\n\t\u201cYou know, I was terrified,\u201d she says of closing this chapter. \u201cThere was an opportunity to take a buyout about a year and a half, two years ago, and a number of people who were close to retirement age took advantage of the opportunity, but I wasn\u2019t ready.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n
\n\tThat changed this past summer, when she told her boss, Lionsgate CEO Jon Feltheimer, that she\u2019d be signing off at the end of her contract. It was the right time, she reasoned, and she could feel good about what she was leaving behind. The studio is responsible for current breakouts like Seth Rogen\u2019s Emmy winner The Studio as well as The Hunting Wives, Ghosts and The Rookie, which follow past hits like Mad Men, Weeds and Orange Is the New Black.\u00a0<\/p>\n
\n\tAs her last day looms, the studio\u2019s highest-ranking female sat for a wide-ranging exit interview with The Hollywood Reporter.<\/p>\n
\t\t\t\t\t\t![\"\"](\"https:\/\/www.hollywoodreporter.com\/wp-content\/themes\/vip\/pmc-hollywoodreporter-2021\/assets\/public\/lazyload-fallback.gif\")
<\/p>\n
\t\t\t\t\tLionsgate TV Group execs Stern and Kevin Beggs flank Oprah Winfrey at the premiere of OWN\u2019s Greenleaf in 2016.<\/p>\n
\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tAngela Weiss\/Getty Images<\/p>\n
\n\tSince this decision was made, I suspect you\u2019ve been in reflection mode. Which memories have come flooding back?<\/p>\n
\n\tI\u2019ll tell you, I remember going to a pre-Emmy party for Orange Is the New Black at Ted Sarandos\u2019 house, and it was just us and the cast, and everybody, including Ted, was dancing. Ted\u2019s a great dancer, by the way.<\/p>\n
\n\tI\u2019ve seen him in action.<\/p>\n
\n\tHe loves to party, and at the time, I thought, how much fun is this for all of us to be in this situation? But also, here\u2019s somebody who loves TV. He loves it. He loves everything about it, and he\u2019s having fun with it. And that\u2019s how I always felt about the TV business, which was a real community. And somehow, as much as TV got bigger, it was still a small business. It was still a personal business. A business where everybody gets up with Ted in the middle and dances.<\/p>\n
\n\tYou talk to people around town today and the consensus seems to be that the business is not as fun as it once was.<\/p>\n
\n\tWell, it\u2019s not fun. Or it\u2019s not as much fun. But this [story came] full circle. I went to the Netflix party for the Golden Globes this year. I didn\u2019t know anybody in the room, which never used to happen. All these years, we knew everybody. But our cast from Hunting Wives happened to be at the party, and there was Ted talking to them and taking selfies. And as huge as that party was and as huge as [his business is], he still loves television and loves the talent. And I did think a bit cynically because Ted is not as old as I am, but he\u2019s still of a generation who recognized that this is entertainment. If you\u2019re not having fun, don\u2019t do it.<\/p>\n
\n\tSo how do you instill that ethos in the next generation?\u00a0<\/p>\n
\n\tWell, the business is harder, no doubt about it. I started with Jon Feltheimer in 1986 at a company called New World, and at the time, you\u2019d go to MIPCOM and New World would do a big party every year off-site at midnight. We didn\u2019t have a lot of money. I mean, Lionsgate is wealthy by comparison. And this was really early in my career, and I remember asking Jim McNamara, who ran our distribution, \u201cWhy do we do this party?\u201d He said to me, \u201cBecause nobody ever walked into our booth to look at our [show] posters. People walk in to see if they could get an invitation to our party or they come back the next day to tell us how great the party was. And once we get them in, we can sell them something.\u201d There was just a much, much greater sense of doing business in a sort of social, organic, relationship kind of way. You feel differently about somebody you\u2019re making a deal with if you were drinking champagne and dancing with them at 3 o\u2019clock in the morning the night before. But [as a business], we stopped having fun.\u00a0<\/p>\n
\n\tThe business became more transactional.<\/p>\n
\n\tYes. A part of it is just that the business has grown up and matured and become more of a business. And partly, it\u2019s that the business is hard today.<\/p>\n
\n\tMany would argue that you are exiting at the right time.<\/p>\n
\n\tI am. (Laughs.)<\/p>\n
\n\tI assume you heard a lot of that when news of your retirement broke?<\/p>\n
\n\tYes. Also, I had a really interesting lunch the other day with Ken Ziffren, who\u2019s sort of like my rabbi.<\/p>\n
\n\tI think he\u2019s a lot of people\u2019s rabbi.<\/p>\n
\n\tHe is, but he\u2019s also my boss because I teach at UCLA Law School in the Ziffren Center. So, we were having lunch, and it\u2019s a treat whenever I can have lunch with Ken, and he said to me, \u201cThe business is at an inflection point right now. The business that we had when it was a broadcast business and a linear business, we\u2019ve tried to glom onto streaming and it doesn\u2019t work. So, we need to come up with something new.\u201d Then he said, \u201cAnd I don\u2019t know anybody except for you who can do it.\u201d And I said, \u201cIn that case, I\u2019m leaving at the right time because I do not want to.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tThat does not sound fun.<\/p>\n
\n\tIt actually does sound fun to me. I like creating new business models. But I don\u2019t want to do it. (Laughs.)<\/p>\n
\n\tFair enough.<\/p>\n
\n\tBut I really have enjoyed the TV business. And so many people here are of a different generation \u2014 they\u2019re young and smart, but they didn\u2019t grow up in a business that was joyful. Right now, they\u2019re looking at a business where it\u2019s very hard to get shows on the air, and it\u2019s very hard to make money off those shows. It\u2019s a struggle, and what I\u2019ve really tried to do was instill the joy that this business was for us.<\/p>\n
\n\tHow do you do that?<\/p>\n
\n\tFor one, I make them go out to lunch with people. I\u2019ll tell you a story, something that happened maybe six weeks ago. We were trying to get The Rookie spinoff ordered [to pilot] at ABC, and we were on the 1-yard line and could not get it ordered. Everyone here was lobbying Simran [Sethi, who oversees scripted programming at ABC and Hulu]. And then I called Craig Erwich [who runs the whole TV group] and I said, \u201cWhat are you doing tomorrow? Are you going to be in the office?\u201d He said, \u201cYes.\u201d I said, \u201cGreat, I\u2019ll be over at noon.\u201d I picked up bagels and I drove over there and I walked in and he looked at me and he said, \u201cWhere\u2019s the lox?\u201d I said, \u201cFor a series order, you get lox. For a pilot, you get bagels.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tAmazing.<\/p>\n
\n\tWe sat and we had bagels, and within two minutes, we had the order. But he said something to me that was really apt and I brought it back to the team. He said, \u201cPeople don\u2019t do this anymore. This is how we grew up, this is how we handled relationships.\u201d He said, \u201cYou\u2019re in Santa Monica, you\u2019re vice chairman of a company, Disney is out in the middle of nowhere, the fact that you make an effort is meaningful.\u201d<\/p>\n
\n\tYou sat down and talked through the issues, versus having your business affairs execs shooting emails back and forth?<\/p>\n
\n\tExactly. It was, \u201cWhat\u2019s the hesitation? Is there an issue that I can solve for you?\u201d You have a two-minute conversation and it\u2019s generally pretty easy. But people don\u2019t talk.<\/p>\n
\n\tWhen you look back at all of the deals that you\u2019ve done, which stand out as the hardest or wildest?<\/p>\n
\n\tThe most fun for me that was maybe the hardest and maybe the easiest was Mad Men<\/a>.<\/p>\n \n\tWhy?<\/p>\n \n\tYears before, I did a series with Darren Star for Fox called The Street. It was about Wall Street and sexism and men behaving badly and it didn\u2019t work. It was a great series. It was written well. The casting was fantastic. People just didn\u2019t show up. And as you always do, you try to do a postmortem \u2014 what might we have done differently? And the thinking was, it\u2019s a world that most people are not familiar with, Wall Street, and nobody wanted people behaving so badly in their living room every week. That was our thought. So, when I first read the Mad Men script, I thought, \u201cThis is so brilliantly written, but it was men behaving badly and it was Madison Avenue. It was shades of The Street, so I\u2019m not going to do it.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tSo, what changed?<\/p>\n \n\tI was in my house one Saturday, in the days when we had DVDs, and I got a call from two agents at ICM. I went way back with these guys, and they said, \u201cYou\u2019re home, we\u2019re coming over.\u201d And they brought me the DVD of the pilot. AMC had made it but did not want to be producing a series, so they were looking for a partner. I watched it and I said, \u201cI cannot live without this series.\u201d I flew to New York the next day, a Sunday, and had drinks with [creator] Matt Weiner at the King Cole Bar at the St. Regis. He had whiskey and a milk or maybe it was scotch and a side of milk. Anyway, I fell in love with Matt. I blew off a dinner that I had with somebody else. The next day, I sat with AMC and then I went to their lawyers, bought the series, and then I called [my boss] Jon and I said, \u201cI think I did something really, really good, but if it\u2019s not good, please don\u2019t fire me.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tIt worked out well, clearly, though there were other deal hiccups <\/a>along the way\u2026\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tOh yes. But to this day, I\u2019m still friendly with Matt, deal hiccups not-withstanding, personality quirks notwithstanding\u2026<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t \t\t\t\t\tStern, with the cast as well as creator Matthew Weiner and others execs, at the \u201cMad Men\u201d premiere.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tCourtesy of Subject<\/p>\n \n\tAt one point, the show almost went away<\/a>, no?<\/p>\n \n\tThis was a fun moment. (Laughs.) Our option at AMC was coming up and they either had to negotiate the deal or lose it. And we had another year on Matt\u2019s [contract], but they were going to have to pick up two years on the series and they couldn\u2019t figure out what to do. They did not have a business person at AMC at the time, so they hired an outside attorney to handle the deal. He was used to representing major talent, which means he was used to having a lot of leverage. That was probably not the best way to approach Matt, and Matt got furious.<\/p>\n \n\tOh, I recall that part<\/a>.<\/p>\n \n\tOne day, I\u2019m getting dressed for work and I get a call from CAA and Jeanne Newman, who represented Matt, saying, \u201cWe\u2019re at CAA, you have to come over here and sort this out.\u201d At 2 o\u2019clock in the morning, we closed the deal, and it was great. But during that time, I had an idea. I had made a deal with Ted, which is how I got to know him, to license the SVOD [rights to Mad Men] to him at a time when Netflix did not have originals, and we had a very good experience. So, I said to Ted, \u201cMy deal with AMC is coming up, and I don\u2019t know if we will be able to make a new deal. You should throw your hat in the ring.\u201d He said, \u201cWe don\u2019t do originals.\u201d That was in January. Four months later, he called and said, \u201cAnd now maybe we will. What have you got?\u201d We went in four days later with Orange Is the New Black. Jenji Kohan had just asked us to option the book for her. We didn\u2019t even have a pitch. I gave the book to Cindy [Holland], who reads, and I said, \u201cRead this over the weekend. Call me Monday.\u201d She did, and you know the rest.<\/p>\n \n\tYou just said that Cindy Holland reads. Is the implication that others don\u2019t?<\/p>\n \n\tOh, no, no. It was that our team will typically spend months working on a pitch because most development executives will tell you that that is the best way to sell a show. Sometimes it\u2019s a good spec script. But you need to shape the TV show, right? We don\u2019t generally go into a buyer with a book and say, \u201cYou imagine what the show is going to look like.\u201d But at that point, Cindy was very new in development, and she was used to reading books.<\/p>\n \n\tI remember doing a piece early on in Orange\u2019s run about how talent reps were using things like Halloween costumes as proof of the show\u2019s popularity in their negotiations with Netflix. They didn\u2019t have ratings to use as leverage\u2026<\/p>\n \n\tOh, we had no idea [how many people were watching.] But I\u2019m a pretty pragmatic person and so I just assumed, with Netflix, if it wasn\u2019t doing well, they wouldn\u2019t keep it on the air. And then the longer it stays on, the more leverage you have. And those were really early days. There was no notion that maybe longevity is less necessary for a streamer than for a broadcaster. But that Orange Is The New Black experience was a fun one because it was so early that Netflix was just really Ted and Cindy, so Cindy and I worked out the model, and it was such early days that I remember her speculating, \u201cWell, we don\u2019t know how we\u2019re going to air these. Maybe we\u2019ll do two a week.\u201d They were still trying to figure it out. And our original deal with Netflix was just for the U.S. and Canada. Pretty quickly after, they went global, but they would call me every few weeks, \u201cWe\u2019re thinking about the U.K. now. Could you sell me the U.K.?\u201d Or I remember we were talking to a French network and Cindy called and said, \u201cNo, no, no, we have to have France.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tAnd just like that, your international distribution business vanished. Did it concern you at the time?\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tYou know what? It was taking money out of our distribution team\u2019s pocket, but they were paying so much upfront. Orange Is the New Black was really good for Lionsgate. And Jenji, as the creator\/showrunner, saw a huge backend. In those days, if you had a hit, it was a huge backend. Today, we\u2019re looking at [something different].<\/p>\n \n\tFrom where you sit, what\u2019s the most and least appealing place to sell a show now?<\/p>\n \n\tThe best place to sell a show is the place that is going to support it, where it\u2019s going to get an audience and where it can stay on the air. I learned this lesson very early on. I did this show with Jay Mohr when I was at Sony. We developed it for a very early HBO, not with Jay. We developed it with Oliver Platt, actually. And it was an HBO show, but the HBO business model was really terrible \u2014 so terrible, at that time, that when I made that deal with Michael Lombardo, who was in business affairs at the time, he said, \u201cWe\u2019ll develop it and if the business model doesn\u2019t work for you, you can take the show [elsewhere].\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tWow.<\/p>\n \n\tIt was very early days. And then Fox knocked on the door at a time when broadcast was the [pre-eminent] model, so we moved the show from HBO to Fox. And we put Jay Mohr in because he was more of a Fox actor than Oliver was. The show was hilarious but it did not work on Fox because it was an HBO show. This had to have been 35 years ago, but I keep [this plaque from Jay Mohr] on my desk as a constant reminder that the best place for a show is the right place and the money should not factor into it.<\/p>\n \n\tPresumably, in success, the money will follow.<\/p>\n \n\tThat\u2019s exactly right. But I always look at, where\u2019s it going to get on the air? Where is it going to stay on the air? Where\u2019s it going to get an audience? And then what\u2019s the deal? My job is about deals but the best deal at the wrong network is not good.<\/p>\n \n\tWhen you started out in this business, you were the only female lawyer at your law firm. And if I\u2019m not mistaken, you\u2019d hear a lot of, \u201cCan you get my coffee?\u201d When did that shift?<\/p>\n \n\tYou know, that\u2019s a good question because I was conscious of it at the time but it was also just the reality, so I didn\u2019t pay so much attention to it. I put my head down, I did my work and I did notice that I was not invited\u2026<\/p>\n \n\tTo the golf clubs\u2026<\/p>\n \n\tTo any of it, and I\u2019m still not. But I never let that define me. You hear women say all the time, \u201cI had to work harder.\u201d I don\u2019t think they had to work harder. I think they got where they got because they work hard and they were just good and therefore succeeded. It may have felt like they were working harder, but I don\u2019t think I would have worked any differently in an organization with women. I might have gotten invited to more things!<\/p>\n \n\tI have no doubt.<\/p>\n \n\tBut I guess I\u2019ve always been a little uncomfortable with that notion of somehow, as women, we\u2019re victims. And a lot of us have done really well. I look at Dana [Walden], I look at Bela [Bajaria], I look at Cindy. And before them, I look at Nancy Tellem and Nina Tassler and Bonnie Hammer. So, there were opportunities. And I think the one thing that I see with all of them, because interviewers will often ask, \u201cHow do you get a seat at the table?\u201d And it\u2019s like, \u201cYou pull out a chair and sit down.\u201d It\u2019s funny, I remember when I was promoted here, there was a big question about whether I should be chairman or chairwoman or chair.<\/p>\n \n\tYou landed on chairman. Why was that important to you?<\/p>\n \n\tI don\u2019t know, all of the other chairmen in the company were chairman. And chair? I\u2019m not a chair. And chairwoman felt a little defensive. But it was an odd thing. Even at that law firm where I was the only woman, I remember the head of the litigation department would talk and everybody would be taking notes and then he\u2019d get up and walk down the hall and we would all follow him and he\u2019d walk into the men\u2019s room, and everybody would follow him into the men\u2019s room, except me. I would stand outside the door and I remember thinking, even then, \u201cI\u2019m so glad I don\u2019t have to go watch him pee.\u201d<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t \t\t\t\t\tStern as a young executive with now-FX chief Nick Grad and Apple TV honcho Jamie Erlicht.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tCourtesy of Subject<\/p>\n \n\tYou\u2019ve gained a lot of wisdom in your 40-plus years in this business. What would you like to pass on to the next generation?<\/p>\n \n\tWhat I\u2019ve seen in the young people that I deal with, particularly young women, is a fear. A fear of being too pushy or being perceived as too pushy, a fear of rejection, a fear that they won\u2019t be accepted or permitted into the room. When a young woman comes to speak to me, by and large, she\u2019ll knock on the door and say, \u201cI\u2019m sorry\u2026\u201d And I\u2019ll say, \u201cWhy? What did you do?\u201d Whereas men, and maybe it\u2019s just the way that they are raised or trained, if they have something to say, they\u2019ll come in, \u201cDo you have some time? Can I speak to you.\u201d They\u2019re not apologizing for their presence. So the advice that I always give people is to just assume that you belong and ask for what you want.<\/p>\n \n\tHow about at the negotiating table?\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tI think the reason I\u2019ve been successful as a negotiator is because I understand that every deal is the beginning of a relationship. So, every negotiation for me starts with, \u201cWhat\u2019s important to you?\u201d I remember early in my career on a show called Mad About You, I was making a deal for a new showrunner. In those days, showrunners did not stay with their show for very long \u2014 two years and then they turned it over. But one of the showrunners had been quite successful for us, so we were renewing his contract and his lawyer made these outrageous demands. It was a lawyer I know well, who was not an outrageous guy. And I said to him, \u201cThere\u2019s an issue here. Tell me what it is.\u201d And he said, \u201cWell, [the showrunner] is not feeling loved or respected by the studio.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tSo, I called the showrunner and I said, \u201cYou know, I\u2019m worried about you. You don\u2019t look good. You got heavy. I don\u2019t think you\u2019re taking care of yourself. I\u2019m having a treadmill sent to your office and I\u2019m giving you two tickets to Hawaii. Go. Take care of yourself. Have a vacation.\u201d The deal closed. And I never would have thought to do that if I hadn\u2019t asked the question. So, I always say to people who work for me, ask those questions. You don\u2019t have to be so smart, you really don\u2019t. You can be a little dumb. You can say to somebody, \u201cWhy? What do you need? What\u2019s the problem?\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tEarly in this conversation, you agreed this was a good time to get out of this business\u2026<\/p>\n \n\tBut I\u2019m actually very optimistic about the business. \u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tPeople are looking at the consolidation that\u2019s happening and they\u2019re looking at how hard it is to make a deal or sell a show. So, tell them why they don\u2019t need to worry.<\/p>\n \n\tBecause people love stories, and that\u2019s not going to change. So, if the business gets too hard, it\u2019s like everything else, too much pressure here, it\u2019s got to be released there. The models may change. They have to change. And we\u2019re going to go through a tough time because the guild deals are up, but I don\u2019t think anybody\u2019s got the appetite for a strike. I can\u2019t imagine. And if there is one, it\u2019s going to be another bit of pain in the infrastructure. But ultimately, things change. I mean, here we are doing broadcast [shows at Lionsgate]. I\u2019ve found myself saying to Scott Herbst [Lionsgate\u2019s development head], \u201cFind me some more broadcast procedurals.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tQuite the pivot.<\/p>\n \n\tI remember when I came to Lionsgate, it was very, very early days, and Kevin [Beggs] was building a TV business with no resources and no support and he was doing remarkably well considering but I came in and I said, \u201cWe\u2019re going to get rid of the broadcast business. It doesn\u2019t make any sense for us.\u201d We just didn\u2019t have the money in those days for those kind of deficits. I figured out how to convince everybody that cable would work for us. I remember bringing [then-Showtime boss] Bob Greenblatt Weeds because I knew Jenji. She was a staff writer on Mad About You, and she was really talented. Then Showtime built whatever business it built, which was, for a time, a great linear business and now they\u2019ve decided to shift. And that\u2019s what happens. We at Lionsgate shifted from broadcast to cable, and then when cable became less robust, we figured out streaming, and now we\u2019re back. Suddenly it\u2019s like, The Rookie, that\u2019s a good model because we have all of the rights. My point is that I\u2019ve been in the business long enough to see it all comes back around. And so, yeah, I\u2019m hopeful.<\/p>\n \n\tWe should note that you are also signing off with a major hit on your hands. Lionsgate is the studio on The Studio, which satirizes this industry.<\/a> I\u2019ve got to ask, do you find yourself cringing as the scripts or cuts comes through?<\/p>\n<\/p>\n<\/p>\n