Talley\u2019s hired Bush International Consulting to review specific allegations in July 2021.<\/p>\n
\u201cThe imputation that Talley\u2019s disregards safety at its Ashburton sites is false,\u201d Bush told the High Court at Auckland.<\/p>\n
\u201cWe found no evidence that Talley\u2019s are lying to their customers about worker safety at their Ashburton site.\u201d<\/p>\n
He said suggestions about workers at a coldstore operating in unsafe conditions were false.<\/p>\n
\u201cWhile a coldstore can be a difficult place to work, we found that Talley\u2019s made a big effort to keep workers safe.\u201d<\/p>\n
Bush said he felt imputations of safety cover-ups at a Talley\u2019s Blenheim plant were also false. <\/p>\n
Bush is now the Chief Commissioner of Victoria Police and was the Police Commissioner in New Zealand from 2014 to 2020.<\/p>\n
In 2020 he established Bush International Consulting, and the next year Talley\u2019s engaged him as a consultant to investigate the 1 News allegations.<\/p>\n
Davey Salmon, KC, is counsel for TVNZ. Photo \/ Dean Purcell<\/p>\n
Bush expertise queried<\/p>\n
TVNZ counsel Davey Salmon, KC, began cross-examining Bush this morning.<\/p>\n
\u201cYour brief sets out your expertise in policing which I take it involves management expertise and investigative expertise. Is that correct?\u201d<\/p>\n
\u201cYes,\u201d Bush replied.<\/p>\n
\u201cThere\u2019s no formal qualifications in health and safety.\u201d<\/p>\n
\u201cIt\u2019s all experience.\u201d<\/p>\n
\u201cYou\u2019ve never held a role in health and safety.\u201d<\/p>\n
Bush said he\u2019d been too senior in an organisation since 2015 to hold such a role.<\/p>\n
Salmon asked if police had health and safety experts, and Bush confirmed they did.<\/p>\n
\u201cYou would defer to those experts on their areas of expertise,\u201d Salmon asked.<\/p>\n
\u201cI\u2019m far too experienced to purely defer to other people\u2019s views,\u201d Bush said. \u201cI take expert advice but I triangulate it with my own observations.\u201d<\/p>\n
\u201cHow much time have you spent working on industrial sites advising on health and safety?\u201d Salmon asked.<\/p>\n
\u201cI don\u2019t advise others on health and safety but I do share learnings across organisations,\u201d was the reply.<\/p>\n
Bush said he had given advice, including to Oranga Tamariki and a council.<\/p>\n
\u201cThat wasn\u2019t an answer to my question though, was it Mr Bush?\u201d<\/p>\n
The commissioner accepted he was not a machinery expert.<\/p>\n
He told the court Talley\u2019s engaged him in July 2021, through Peter Archer, a private detective and former policeman he had known since 1981.<\/p>\n
The court heard Archer\u2019s Risk Management Group Limited had conducted investigations and risk mitigation for Talley\u2019s.<\/p>\n
That work for Talley\u2019s related to alleged employee theft at its subsidiary Affco\u2019s meatworks but not in health and safety matters, the court heard.<\/p>\n
The court heard a Phil Swanson and a Paul Swale were also involved in the investigation.<\/p>\n
\u201cDid you look at Mr Swanson\u2019s areas of expertise when retaining him?\u201d Salmon asked.<\/p>\n
Bush said he \u201cpossibly\u201d scrutinised Swanson\u2019s expertise.<\/p>\n
\u201cIt sounds like you can\u2019t remember,\u201d Salmon said.<\/p>\n
Bush said he had wanted someone with experience around machinery, and retained Swanson prior to commencing the Talley\u2019s visits and investigation.<\/p>\n
Salmon continued to ask Bush about what level of expertise the investigators had, how he collated records, and how he communicated with the other investigators.<\/p>\n
The court was shown an invoice from Swale to Talley\u2019s for $11,804.75.<\/p>\n
Most of that was for an Ashburton safety review priced at $220 an hour for 43-and-a-half hours, amounting to $9570.<\/p>\n
Salmon said that one invoice was the only document related to Swale\u2019s work.<\/p>\n
\u201cCan you remember seeing his report?\u201d he asked Bush.<\/p>\n
\u201cVaguely, but I couldn\u2019t say any more.\u201d<\/p>\n
Jodi O’Donnell, TVNZ chief executive, with reporter Thomas Mead. Photo \/ Dean Purcell<\/p>\n
Sources not targeted, Bush says<\/p>\n
Talley\u2019s wanted a review of health and safety at Ashburton, and also of eight allegations in the TV stories.<\/p>\n
First, it wanted to know the \u201csource, nature and substance\u201d of each allegation.<\/p>\n
Second, were those allegations credible and in context, or false?<\/p>\n
Third, the company wanted to know of any \u201cpattern\u201d to the allegations and how widespread the allegations were.<\/p>\n
Fourth, it asked if employees working at the time backed up the allegations.<\/p>\n
Fifth, were the allegations justified?<\/p>\n
Sixth, it sought to establish if the company was aware of the allegations before the broadcasts, and if so, what steps it took to address the claims.<\/p>\n
Seventh, the company asked if any such steps were adequate and, finally, what Talley\u2019s could have done better before or after learning of the allegations.<\/p>\n
On the first point, Bush said in no way was the focus to \u201ctrack down\u201d the person or people who had contacted the TV station.<\/p>\n
\u201cOur mission was to speak to staff, more so to understand the nature and substance of each allegation. If a source had come forward, all well and good.\u201d<\/p>\n
He understood Archer felt the same way – then he was asked how he could be so sure.<\/p>\n
Bush said he and Archer were operating off the same floor at Ashburton, so they were in constant contact during those days.<\/p>\n
\u201cIf someone had wanted to remain confidential, we would have protected that person\u2019s confidentiality.\u201d<\/p>\n
Salmon said Archer conducted several interviews without Bush present.<\/p>\n
\u201cHe may have kept notes but I don\u2019t have them. I haven\u2019t read them,\u201d Bush said.<\/p>\n
\u201cHow did you record his comments to you?\u201d<\/p>\n
Bush said he used a notebook.<\/p>\n
\u201cDid you exchange any emails with Peter Archer in the course of this investigation at all?\u201d<\/p>\n
\u201cPossibly but I can\u2019t reference them,\u201d Bush replied.<\/p>\n
Bush said he often worked with Archer in the office.<\/p>\n
\u201cIt sounds like your memory of these events has faded a fair bit in the four years since,\u201d Salmon said.<\/p>\n
\u201cThat\u2019s why I rely on notes \u2026 My email traffic is considerable.”<\/p>\n
Emergency stops <\/p>\n
The court heard a discussion about emergency stop (e-stop) buttons at Ashburton.<\/p>\n
The trial heard TVNZ alleged those buttons were few and far between, meaning workers could not stop a line quickly if an accident happened.<\/p>\n
Bush said he and Swanson conducted a full tour of the site with Danie Swanepoel, vegetables general manager for Talley\u2019s.<\/p>\n
Salmon asked Bush if he could tell the difference between a control stop and an e-stop.<\/p>\n
Bush said he could not now, but probably could at the time.<\/p>\n
He said after a discussion with Swanson, he concluded Ashburton had 153 e-stop buttons, far more than the 15 stated in the TVNZ allegation.<\/p>\n
\u201cDid you form written conclusions about which of the 153 emergency stop buttons you describe in fact worked and which parts of the plants they worked on? You didn\u2019t, did you?\u201d Salmon asked.<\/p>\n
Another allegation was about crush risks at the Ashburton coldstore.<\/p>\n
Bush said training and compliance were key to reducing those risks.<\/p>\n
Other issues related to training and communication so staff could find e-stops, and whether non-native English speakers were properly informed about risks.<\/p>\n
Bush said a pilot multi-language programme commenced in 2019.<\/p>\n
Salmon asked if people being inducted might not have been told enough to be informed about the location and function of more than 150 e-stops.<\/p>\n
Bush agreed.<\/p>\n
Blenheim not initially visited<\/p>\n
Salmon said Bush formed opinions about a Talley\u2019s Blenheim site before visiting it.<\/p>\n
\u201cSo you were comfortable about making safety conclusions [about] the Blenheim site without inspecting the site?\u201d<\/p>\n
\u201cI am now, having been there.\u201d<\/p>\n
\u201cThat\u2019s not what I asked.\u201d<\/p>\n
Salmon continued: \u201cSo your approach to investigations is generally whether there\u2019s a suggestion of a breach of a law, you are happy that there wasn\u2019t one, because you\u2019ve talked to someone who wasn\u2019t there, and haven\u2019t gone to the site?\u201d<\/p>\n
Talley\u2019s counsel Brian Dickey, KC, objected.<\/p>\n
Brian Dickey, KC, counsel for Talley’s. Photo \/ Dean Purcell<\/p>\n
But Justice Pheroze Jagose said Bush must answer.<\/p>\n
\u201cIt\u2019s not an answer to refer back to a paragraph in his brief,\u201d the judge said.<\/p>\n
\u201cDo you agree that it is not sound investigative technique to form any views about whether allegations are true without personally investigating \u2026 at the relevant site?” Salmon said.<\/p>\n
\u201cMy investigative preference would be to visit the site,\u201d Bush said.<\/p>\n
Salmon\u2019s cross-examination ended at 12.54pm and then Dickey asked Bush questions, including about crate safety.<\/p>\n
\u201cMy conclusion was the risk was always known but it\u2019s well managed, constant vigilance, strictly monitored, and there were rules around it about only stacking two high,\u201d Bush said.<\/p>\n
He was asked about near-misses in the context of workplace health and safety.<\/p>\n
Bush said the Ashburton plant provided advice around dealing with near-misses, including when to escalate events for possible remedial action.<\/p>\n
On the \u201csource, nature and substance\u201d of allegations, Bush reiterated: \u201cI took it to mean the root or the derivation of each allegation, not who was saying it.\u201d<\/p>\n
Bush said he spent no time in trying to pinpoint the human source of the media stories and neither did Archer.<\/p>\n
\u201cOur whole mission was to understand whether or not the allegations were founded.\u201d<\/p>\n
Dickey also asked: \u201cIs your methodology for report writing to use people other than yourself?\u201d<\/p>\n
\u201cMost of this was my own work, or all of it was my own work.\u201d<\/p>\n
Bush added that he had no staff of his own at the time.<\/p>\n
But he said he would have checked any draft report with other investigators to ensure its accuracy.<\/p>\n
The court heard Bush was no longer involved with Bush International Consulting and had been the commissioner of police for the State of Victoria for three months.<\/p>\n
The trial continues.<\/p>\n