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\t\t\t\t\tWriter-Director BenDavid Grabinski<\/p>\n
\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tJesse Grant\/Getty Images<\/p>\n
\n\tGrabinski was in the middle of co-showrunning the anime series Scott Pilgrim Takes Off<\/a> (2023) when his producer Andrew Lazar took the initiative and brought his pandemic-era script to 20th Century. With the room already warm, Grabinski met up with studio brass a few days later to offer his own Mike & Nick pitch that would lead to a handshake and signature.<\/p>\n \n\t20th is a fitting home for Mike & Nick, especially since studio head Steve Asbell<\/a> has been championing bold genre swings from emerging filmmakers ever since he took the reins in March 2020. Grabinski\u2019s Mike & Nick now joins the likes of Dan Trachtenberg<\/a>\u2019s Predator universe, Zach Cregger<\/a>\u2019s Barbarian, Brian Duffield<\/a>\u2019s No One Will Save You and Arkasha Stevenson<\/a>\u2019s The First Omen.<\/p>\n \n\tThe Nebraska-born, Iowa-raised Grabinski ultimately juggled the smorgasbord of disparate tones with ease, amounting to one of 2026\u2019s most enjoyable surprises thus far.<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cIt took me 20 years of working in this business to get to a point where a studio decided to make a big action-comedy that I wanted to do. [20th] somehow understood this movie,\u201d Grabinski tells The Hollywood Reporter in support of Mike & Nick\u2019s March 27 Hulu release. \u201cThe final movie is not only the movie that was in my head, but it\u2019s also the movie I pitched them.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tThe movie centers on the aforementioned title characters. (The title itself is a tribute to 1969\u2019s Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice). Mike (James Marsden) is an enforcer on behalf of a loan shark named Nick (Vince Vaughn), however he\u2019s secretly having an affair with Nick\u2019s wife, Alice (Eiza Gonz\u00e1lez). Tired of having blood on his hands, Mike plans to leave the larger criminal organization they both serve, but not before Nick twists his arm for one last all-night assignment. The marketed swerve is that Mike is actually working for \u201cFuture Nick,\u201d who traveled back in time by six months in order to right a major wrong involving his present self.\u00a0As a result, Vaughn pulls double duty throughout many scenes.<\/p>\n \n\tThe film may have a time machine, but Grabinski doesn\u2019t burden viewers with an info dump as to how it all works. There\u2019s a scene where Alice stabs the leg of \u201cPresent Nick\u201d to establish that Future Nick\u2019s fate hinges on the safety of Present Nick, but that\u2019s really the extent of any time-travel rules. 20th did have some concerns about whether the audience would be confused by any of the time-hopping mechanics, but Grabinski always felt confident in his less-is-more approach.<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cI mean this with no judgment, but I felt there was a lot of needless discussion and meetings about time travel logic. I felt very strongly that it was not going to be an issue,\u201d Grabinski shares. \u201cThen I made the movie, and they were like, \u2018Alright, let\u2019s show an audience to see if they\u2019re confused.\u2019 My assistant and I read all 550 cards with everything everyone wrote [at the test screening]. We also sat in the focus group, and nobody was confused.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tGetting into spoiler territory, Grabinski has compared Present Nick and Future Nick to Ebenezer Scrooge at the beginning and end of his arc in A Christmas Carol. Present Nick is selfish and angry, while Future Nick has realized the error of his ways, hence his desire to undo his previous actions. Present Nick eventually learns the same lesson and makes the ultimate sacrifice by taking a bullet that was headed in the direction of Mike, Alice and their impending baby.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tFrom there, Mike and Alice rush Future Nick and a gravely wounded Present Nick to Wampler Memorial, a hospital that\u2019s named after late entertainment journalist and The Kingcast <\/a>co-host, Scott Wampler. The sequence includes a tear-jerking sing-along to Oasis\u2019 \u201cDon\u2019t Look Back in Anger,\u201d a needle drop that Grabinski secured well before their unexpected reunion in August 2024. But Present Nick succumbed to his neck injury upon their arrival, resulting in the simultaneous death of Future Nick.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tRefreshingly, Grabinski opted to subtly convey Future Nick\u2019s death with an empty backseat instead of deploying a well-worn visual trick.<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cThere\u2019s just no visually interesting way to see him vanish that I either haven\u2019t seen before or doesn\u2019t risk breaking the style of the movie. It\u2019s visually coded as a stylized action movie. Anything fantastical is offscreen or understated,\u201d Grabinski says. \u201cWhether he beams up or fades away, I wanted it to be in your imagination. But it was probably the riskiest choice in the movie. If the visual storytelling didn\u2019t track in that moment, the movie falls apart. My hope was that it\u2019s more emotional to feel his absence.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tIn a last-minute twist, Alice reveals the existence of a second time machine. She and Mike track it down at a storage facility, and the movie ends with Mike inside the time machine, readying himself to prevent Present Nick\u2019s death. After all, Future Nick and Present Nick saved his life twice. Grabinski again wants the audience to picture what comes next, as opposed to expecting a sequel. He\u2019s not ruling out the possibility if inspiration strikes someday, but in the meantime, he\u2019s honoring his original intention to just make a satisfying standalone movie.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cI don\u2019t want to make a sequel now, but I might have an idea later on that\u2019d be really great to do. I was just trying to have the movie function as a [standalone] movie,\u201d Grabinski adds. \u201cMike and Alice are going to go get their friend, especially now that he\u2019s no longer a piece of shit. I just wanted you to leave with the feeling that they\u2019re going to figure it out. The closure is knowing that they will. You just don\u2019t need to know how.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tThat said, Grabinski does admit that he would\u2019ve filmed some closing-credit scenes if time and money were no object.\u00a0They would\u2019ve depicted pieces of Mike\u2019s mission through time.<\/p>\n \n\t\u201cI\u2019d have a funny end-credit sequence where you see Mike tell Jimmy Boy not to jump out the window,\u201d Grabinski says. \u201cThere\u2019s some other lovable people that he could visit to make sure they\u2019re okay, but whatever. You can imagine that he does all that.\u201d<\/p>\n \n\tBelow, during a conversation with THR, Grabinski also discusses the meticulous process of capturing two Vince Vaughn characters without limiting the noted improviser\u2019s tendency to deviate from the script.<\/p>\n \n\t***<\/p>\n \n\tWhen did you write Mike & Nick & Nick & Alice in relation to Happily<\/a> and Scott Pilgrim Takes Off<\/a>?\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tI wrote the first 15 pages of it right after [filming] Happily [in 2019]. Then, in the spring of 2020, I was in prep as the showrunner of a TV show when some big things happened in the world. I got sent home temporarily and never went back. But I ended up writing the rest of the script during lockdown. Then Scott Pilgrim came together, and that took over my life for three years. I still wanted to make Mike & Nick, but I was too busy to do any work to get it going.<\/p>\n \n\tThen my producer, Andrew Lazar, went rogue a little bit and basically got it set up at 20th. He called me one day, saying, \u201cHey, so 20th is really interested in this movie. They want to know if you could come in on Monday and meet.\u201d I was in the middle of voice records for Scott when I went in to talk with them, and we had a great meeting before making a deal.<\/p>\n \n\tSo as soon as I was done with Scott, I jumped into the deep end on this one, and it was very nice to go directly into the next thing. It did get delayed a little bit. We had started making actor offers when the strikes happened, but all of that led to me talking about it today.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t \t\t\t\t\tJames Marsden as Mike, Eiza Gonz\u00e1lez as Alice and Vince Vaughn as Nick in Mike & Nick & Nick & Alice.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tCourtesy of 20th Century Studios<\/p>\n \n\tIn Happily, you dipped your toe into sci-fi. With Mike & Nick, you put both feet in the sci-fi pool, but you didn\u2019t fully dive into it. Do you loathe the idea of having to write sci-fi exposition?\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tYeah, I immediately killed off the only guy who could give exposition. Then it could be about a bunch of lovable idiots who don\u2019t know the science part of science fiction. I love science fiction, but I liked the fact that these characters don\u2019t really have any business being in a sci-fi movie. That felt more fun to me in this case.<\/p>\n \n\tYour affinity for action cinema, especially Hong Kong action, is evident throughout Mike & Nick.<\/p>\n \n\tI\u2019ve wanted to make action movies my whole life. I also like combining genres, so this is my version of the buddy action-comedy. I had been trying to make another movie for almost a decade. It was just really expensive because it had car chases and all this stuff. Finally, I was like, I guess I should just make a small movie. <\/p>\n \n\tSo I wrote the only version of a small movie I could think of that didn\u2019t have explosions and car chases, and that was Happily. Then I could say, \u201cHey guys, I can make a movie, so what about the action ones now?\u201d I just really love action. It\u2019s one of the biggest reasons for making this movie. I then mixed all of these other genres into something that\u2019s hopefully cohesive.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tYeah, the film has a little of everything: sci-fi, comedy, action, romance and drama. Filmmakers often tell me that studios tend to shy away from genre mash-ups like this, because they\u2019re harder to sell than something that\u2019s easily defined. Did you deal with any of that resistance?<\/p>\n \n\tNo, I didn\u2019t, but it took me 20 years of working in this business to get to a point where a studio decided to make a big action-comedy that I wanted to do. [20th] somehow understood this movie and really liked the script. During the meeting, I guess I just said all the things that made them not worry about it. I put a lot of thought into it. The final movie is not only the movie that was in my head, but it\u2019s also the movie I pitched them. The only difference is I didn\u2019t know what actors were going to be in it yet, but tonally, it\u2019s what I was always trying to do.<\/p>\n \n\tEven though it has a lot of different genres, they understood that, at its core, this is a one-night-gone-wrong buddy action-comedy. It is a digestible type of movie that people love and enjoy. I was trying to make a hamburger. It might be a weird hamburger, but it\u2019s still funny and entertaining. It\u2019s about two guys who you really hope will mend their friendship, and that\u2019s great stuff for movie stars to be amusing and charming. There\u2019s all this other shit, but it\u2019s still just that. It does have a time machine, but it\u2019s not constantly looping through time like Rick and Morty.<\/p>\n \n\tI mean this with no judgment, but I felt there was a lot of needless discussion and meetings about time travel logic. I felt very strongly that it was not going to be an issue. It just felt very simple to me. Then I made the movie, and they were like, \u201cAlright, let\u2019s show an audience to see if they\u2019re confused.\u201d And nobody was, which is a miracle. My assistant and I read all 550 cards with everything everyone wrote [at the test screening]. We also sat in the focus group, and nobody was confused. So that was the only thing the studio was worried about because time travel can lead to headaches, but we luckily didn\u2019t have that problem.<\/p>\n \n\tShooting an actor in a double role must be incredibly complicated and tedious. Was the creation of two Vince Vaughn characters as arduous as I\u2019m imagining?\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tIt was the biggest pain in the ass of my entire life, but it was completely worth it. I knew what I was getting into. My role when I was writing the script was to think of the most creatively or emotionally satisfying thing that can happen at any moment. I\u2019d ask myself, What is the most entertaining version of this movie? I wasn\u2019t thinking, How much of a pain in the ass is it going to be to execute this? I never turned on that part of my brain that knew this was going to be difficult.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tThen I hired a brilliant actor [in Vince] who isn\u2019t always on-book. He can have a loose energy for what is a really regimented, complicated process, one where a gigantic computer-operated camera has to repeat a shot. We\u2019d spend half a day with Vince as one character, and then he\u2019d come back as his other character who has to interact with himself and other characters. So you don\u2019t want to creatively hinder an actor\u2019s process, but this [filmmaking] process was inherently mechanical.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tI could have hired an actor who wasn\u2019t as good \u2014\u00a0someone who\u2019s very much like, \u201cIt must be exactly what is written, to the syllable. I can mechanically do this.\u201d But I didn\u2019t want the movie to have that kind of energy. I wanted it to feel a little loose. I wrote almost everything that\u2019s in the movie, but sometimes, we would shift or swap lines on set. There was still a process of discovery, and I didn\u2019t want to lock anyone into anything.<\/p>\n \n\tVince had never done anything like this before, so we both had to figure it out. I spent a lot of time in prep figuring out how to do it technically, and then he had to figure out how to do his process in this way. I wanted it to feel effortless when you watch the movie, and that was its own challenge. I didn\u2019t want you distracted by the fact that there\u2019s two of him. I want you to watch it like there\u2019s two different actors. The hope is that you\u2019re engaged by what\u2019s happening and not wondering how I did it.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tStephen Root and the Cronenberg for President t-shirt have now been included in Happily, Scott Pilgrim Takes Off and Mike & Nick. Are these through-lines your version of Sam Raimi\u2019s Oldsmobile and Bruce Campbell?\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tYes, actually. I hadn\u2019t thought about that, but that\u2019s literally it. The fact that I got the Cronenberg for President shirt in an animated show, I don\u2019t know how the fuck that worked out, but it did. It\u2019s partially an homage to a yearly festival in L.A. called Beyond Fest. They also host these periodic screenings, and they actually co-presented a screening of Mike & Nick at the Aero the other night.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tI\u2019ve been going to Beyond Fest since the very first one when they had a Goblin concert. One year, they did a retrospective with Cronenberg, and they used a t-shirt cannon to shoot Cronenberg for President shirts at the audience. I was originally only going to put the shirt in Are You Afraid of the Dark? It just seemed funny to me to have a kid wearing that. But I\u2019ve kept putting it into things. [Writer\u2019s Note: Grabinski rebooted Are You Afraid of the Dark? in 2019.]<\/p>\n \n\tEmily Hampshire \u2014\u00a0who plays Sam the cop in Mike & Nick [and was in the original Are You Afraid of the Dark?] \u2014\u00a0saw the shirt on the convenience store clerk. She then gave me a gift on her wrap day, and it was a Cronenberg for President shirt signed by Cronenberg himself. There was even a photo of him signing it, which obviously made me cry. It was a total surprise. She worked with him on Cosmopolis, and she was like, This will make BenDavid happy. So I don\u2019t think I\u2019ll ever get a wrap gift that good again, although I did get Oasis tickets from Andrew Lazar. Those are equally great wrap gifts.<\/p>\n \n\tOasis announced their reunion right before you started shooting in September of 2024. Did you have reunion fever when you revolved the finale around \u201cDon\u2019t Look Back in Anger\u201d?\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tI got \u201cDon\u2019t Look Back in Anger\u201d 18 months before we shot the movie, and they had no intention of doing a reunion at that time. If I tried to get the song later when the reunion was happening, I never would\u2019ve gotten it, and there\u2019s no movie without that song. So I really lucked out that they were still in their \u201cFuck you, we\u2019re never going to play again\u201d phase. <\/p>\n \n\tI went to the Edinburgh [Scotland] show, and tickets went on sale during my last week of shooting Mike & Nick. It might\u2019ve been the day before we shot the \u201cDon\u2019t Look Back in Anger\u201d scene, so it was just a weird bit of serendipity.<\/p>\n \n\tBesides the Oasis tune, you have quite an extensive list of needle drops. One in the third act caught my ear because it\u2019s the Traci Lords song, \u201cControl,\u201d from 1995\u2019s Mortal Kombat<\/a>. Did you explain that connection to your cast member Lewis Tan (who stars in the new Mortal Kombat movies)? Or did he recognize it himself?<\/p>\n \n\tI love Lewis. We had some sort of conversation about it, but I can\u2019t remember exactly if he picked up on that. When I first showed the finished movie to Lewis at our friends and family screening on the lot, he walked up to me and was like, \u201cBest soundtrack ever, bro.\u201d So all I know is that he loved the soundtrack. <\/p>\n \n\tThe end credits of Scott Pilgrim Takes Off\u2019s final episode is a remix of the Mortal Kombat theme. I got the guy who screams \u201cMortal Kombat!\u201d in Mortal Kombat to scream the title of my show as the credits are listed off. So I\u2019ve always got a little Mortal Kombat on the brain, I guess.<\/p>\n \n\t[Spoiler Warning.] I admire the way you executed the goodbye to both Nicks, especially Future Nick. You didn\u2019t oversell it; you just subtly depicted an empty backseat. Would it have been a hat-on-a-hat situation to go from one demise to the other?<\/p>\n \n\tWell, there\u2019s just no visually interesting way to see him vanish that I either haven\u2019t seen before or doesn\u2019t risk breaking the style of the movie. It\u2019s visually coded as a stylized action movie. Anything fantastical is offscreen or understated. When they use the time machine, I\u2019m not doing this gigantic visual ordeal. I wanted everything that you see in the movie to be living within this relatable buddy action-comedy and gangster movie. I never wanted to live in a sci-fi aesthetic. Whether he beams up or fades away, I wanted it to be in your imagination.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tBut it was probably the riskiest choice in the movie. If the visual storytelling didn\u2019t track in that moment, the movie falls apart. I committed to a concept and asked myself, Will this track for the audience? Is it impactful enough to just see the empty seat? My hope was that it\u2019s more emotional to feel his absence. So there was a lot of intention behind it, but I could have really fucked that up if it didn\u2019t work.<\/p>\n \n\t[Spoiler Warning.] After that sad moment, you give the audience a pick-me-up by introducing a second time machine that can potentially save Nick. Do you genuinely want to make a sequel to save Nick? Or is it more about wanting the audience to imagine what comes next?\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tI don\u2019t want to make a sequel now, but I might have an idea later on that\u2019d be really great to do. I was just trying to have the movie function as a [standalone] movie. The ending, to me, is not, Let\u2019s now go see what Mike did. We just know that he\u2019s going to do it. We don\u2019t know how, but we know that he\u2019s going to make this right.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tThe emotional catharsis is that Future Nick redeemed himself by being as selfless as you could possibly be, and you see him make peace with it. That\u2019s probably the first time ever he didn\u2019t hate himself. So Mike and Alice are going to go get their friend, especially now that he\u2019s no longer a piece of shit. (Laughs.) I just wanted you to leave with the feeling that they\u2019re going to figure it out. The closure is knowing that they will. You just don\u2019t need to know how.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tIf there was a world where I could do anything with an unlimited budget and unlimited time, I\u2019d have a funny end-credit sequence where you see Mike tell Jimmy Boy not to jump out the window. You could also see Mike pivot some other stuff. There\u2019s some other lovable people that he could visit to make sure they\u2019re okay, but whatever. You can imagine that he does all that.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tSo maybe I\u2019ll make a sequel someday if I come up with a story that people need to know, but I don\u2019t have one right now. I just wanted the movie to feel like it functions on its own so that you don\u2019t need anything else.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t \t\t\t\t\tEiza Gonz\u00e1lez as Alice and James Marsden as Nick in Mike & Nick & Nick & Alice.<\/p>\n \t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tCourtesy of 20th Century Studios<\/p>\n \n\t[Spoiler Warning.] Present Nick and Future Nick may be deep into middle age, but they suggest that it\u2019s never too late to change one\u2019s stripes. Do you actually believe that people can fundamentally change later in life?\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tThere\u2019s a line in the movie where Future Nick says, \u201cPeople can change,\u201d and Present Nick says, \u201cCan they?\u201d And Future Nicks says, \u201cThey can certainly feel less angry.\u201d And I do think that\u2019s true. We change in little ways every day. None of us are the same people we were six months ago. The older you get, the more you realize how worked up you\u2019ve gotten about shit that doesn\u2019t matter and how destructive that can be. Sometimes, you only can gain that perspective from hitting a wall and things going wrong.<\/p>\n \n\tMovies have hopeful messages like this because emotional catharsis in art is engaging. They can be messages you actually do believe in without getting pretentious or message-y. So I definitely think it\u2019s true that people can become less angry.<\/p>\n \n\tThere have been many storied feuds throughout Hollywood history. There\u2019s even a TV show that chronicles some of them. I bring this up because your 20th Century stablemate, Brian Duffield<\/a>, has led a yearslong smear campaign<\/a> against you. What\u2019s the root cause of this very real bad blood?\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\t(Laughs.) It\u2019s so funny because there\u2019s probably no one I text more. I have a group chat with Duffield and Dave Green, the director of Coyote vs. Acme, and it\u2019s just us goofing on each other all day, every day. The head of 20th, Steve Asbell, is also in on the bit, and it\u2019s a joke for no one except us. It\u2019s very amusing that some people think that there\u2019s actual conflict there. If you Google my name, I guess the \u201ccontroversy\u201d comes up. There are people who are trying to figure out, Why does Brian Duffield hate him so much?\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tBut I\u2019m as complicit as possible. When No One Will Save You<\/a> came out, I tweeted<\/a> about separating the art from the artist. That led to people texting me, asking, \u201cWhy do you hate [Duffield]?\u201d So it\u2019s not the most responsible running gag for us to have, but sometimes you need things in life that amuse you.\u00a0<\/p>\n \n\tI\u2019ve never actually verbalized it in this way, so Brian is going to laugh really hard when he finds out about this. I\u2019m going to text him and say, \u201cI just talked to The Hollywood Reporter about our \u2018feud.\u2019\u201d Hopefully, Ryan Murphy will turn it into a season of Feud that no one enjoys. I\u2019m not knocking Ryan Murphy; I\u2019m just saying that a season about our feud would be the most boring thing ever made.<\/p>\n \n\t***<\/p>\n<\/p>\n
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