Defence Minister Judith Collins.
Photo: Supplied
Defence Minister Judith Collins has criticised two former prime ministers for attending a Chinese military celebration, which also hosted leaders from North Korea, Iran and Russia.
At the same time Sir John Key and Helen Clark were in Beijing, Collins was on a top-secret trip to Ukraine, which has been fighting off a Russian invasion – with Chinese and North Korean support – for three-and-a-half years.
Collins and Chief of the Defence Force (NZDF) Tony Davies visited Kyiv. They met with her Ukrainian counterpart Denys Shmyhal, Foreign Minister Andrii Sybiha, the Office of the President and Deputy Minister of Defense Oleksandr Kozenko.
Shmyhal later posted on X (formerly Twitter) they “discussed priorities of our bilateral cooperation, including possible collaboration in naval drone production, perspectives of a bilateral security agreement, humanitarian projects, and NZ’s role in the ‘Coalition of the Willing’.”
Glad to welcome New Zealand’s Defence Minister @JudithCollinsMP and @CDF_NZ Air Marshal Tony Davies in Kyiv.
We discussed priorities of our bilateral cooperation, including possible collaboration in naval drone production, perspectives of a bilateral security agreement,… pic.twitter.com/CZ1j1Hlm2c
— Denys Shmyhal (@Denys_Shmyhal) September 4, 2025
Collins – now in the UK – told Morning Report on Friday New Zealand was “Ukraine was fully aware of how important their struggle is for the rest of Europe – and actually for the Indo-Pacific region as well”, with China exerting a growing influence in the Pacific.
“We have a drone industry in New Zealand. It’s quite small, but it’s quite effective as well. But the Ukrainians are now, I would think, the world leaders in drone technology and uncrewed vehicles.
“And so what we could do is we could look at the lessons that they’ve learned, given that they are having to change their technologies every six to eight weeks as conditions change and as the Russians move to counter it. They have an enormous capability, the Ukrainians, to produce more, but also for us to learn from them.
“So, you know, obviously, we have people teaching and training Ukrainians right now, but we have things that we could learn from them about real warfare and also use of drones and other mechanisms.”
The so-called ‘Coalition of the Willing’ does not yet include New Zealand.
“The prime minister has been very clear that any decision on what our participation would be, if it is to be, will be a matter for Cabinet, and has not been decided yet,” Collins said.
“I’m not aware of that changing since, a few days ago. I certainly know that the prime minister is very keen to make sure that we are aware of what’s happening and also the opportunities for New Zealand to contribute, if possible.”
She said support from countries that follow the “rules-based order” was important to Ukraine – particularly in light of the display of force on show in Beijing.
“What is clear is that there is a massive affront and push-back on a rules-based order, which means that countries like ours, you know, small nations that are good-willed citizens, we are the ones who benefit from the rules-based order.
“So large countries, powerful countries decided that it’s not for them and they’ll just do what they like. It’s smaller countries like that suffer the most, and Ukraine is clearly one of those countries which is suffering because (Russian President Vladimir) Putin’s decided the rules-based order doesn’t [apply] to him.”
Meeting with Ukrainian Minister of Defence Denys Shmyhal.
Photo: Supplied
Collins said neither she nor Prime Minister Christopher Luxon would have accepted an invitation to attend the celebrations, held to mark the 80th anniversary of the defeat of Japan in World War II.
Clark was prime minister when New Zealand signed the landmark 2008 free trade deal with China, and Sir John has been staunchly in favour of expanding trade with the superpower in his post-politics years.
But Collins questioned why they were at a military parade also attended by Putin and Kim Jong-Un.
“If they thought that they were there to promote and to talk about trading opportunities from 2008, it’s all a bit late, really. And what we saw was the enormous military parade and massive show of power and strength.
“Look, the next time Helen Clark criticises me for getting a bit of extra money for our defense force, I think I’m going to tell her exactly where she can put her thoughts.”
As for progress on a ceasefire in Ukraine, Collins said the “Ukrainians are the gutsiest people I’ve ever come across” and “are also very aware that they need to come to the party, which they are absolutely willing to do, but they cannot simply appease”.
“We saw what happened when the world decided that Crimea didn’t matter – all it did is embolden Putin. So appeasement, I would say, doesn’t actually work any better for tyrants as it does for two-year-olds. You give them a little bit and they just keep on going.
“But Ukraine is fully aware that they want a ceasefire, they want to be able to end this war, and you know, they care about their people – they don’t want to see their people slaughtered.”
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