooth Fairy might need to- \u2026 revisit its calculations. You know, I\u2019m gonna do it, though. I\u2019m gonna say $5.
[00:39:41] Joe: $5 for Elena. All right. So we\u2019ve got, uh, Elena, who has the cheap Tooth Fairy at five bucks, Rishi with the most expensive Tooth Fairy at 10, Karen right there at $9.99. Who\u2019s gonna get it? Do you have it?
[00:39:55] Joe: Everybody put in your guesses. We\u2019ll be right back. Rishi, you kicked it off at 10 bucks, which looked great until Karen took away your downside, but you still feel good? Maybe it\u2019s 15 now.
[00:40:06] Rishi: We\u2019ll see.
[00:40:08] Joe: Karen, if it\u2019s between $9.99 and what? About $7.50-ish, you\u2019re the winner, so you feeling good?
[00:40:15] Karen: I, I am feeling good.
[00:40:16] Karen: I mean, I would have preferred to have been able to lay claim to $10, \u2019cause I really think that\u2019s the number, but.
[00:40:22] Joe: And Elena, you still think those two are grossly too high?
[00:40:25] Alaina: I do.
[00:40:27] Joe: Well, let\u2019s see. Doug, you\u2019re the only one that knows. That\u2019s a scary phrase, but Doug, you\u2019re the only one that knows. Who\u2019s gonna take this home?
[00:40:34] Joe: Rishi, Karen, or Elena?
[00:40:40] Doug: Hey there, Stackers. I\u2019m sizzler lover, but guy who needs teeth to appreciate it, Joe\u2019s mom\u2019s neighbor, Doug. During the break, I went upstairs to get some help removing this tooth when Joe\u2019s mom informed me, \u201cYou only get two sets of these things your entire life.\u201d Who knew? Wait, what? What\u2019s that now? Most people only get\u2026
[00:41:00] Doug: Really? Well, maybe I need to use Google for more than just cat videos. Anywho, here was today\u2019s question: How much money, according to Delta Dental, does the Tooth Fairy leave under the average pillow? Now, kids, if you\u2019re listening, this differs a ton regionally, so your number might be lower or higher depending on wind speed, the current economy in the area, the number of other kids with teeth leaving on that day.
[00:41:26] Doug: She only has so much money per day, per kid. But the average is\u2026 Well, I\u2019m not gonna tell you that, but I will say it was $4.16 less than what Rishi guessed, $4.15 less than what Karen guessed, and 84 cents more than what Elena guessed, \u2019cause the correct answer is $5.84, making Elena our winner. Woo-hoo.
[00:42:00] Alaina: Good job. All right. And the fans go wild, Elena. Well, I\u2019m glad to know that, uh, I don\u2019t have the cheap Tooth Fairy over here and we\u2019re- \u2026 hopefully right, right in the middle. Y-
[00:42:03] Joe: you are right there. But a lot of the nation\u2019s kids that are listening, Karen and Rishi, want your Tooth Fairy. They want the $10 Tooth Fairy.
[00:42:11] Joe: Like, can we move to where Rishi and Karen live? So-
[00:42:14] Rishi: Maybe if they\u2019re born 50 years later.
[00:42:16] Joe: That\u2019s right. Just, just let inflation go. It is, it is a scary thing. I remember\u2026 No, that\u2019s an old guy story. We won\u2019t do that. All right. We\u2019ll avoid old guy stories. Let\u2019s talk about the next age group, which is age 14 to 18.
[00:42:31] Joe: Let\u2019s have the expert in this area go, go first. What does somebody your age need to absolutely know about money before they leave home?
[00:42:41] Rishi: I think that at this age, like, it\u2019s right before they go to college and they have to start managing their own money somewhat, or maybe they get a full-time job after high school.
[00:42:50] Rishi: So I think it\u2019s really about, uh, practicing kind of managing money on their own. Like, I think we were talking about earlier how middle school is practice for high school. I think high school is practice for life. So that\u2019s things like how to use credit cards to get the rewards but also not get sucked into debt, which is really easy to do.
[00:43:08] Rishi: Or how if someone has a summer job, then putting that into a Roth IRA and starting to get that compounding going, even if it\u2019s not a lot of money. And especially one thing that\u2019s really important, which, like, adults should be doing, is keeping a budget. So parents who have someone, a kid in high school, involving the kid in your household budget, like showing them how much you earn, what\u2019s going to different areas, maybe some changes that you\u2019ve made, like if you looked at your spending and you thought something has to go, and walking through that process.
[00:43:39] Rishi: And of course, talking about debt payments, investing, things like that. And so that way when the kid actually starts to earn their own money, then they\u2019re able to have a better understanding of budgeting, and just overall they\u2019ll have a good foundation. \u2018Cause this, this is, like, the last few years when parents will be able to do that.
[00:43:56] Joe: Rishi, you mentioned one of the hottest topics in teaching kids about money during my entire career, which is telling your child how much you earn. Karen, are you on board with that, teaching your high schooler or telling your high schooler how much you earn?
[00:44:11] Karen: I, I don\u2019t think the actual dollar amount is helpful because you just need too much context to make sense of that figure, you know?
[00:44:18] Karen: I mean, they, they hear a number and because they\u2019re not fully cognizant of all the expenses that are required to run a household, it can sound really outsized. I think it\u2019s very helpful for them to understand your overall situation, if you\u2019re happy with your situation, if you feel good with your situation, if you\u2019re still trying to improve it.
[00:44:38] Karen: A school guidance counselor told me a long time ago what kids really wanna know is, is everything gonna be okay? So for example, during COVID when people were losing their jobs, she said what they really need to hear is, \u201cThis is what\u2019s happened. Here\u2019s the change. But we\u2019re gonna be okay. Here\u2019s our plan to make sure that we\u2019re gonna be okay.\u201d
[00:44:56] Karen: Knowing the situation is totally appropriate and helpful. I don\u2019t think the dollar amount is
[00:45:03] Joe: You know, we began this conversation, Elena, by talking about making it entertaining, but there\u2019s one thing that Rishi also mentioned, which was debt, which is, I, I\u2019ve never found debt entertaining. How do you, how, how do you present the debt discussion in a way that keeps a kid\u2019s attention?
[00:45:20] Joe: Because to Rishi\u2019s point, they, they need to know about stepping in it.
[00:45:24] Alaina: Yeah, I think showing them real numbers. Um, Karen, I would agree, they don\u2019t necessarily need to know the exact dollar amount of income, but if there is some debt that your family has, maybe it\u2019s a car loan or maybe you\u2019ve considered, you know, taking a car loan or you can workshop that, have them run through those real numbers with you.
[00:45:42] Alaina: This would be the interest rate and this is how the interest rate is determined, and if we paid this much each month, it would take us, you know, however long to pay it off, and these would be the implications of it. To walk them through that if it\u2019s real debt or if it\u2019s imaginary debt, but let them see how it would impact their budget.
[00:45:59] Karen: You know, I\u2019m 60 years old, and the year that I was 14 my parents said that we weren\u2019t going to do anything on the March break because they were paying the mortgage off, and I still remember that like it was yesterday. Wow. And it, and it was\u2026 You know, they made it out like it was a real accomplishment, but this was the final trade-off that was required and, and, you know, we just totally took it in and we were like, \u201cMakes sense.
[00:46:22] Karen: Okay, we understood.\u201d But I still remember it.
[00:46:26] Joe: There\u2019s another thing, Rishi, that you brought up which was really important, which is this idea of investing, and here\u2019s another hot button. Do you teach high schoolers investing by buying individual stocks because kids are much more likely to see the comparison to the item and the company and get the real world scenario?
[00:46:47] Joe: Or do we begin with the way that the pros say to invest, which is let\u2019s get used to that boring index fund right away but then keep investing boring?
[00:46:59] Rishi: This actually, this connects a lot to my story with investing. I remember I started when I was seven, and at that time, like anyone who\u2019s young, like I wanted to make investing exciting.
[00:47:10] Rishi: So I wasn\u2019t investing in crypto or anything. It wasn\u2019t that bad. But I did start investing in individual stocks at that time \u2019cause like you were saying, I could recognize the company and I thought that would be a better choice than\u2026 Like, I also didn\u2019t know about index funds, but I just thought that was the right thing to invest in.
[00:47:26] Rishi: But then as I learned more, I realized that the index funds are, of course, a lot better, especially since I had so much time. And in, because of that, like around a year in, I switched to s- investing in index funds. And I\u2019m sure some of the stocks that I invested in back then have done better than the market, but they were still a bad decision, and especially I think considering how much time kids have to compound, just w- a bad choice of stock that ends up going bankrupt or just not doing too well has such an impact that even though it\u2019s boring, I think it\u2019s better for them to start with index funds.
[00:48:00] Joe: How do, how do you position this in Follow the Money, Elena?
[00:48:03] Alaina: The final chapter is actually all about investing, and that\u2019s for just a little bit of a younger crowd, and so it\u2019s more of a introduction to different types of investments and things that could happen in those investments. So we talk a little bit about risk, um, a little bit about market volatility, about how to avoid investment scams.
[00:48:22] Alaina: It gives kids an overview of how investing works and what they can get out of it.
[00:48:28] Joe: Karen, I\u2019m glad that Elena brought up scams. This is also a time when kids need to learn about scams. How do you teach kids about the fact that they go off to college or work or wherever they\u2019re going from home, there\u2019s a lot of people out there ready to take their money?
[00:48:43] Karen: Well, you know, everybody\u2019s looking for this silver bullet. Everybody wants to know, like, \u201cOkay, what\u2019s the secret?\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, are you ready for the secret? It\u2019s 10 words.\u201d Here\u2019s the secret: spend less than you make, first five words. Invest the difference, next three words. Be patient, the last two. If it feels too good to be true, it is.
[00:49:06] Karen: There is one way to build financial resilience. Super boring, works like a hot damn. Spend less than you make, invest the difference, be patient.
[00:49:15] Alaina: I think this is another opportunity to bring in just the real life. I don\u2019t know about you, but I get texts all the time offering different opportunities, right?
[00:49:23] Alaina: \u201cOh, call me for this investment.\u201d And you can just naturally show those to your kid, right? It doesn\u2019t have to be a sit-down, \u201cToday we\u2019re gonna learn about investment scams.\u201d \u201cOh, my gosh, look at this weird text that I got,\u201d and show it to them, talk through what are the red flags there, and see what they can identify.
[00:49:39] Joe: It was so funny. I\u2019m looking through my phone right now because I got one yesterday, Elena. I got one yesterday. Apple told me, by the way- Mm \u2026 that I have an unauthorized $621 and five cent charge on my account, and I have to, uh, contact them directly or open up this, you know, click the link.
[00:49:58] Alaina: And then sometimes it does happen, too.
[00:50:00] Alaina: I found $950 in fraud on my credit card this weekend that was spent on Amazon just over two days, and we didn\u2019t get contacted by our credit card company. We found it because we were- Ooh \u2026 you know, reviewing our expenses and categorizing them. But our credit card company was like, \u201cOh, you shop at Amazon all the time,\u201d so they didn\u2019t flag it, and it was surely not us.
[00:50:21] Joe: Th- that\u2019s interesting, the idea of, of the fact that they, they, that they don\u2019t tell you. Rishi, I\u2019m, I\u2019m curious \u2019cause you mentioned making a budget earlier. If you\u2019re tracking your expenses online, right, there\u2019s a way to\u2026 Y- you can see it happening maybe a day or two later. I don\u2019t know how, Elena, you found it, but maybe just tracking your money you found
[00:50:42] Alaina: it?
[00:50:42] Alaina: Just, yeah, the S- you know, the Sunday night review. We s- you know, sat down to kinda clean things up for the end of the week and went to reconcile against the Amazon account, and it did not reconcile.
[00:50:51] Joe: Not, not by a lot it sounds like. Rishi, are you using, uh, one of the popular apps out there? Are you using the bank app?
[00:50:59] Joe: Are you doing a budget on paper? How are you doing it?
[00:51:02] Rishi: Well, I don\u2019t have enough expenses or income to need a whole budget yet, but my parents do involve me w- in their budget, and they don\u2019t use any fancy app or anything. They just use a spreadsheet to keep track of it. But really, like, it doesn\u2019t matter how you do as long as you do actually keep the budget.
[00:51:17] Rishi: And, like, of course, it was less boring for me to go through it with them than if it were in an app, but I think it\u2019s, it still works.
[00:51:24] Joe: Yeah.
[00:51:24] Karen: It\u2019s interesting. We get a note, we get a message every time we spend over a certain dollar threshold. I guess it\u2019s a text from the credit card company. And often Mark and I will text each other and I\u2019ll say, \u201cDid you do whatever, whatever?\u201d
[00:51:36] Karen: Because, you know, we didn\u2019t discuss it and it comes up. And every once in a while both of us will be like, \u201cNo, we did not do that.\u201d And then you have to scratch beneath the surface, right? And find out what happened.
[00:51:47] Joe: That\u2019s what I love with apps. I like the spending thresholds in each- Hmm \u2026 of the budget categories.
[00:51:51] Joe: We have been literally sitting at dinner at a restaurant before, just gave the credit card to the waiter, and, and our phone dings that we went over our restaurant but, like you- Yeah \u2026 you know in real time that you made a mistake, which is awesome.
[00:52:06] Karen: What gets measured gets done.
[00:52:09] Joe: Before we move away from the age ranges and move into allowances and money conversations, I wanna ask this question.
[00:52:16] Joe: A lot of our stacker parents that I\u2019ve talked to over the past 15 years have told me that, you know, the reason they listen to Stacking Benjamins is because they\u2019re not perfect with money, and they sometimes feel like a charlatan teaching a kid about money when they\u2019re not great at money. Elena, what would you say to that if someone is thinking that that\u2019s listening to us today?
[00:52:38] Alaina: It\u2019s funny, I talked to some of my friends about this too. There are so many harder parts about parenting than explaining how money works. And it\u2019s okay if you don\u2019t know it all, right? You don\u2019t know everything about all the other things that you\u2019re teaching your child to do. I don\u2019t know how to teach, you know, a little kid to read.
[00:52:56] Alaina: I teach middle school, but I\u2019m practicing reading with my kid. Um, and I work with parents all the time who are saying, \u201cOh, well, I\u2019m not sure how to help them do their homework.\u201d But that doesn\u2019t mean you don\u2019t try. And it\u2019s okay to get it wrong. You guy- you can learn together, right? We have the entire internet at our fingertips, and there\u2019s a ton of resources, uh, if you\u2019re stuck, if you\u2019re not sure.
[00:53:15] Alaina: But it\u2019s just the trying, and feel comfortable, you know, making a mistake or two.
[00:53:20] Joe: I gotta imagine I\u2019m not the only one. Karen, you must hear this in your workshops.
[00:53:23] Karen: All the time, and my common refrain to parents is, \u201cDid you teach your kids to brush their teeth?\u201d And of course, everybody says yes, and I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, you\u2019re a dentist.\u201d
[00:53:30] Karen: And they\u2019re like, \u201cNo.\u201d And I\u2019m like- \u2026 \u201cOral surgeon?\u201d And they\u2019re like, \u201cNo.\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, you\u2019re an oral hygienist.\u201d And they\u2019re like, \u201cNo.\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cWait a minute. You gave your kids a twice-a-day habit and in a field in which you have no technical expertise.\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cWhy did you do that?\u201d And they\u2019re like, \u201d \u2018Cause it\u2019s good for them.\u201d
[00:53:46] Karen: I\u2019m like, \u201cBingo.\u201d You\u2026 Uh, not only dentists teach their kids to brush their teeth. You don\u2019t need any sort of technical expertise. When they\u2019re young, it\u2019s really largely behavioral. It\u2019s delaying gratification. It\u2019s planning ahead.
[00:54:00] Joe: Meeting your parents just briefly, Rishi, they seem so open. They must have shared mistakes that they made with you.
[00:54:07] Joe: They must have been pretty open about, \u201cYou know what? I didn\u2019t get it all right.\u201d
[00:54:11] Rishi: Yeah, definitely. And that\u2019s really important for like parents listening too. No one is perfect with money. Like, everyone makes mistakes. So like when you\u2019re talking to your kids about your decisions, then sharing the mistakes you made is really helpful, \u2019cause that\u2019s gonna show them that even if you\u2019re not perfect with money, you can still be successful, right?
[00:54:29] Rishi: And the expectation is not that you get everything right. As long as you learn from your mistakes, it\u2019s okay. My parents told me that like earlier they didn\u2019t know about the HSAs and the triple tax benefit. They just thought that it was for current medical expenses, not that you could use it for things like way in the future.
[00:54:45] Rishi: So they didn\u2019t invest as much as they should have for a while. And by telling me that, that made it a lot clearer to me the benefits of an HSA, and I\u2019m sure like once I have a job, I\u2019ll start contributing up to the limit immediately, right? \u2018Cause that\u2019s now so salient.
[00:55:01] Karen: That is a great example. Great.
[00:55:03] Joe: Karen, is there something that we don\u2019t need to be teaching our kids yet?
[00:55:09] Karen: Well, I, I don\u2019t think that the focus should be on, you know, the answers. I think the focus should be on what you do when you don\u2019t have the answer, when the answer isn\u2019t apparent, and that\u2019s a, you know, the risk of repeating myself, it\u2019s pause, gather information, reflect. It\u2019s don\u2019t act quickly, don\u2019t succumb to pressure.
[00:55:27] Karen: Anybody who\u2019s trying to pressure you does not have your best interest at heart. So I, I think it\u2019s just we, we want them to develop judgment, right? Because the information is at everybody\u2019s fingertips, but there\u2019s a big difference between getting information and making a decision that supports your long-term wellbeing, and that\u2019s the skill we want them to have.
[00:55:48] Joe: Elena, I got the feeling of what Karen\u2019s saying all the way through reading your book. Like, I felt like you weren\u2019t as interested in the answer as you are in just kind of bathing in the activity, Elena.
[00:56:00] Alaina: Yeah, absolutely. And that\u2019s the point of financial education for kids is to expose them to the concepts that they need to know and then help them feel confident learning more when they need to
[00:56:12] Joe: Let\u2019s finish this off with this allowance discussion, which man, uh, you know, we\u2019ve talked to so many allowance pros, and everybody has a different one.
[00:56:20] Joe: But Rhys, let\u2019s start with you. How does, how does your allowance work? How did it start? How would you tweak it if it were your allowance instead of your parents\u2019 allowance?
[00:56:29] Rishi: I started getting an allowance around when I was five, and then of course I started investing it when I was seven. But between that time I was, like, saving up and buying toys and stuff that I wanted at, at that age.
[00:56:40] Rishi: I don\u2019t remember exactly, but that\u2019s kind of how we\u2019ve been talking about how, like, kids should use an allowance. Like, I mean, if they want to, then sure, they can invest it, but it\u2019s really, like, more practical for them to spend it how they want. And one thing that my parents did with me then, and that I also think is important for parents now, and even me when I become a parent, is letting the kids make mistakes, of course, and also not trying to kind of fix the mistakes for them.
[00:57:06] Rishi: Like, I\u2019m sure as a parent, it\u2019s really easy to see that your kid wasted, like, $50 on something and then want to give them extra to make them feel better about it. Like, that\u2019s the natural reaction. That\u2019s gonna completely defeat the point, \u2019cause then it\u2019s just like you can give them unlimited money and then they keep on making mistakes.
[00:57:23] Rishi: Like, for them to actually learn the lessons, you can\u2019t just, like, bail them out of it. So whether that\u2019s, like, a younger kid buying a toy or an older one buying sneakers or, like, video game micro transactions like we were talking about, letting them have the consequences, even if it might be difficult to see them deal with that, that\u2019s really important.
[00:57:41] Rishi: It is something my parents did and also that\u2019s really helpful in general.
[00:57:45] Joe: Karen, parents are also go back and forth between, you know, you\u2019ve got a certain chore list, you\u2019ve got some things that you have to do, and you get an allowance and you know what? You just need money in your pocket and as a member of your family.
[00:57:59] Joe: Like, th- you know, the allowance isn\u2019t tied to chores, the allowance is tied to chores. You know- Where do you stand on that?
[00:58:04] Karen: The model that I like is a base amount, and when asked, I tell parents, \u201cAllowance is not free money. Allowance is preemptive practice money,\u201d because you can\u2019t learn how to manage money if you don\u2019t have any money to manage.
[00:58:16] Karen: And you want them to make a $20 mistake, not a $5,000 mistake, right? So they can only do that if they start young and early. But the model I like is if you do extra, you get extra allowance, because that\u2019s also real life, right? People who work harder at the office get promotions and earn more. So I like the idea of just this base amount of allowance, but if you\u2019re gonna rake, if you\u2019re gonna shovel the snow, if you\u2019re gonna help with the dishes, if you\u2019re gonna do laundry, then you can get a top-up.
[00:58:43] Karen: And so there\u2019s a natural incentive program there to work harder and make a bigger contribution. But I think they should get some, because otherwise, how do they get to practice?
[00:58:52] Joe: Karen, as an economist, I think you\u2019ll love, we had a woman on our show a few years ago. If I find it, I will link to it in the show notes.
[00:58:59] Joe: I didn\u2019t even know you were gonna talk about this. She had a book about lessons she learned from her dad, and her dad would post chores like you\u2019re talking about for the top-up, but then they would negotiate the rate with Dad, how much extra they would get with Dad. And initially, this lovely young woman and her sisters, they bid against each other.
[00:59:18] Joe: And then they realized that if they colluded against the enemy, they would make more money, which it turns out was one of the lessons Dad wanted them to learn, which blew me away. It was fabulous.
[00:59:30] Karen: Fantastic. It was great. It\u2019s- It\u2019s fantastic. Yeah. Kids are so resourceful. They\u2019re so resourceful.
[00:59:35] Joe: He wanted to teach them, \u201cIf we work together, we\u2019re gonna go far, far, far further.\u201d
[00:59:39] Joe: Elena, you said you\u2019re right in the middle of this right now. You know? You\u2019re, w- what are your thoughts? I\u2019m sure you\u2019re pulling in opinions from all over. How do you think you\u2019re gonna structure the allowance?
[00:59:50] Alaina: Yeah. Karen, I think you\u2019re, you were reading from my notes or I was reading from yours just now.
[00:59:53] Alaina: Mm-hmm. We are starting an allowance with our little kids. My husband and I actually argued a little bit over how to approach it. He was very much team the kids should have to do things to get the money. They need to work, right? We want to teach them the value of hard work. But I put my teacher hat on for a little bit and my thought was that kids don\u2019t follow directions all the time.
[01:00:14] Alaina: Even if they need to do the things, they don\u2019t always do them, and I didn\u2019t want to introduce a whole second power struggle. You know, you have to brush your teeth because you have to brush your teeth, and also, you have to brush your teeth so you get your allowance. It just didn\u2019t seem like it would be productive.
[01:00:30] Alaina: So the way we\u2019re looking at it right now is exactly as a teaching tool. You get a base rate per week, and then as we grow and our money scales a little bit, we\u2019re going to add kind of a daily list of requirements, things that you have to complete with the opportunity to get that money daily. It\u2019ll probably be paid over the week, but, you know, your Tuesday chores, your Wednesday chores, whatever.
[01:00:52] Alaina: And it\u2019s not for the whole week because kids make mistakes, right? We don\u2019t need, you know, a mistake on Monday to ruin the whole week.
[01:00:58] opener: Right.
[01:00:58] Alaina: And then also the opportunity to, to bid or to get paid for these bigger jobs, things that we might pay someone to do or things that we just don\u2019t have the time or the capacity to do where it would be genuinely helpful.
[01:01:11] Alaina: We\u2019ll see how it goes. These are behind me, actually. Those are my kids\u2019 little save and spend and give jars, and there\u2019s a fourth invest one that I had them color, but we put it away for right now because I just, I didn\u2019t think they were ready for the, the abstract concepts of investing for now.
[01:01:24] Joe: All right.
[01:01:25] Joe: One last question and then I wanna find out what all of you are up to in your daily life, what you\u2019re working on. Rishi, you mentioned at the top of the show swiping, your parents let you swipe the card. That is just a great lesson. It, uh, it just reminded me that we can turn our world into this science lab.
[01:01:43] Joe: Like, there are times when we get these lessons when we\u2019re out and about. What\u2019s a lesson for each of you that while you\u2019re doing something that you can involve your kids in that a lot of people don\u2019t that might teach them about money? Karen?
[01:01:58] Karen: Oh, I think like talking through the, talking through the purchases.
[01:02:01] Karen: I mean, you know, my, my family\u2019s all grown up, but they kind of affectionately chide me because I will often go shopping and come home empty-handed, and when they were younger, they would be like, \u201cWhat is the point of that?\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cThe point is, when I see the thing that, you know, hits the mark, hits all the features that I\u2019m looking for, I will be able to identify it in a nanosecond because I\u2019ve seen these 10 things that didn\u2019t have all the features I was looking for.\u201d
[01:02:24] Karen: So just openly musing as you\u2019re making a decision, it shows them that when you encourage them to pause, gather information, and reflect, that\u2019s not just a suggestion, it\u2019s actually how you live.
[01:02:35] Joe: I love that, especially with back to school shopping right now and doing that with your kids is huge. Uh, Rishi, how about you?
[01:02:42] Rishi: I think mine isn\u2019t as fun, but when you\u2019re, at least for high school students, when you\u2019re filing your taxes, just even if it\u2019s for just a few minutes, like bringing your kid in and talking to them about how this works, of course how taxes work, but also the actual software that you\u2019re using or if you\u2019re paying someone to do it.
[01:02:59] Rishi: \u2018Cause a lot of people, like the first experience that they have really with finance is filing their taxes for the first time, and if they have that experience with understanding how it worked for their parents and that it\u2019s not something that they should really be scared of, I think that\u2019s a good thing to have.
[01:03:15] Joe: It\u2019s funny, Rishi, when I was a financial planner, I had a client that gave his kids his allowance, and in front of them he would take money back out of it to show the tax bite, and they would and they would then as a family do something special with that for fun. But he wanted them to think that taxes sucked.
[01:03:32] Joe: That was his that was his whole goal was to teach them to look for tax efficiency. So I love that you brought taxes into it. Elena, you\u2019ve got the last one.
[01:03:40] Alaina: Yeah. So, and the teacher in me thinks about, I mean, everything is a learning opportunity, right? And a lot of that is just narrating your internal thought process as the parent and how it relates, you know, to your financial decision-making.
[01:03:51] Alaina: Um, but one that I think is overlooked is explaining financial goals to your kids. Mm-hmm. So whether it\u2019s a savings goal or a debt payoff goal. Um, in our house we worked for a really long time to pay off student loan debt, and now we\u2019re working to save for a down payment on a bigger home, and we talk to our kids about that, right?
[01:04:07] Alaina: We involve them in thinking about the kinda house that we would like to get, and that means that it\u2019s gonna cost more money or it\u2019s gonna cost less money, and the timeline of that, right? But just involving them in those goals and being aware, you know, that you have to work for some things I think is something that\u2019s overlooked.
[01:04:23] Joe: That\u2019s wonderful. Not just the kids\u2019 goals, but the family\u2019s goals. Yeah. How we begin with the end in mind. Yeah, that\u2019s fantastic and a great place for us to leave this fabulous discussion, although I\u2019ve got notes for another, for like a 50-part series. So maybe we\u2019ll pick it up again later. Mm-hmm. Let\u2019s talk about what each of you brilliant people are doing now.
[01:04:41] Joe: Elena, I know you\u2019re getting ready for school, but at the same time you\u2019ve got this new book out. So where can people find it?
[01:04:50] Alaina: Yeah. Um, it\u2019s available, you know, at all the major retailers and at your local bookstore. I also have a platform called Let\u2019s Make It Grow. Um, so you can find that on Instagram or at letsmakeitgrow.com, where I am supporting parents in teaching finances to their kids.
[01:05:06] Alaina: Uh, so if it\u2019s those big, scary concepts, how do we break them down to be a little more straightforward, and how do we integrate that throughout our life?
[01:05:13] Joe: That is super, and we\u2019ll link to Let\u2019s Make It Grow on our show notes page at stackingbenjamins.com, as we will the book. Which is interesting, because, okay, you quoted my letter saying, \u201cThis book doesn\u2019t suck,\u201d but it\u2019s, but it is way better than that.
[01:05:28] Joe: Not only did, did I get excited when you let me look through it early, convincing a major publisher like, uh, Penguin Random House, I believe, convincing a major publisher that this is something the world needs to see, I know from my own experience, that\u2019s a hard thing to do. And in a book about children and literacy, financial literacy, that, that\u2019s just a, it\u2019s a high bar.
[01:05:51] Joe: So congratulations on bringing that to life. And it sounds like it was a lot of fun making it.
[01:05:56] Alaina: It was really fun. I mean, it was a lot of work. Um, the thing I underestimated was the editing process. I am a middle school teacher. I taught writing for a long time. I just had no idea how long editing and revising would take me.
[01:06:08] Alaina: I was cleaning this weekend, and just stacks of printouts of my notes. Mm. But it was fun. It was hard work, and it\u2019s so cool. I have\u2026 It\u2019s so cool to see it, like, now in print. And to hear people\u2019s feedback. Parents have been really excited, uh, and so that\u2019s really nice to see.
[01:06:22] Joe: I absolutely love not just the money lessons, but the activities.
[01:06:26] Joe: It\u2019s really amazing. We\u2019ll link to it, like I mentioned in the show notes. Karen Holland, you and I have been chatting back and forth the last several months. And ma\u2019am, when we last talked in either the end of last year or beginning of this year, I think we last chatted in person, since then you\u2019ve had a ton going on at Gifting Sense.
[01:06:44] Joe: Tell everybody what\u2019s happening now.
[01:06:47] Karen: I, you know, I think we\u2019ve just really embraced our theory of change, which is that mindful spending is a terrific foundation for financial literacy. You know, kids land in high school and they\u2019re grounded in math and language arts and science. That\u2019s why a teacher can pick up a novel or start with algebra or kids know the scientific process, and we\u2019d like to see them land in high school with some grounding in personal finance.
[01:07:10] Karen: So we\u2019ve built something we call Spending Ed, which we liken to driver\u2019s ed for money, and it\u2019s a graduated licensing program, and kids work their way through via quizzes and pledges to practice mindful spending. And the idea is that when they land in high school, they are really enthusiastically embracing all the amazing high school content that already exists.
[01:07:34] Karen: You know, we have state mandates guaranteeing students at least a half a semester of high school personal finance education, but mandates in some ways only guarantee that students will be in the seats. We want the students in those seats really leaning forward and excited about what they\u2019re learning.
[01:07:51] Karen: And so we believe at the Gifting Sense project that means they need to understand that financial tools have operational reality in their life, that they\u2019re for everyone, and that you can use them to build the future that you want. So we\u2019ve done that, and early returns are great.
[01:08:06] Joe: That\u2019s incredible. And just to see the strides and the exciting results from Gifting Sense is so cool, and people can find out more at giftingsense.org.
[01:08:18] Joe: Rishi, your fans are all wondering, it\u2019s senior year, it\u2019s a time of big change. Some of them, I\u2019m sure, are shaking, like, \u201cAre the videos gonna go away? What\u2019s gonna happen with Easy Peasy Finance?\u201d
[01:08:30] Rishi: And don\u2019t worry. Uh, I\u2019ve been keeping up the one video per week for now, like, almost eight and a half years, so I don\u2019t foresee that ending anytime soon.
[01:08:39] Rishi: I also have written a series of books, and so far that\u2019s covered money, investing and banking, and over the summer I\u2019ve been working on the next one, which released on August 12th, and that\u2019s Easy Peasy Stocks, which you can find- Fabulous \u2026 on Amazon. And thanks. So that- that\u2019s for middle and high schoolers, and it covers things like stock indexes, market cap, growth and value investing, and fundamental or technical analysis.
[01:09:01] Rishi: My YouTube channel is Easy Peasy Finance, where I\u2019ll keep up the weekly uploads, and just the videos that are for, uh, mostly kids and beginners of all ages. But those cover different concepts on finance, and the more recent ones are more about strategies or recent developments. So things like, now just a few weeks ago, Trump accounts.
[01:09:22] Rishi: Things like maximizing your 401K employer match and not getting manipulated by buy now, pay later.
[01:09:29] Joe: Uh, buy now, pay later. Oh, my goodness, that just drives me, drives me so crazy. Me
[01:09:34] Karen: too.
[01:09:35] Joe: It is almost as much now as the ubiquitousness of, uh, college kids and betting, you know? And being able to bet on everything, the weather, the whatever you want.
[01:09:45] Joe: Betting on how long this episode\u2019s gonna go. So all the above, man. Rishi, congratulations on all your success, and, uh, we will link to E- Easy Peasy Finance and the books on our show notes page at stackingbenjamins.com. All right, Doug, you got it from here, my friend. What should we have learned on today\u2019s episode?
[01:10:03] Doug: So what\u2019s stacked up on our to-do list for today? First, take some advice from our team today. Don\u2019t lecture kids, make it entertaining. Instead of harping about, \u201cMoney doesn\u2019t grow on trees,\u201d or, \u201cClose that door. Were you born in a barn?\u201d Show them where the money does grow and maybe have fun lowering utility bills.
[01:10:23] Doug: Those lessons are far more fun, and kids will remember them for a lifetime. Second, I also love this advice. Don\u2019t be afraid to teach kids because you aren\u2019t great with money. Karen hit the nail on the head. You don\u2019t have to be a dentist to learn to brush your teeth. But the big lesson, I get the whole allowance, planning thing, but if Joe\u2019s mom asks you for an allowance, she calls it rent for some strange reason, but, uh, same difference, right?
[01:10:52] Doug: Just laugh and compliment her for the joke. She won\u2019t take that well either, but you know, at least you\u2019ll have a plausible deniability later. Thanks to Alana Trevax for joining us today. You\u2019ll find her new hit book for kids, Follow the Money, wherever books are sold. You\u2019ll also see Joe\u2019s blurb in the book, and it says something much kinder than, \u201cThis book doesn\u2019t suck.\u201d
[01:11:15] Doug: Come on, Joe, find a filter. We\u2019ll also include links in our show notes at stackingbenjamins.com. Note to self: don\u2019t have Joe blurb my new book. Thanks to Rishi Vamdat for hanging out with us today. You\u2019ll find his books and links to his videos at easypeasyfinance.com or at his Easy Peasy Finance
[01:11:37] Doug: YouTube channel. Subscribe and have fun with the kids. Thanks also to the incredible Karen Holland for joining us today. Looking for a great way to put your kids in charge of their financial decisions? Check out her nonprofit website, giftingsense.org. This show is the property of SP Podcast LLC copyright 2026 and is created by Joe Saul-Sehy.
[01:12:01] Doug: You\u2019ll find out about our awesome team at stackingbenjamins.com, along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. And oh yeah, before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don\u2019t take advice from people you don\u2019t know.
[01:12:19] Doug: This show is for entertainment purposes only. Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I\u2019m Joe\u2019s mom\u2019s neighbor, Doug, and we\u2019ll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamins show.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Every parent eventually asks the same question: what does my kid actually need to know about money, and…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":591412,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[14],"tags":[114,268,85,46,266,267],"class_list":["post-591411","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-personal-finance","tag-business","tag-finance","tag-il","tag-israel","tag-personal-finance","tag-personalfinance"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/591411","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=591411"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/591411\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/591412"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=591411"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=591411"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=591411"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
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<\/a>Our Topic: Teaching Kids About Money<\/p>\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/il\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/08\/Karen-Holland.webp\")
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