\u201cThere are a lot of things about Parliament in these first couple of years that I\u2019ve come to really appreciate and enjoy, but there\u2019s also a number of things that really frustrate me,\u201d he told Cowan.<\/p>\n
\u201cSome of those things I look at and go, this just doesn\u2019t have to be this way; it\u2019s only this way because everyone chooses to continue to make it that way … Parliament makes its own rules, literally \u2013 it not only makes the laws for everyone else, it makes its own rules \u2013 so we could choose to change things.\u201d<\/p>\n
Fleming, who is the MP for Auckland electorate Maungakiekie, said the \u201cenlightened Parliament\u201d that put standing order 288 into place seven years ago would never have imagined it would take so long for it to be invoked.<\/p>\n
But now that it has, Fleming is hopeful it might be used a lot more often. And he told Real Life he\u2019s got his eye on adjusting another part of the legislative process, too: the Committee of the Whole House.<\/p>\n
This is the stage at which all MPs get an opportunity to debate a proposed law change clause by clause in Parliament. It allows members who weren\u2019t part of the select committee the opportunity to put their ideas forward.<\/p>\n
But Fleming believes it\u2019s not functioning to the best of its collaborative potential.<\/p>\n
\u201cI remember sitting [in the Committee stage] early on as an MP and listening to Arena Williams, another Labour MP friend of mine, put up an idea around a particular piece of legislation that my Government was passing,\u201d he recalled to Cowan.<\/p>\n
\u201cAnd I remember thinking, \u2018That\u2019s actually quite good. Gosh, I wonder if we can incorporate that amendment\u2019.<\/p>\n
\u201cBut there was no serious consideration of her amendment because \u2026 that part of the legislative process is viewed by the Government as an obstacle that we need to get through in order to get the bill passed into law.<\/p>\n
\u201cAnd by the Opposition, it\u2019s just viewed as an opportunity to filibuster and slow the Government down.\u201d<\/p>\n
Fleming\u2019s quest for greater collaboration isn\u2019t just limited to the corridors of Parliament.<\/p>\n
A te reo M\u0101ori speaker, he is also deeply invested in the reconciliation of M\u0101ori and P\u0101keh\u0101; in his maiden speech two years ago he spoke of his dream that New Zealand\u2019s bicentenary in 2040 would be characterised not by \u201ctears of lament, but tears of joy\u201d.<\/p>\n
Having attended the Waitangi service last week, Fleming told Real Life there\u2019s a disconnect between the anger we see on TV and the reality at backroom hui, and that he\u2019s \u201cgenuinely increasingly hopeful that we\u2019re making progress for the country\u201d.<\/p>\n
\u201cThe meeting this year between Government ministers and iwi chairs was so constructive. I\u2019ve not seen our ministers that excited in a long time \u2013 just a sense of like, \u2018wow, we, we really are moving here\u2019,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n
\u201cAnother one for me is the increasing prevalence of and confidence in te reo M\u0101ori. Something as simple as sitting in some of the p\u014dwhiri and realising how many people on both sides of the marae don\u2019t need translators. Just the whole wairua, the whole spirit of the place.<\/p>\n
\u201cWe\u2019re 14 years away now from celebrating the 200th anniversary, and there are thousands of people who are asking the question deeply and honestly and constructively: what are we going to be celebrating there, and what is it we need to do now?\u201d<\/p>\n
Fleming says by the 200-year anniversary of New Zealand, he hopes iwi and hap\u016b have genuine tino rangatiratanga \u2013 that they \u201cwould have the resources and the wherewithal to be actually looking after themselves\u201d.<\/p>\n
\u201cI\u2019ve listened 100 times to Bishop Vercoe\u2019s address at the 150th anniversary in 1990. In that, he\u2019s lamenting where we as a country are not, but at the same time he\u2019s so hopeful about what is still possible \u2013 and he ends with the words \u2018but let us sit and listen to one another\u2019.<\/p>\n
\u201cAnd in the last week I\u2019ve seen the genuine listening, people actually hearing each other in between all the yelling.\u201d<\/p>\n
Fleming says he hopes in 14 years that the treaty settlement process might be complete, enabling us to \u201clook forward\u201d as a nation.<\/p>\n
\u201cWe\u2019re never forgetting our past. Obviously, we\u2019re entirely informed by our past and always should be\u2026[but] politically, economically, it\u2019s really important that we complete the settlement process so that the national conversations we\u2019re having are about how we\u2019re building together, not about how we\u2019re continuing to address the things of the past.<\/p>\n
\u201cI do think at the moment, too much of a national conversation is backward-focused \u2026 we are in this in-between phase at the moment, and I genuinely believe over the next six to seven years, we\u2019re going to take a significant step to being forward-focused.\u201d<\/p>\n
Real Life is a weekly interview show where John Cowan speaks with prominent guests about their life, upbringing, and the way they see the world. Tune in Sundays from 7.30pm on Newstalk ZB or listen to the latest full interview here<\/a>.<\/p>\n