\u201cAnother Happy Day\u201d<\/a> (2011)].<\/p>\nBut once he passed away, I had to reconceive the script and I thought, you can\u2019t tell a story about addiction today without the very real consequences. Most people don\u2019t get a second chance. Fentanyl can just take you out in an instant. It wasn\u2019t like when I was growing up; you could literally take pills off the street and you might have a bad trip or something, but you\u2019d be fine. This is something that hits close to home for a lot of people in this country. So it felt like the responsible thing to do.<\/p>\n
One of the larger thematic ideas for this season was pulling back the illusions of the world that we live in, whether it\u2019s \u201clikes will fulfill your soul,\u201d whether it\u2019s love, money, fame, drugs will provide an escape. And it felt like if we were really going to be saying something, we needed to put the audience in the position of a family member who loses someone that they love. And I know how much I love Rue and audiences love Rue. I wanted to mirror that feeling.<\/p>\n
COSCARELLI Rue\u2019s addiction had been such a big part of the show in Season 1 and 2, and in 3 it really takes a back seat. And then in the last episode, it comes out of nowhere, like a huge smack from on high. Was it intentional that you obscured this idea that Rue could still fall victim to her addiction at any moment, because that\u2019s true to your experience of addiction, whether your own or others?<\/p>\n
LEVINSON 100 percent. You can go through different phases of addiction where you\u2019re using every single second of a day to feeling like you kind of have your life together. Maybe you smoke a little weed, you drink, but it\u2019s not the most pressing issue. But that addictive personality is always underneath the surface. And in the end, she\u2019s banged up and her hand got cut. I always thought of it as a window into whatever pain is going on in her psyche. And she feels, \u201cOK, I\u2019ll just take one.\u201d And I always imagine it was the fentanyl that she had smuggled into the country in the first episode [of Season 3].<\/p>\n
JON CARAMANICA How do you think the message of what the show has tried to say has changed from season to season?<\/p>\n
LEVINSON I think it\u2019s always said a similar thing: Here\u2019s the seduction of drugs, of sex. You know, we shoot it in a very kind of alluring way. And then we show the consequences of it. And we\u2019ve done that in both seasons. But I think those consequences in high school were a little more temporary than the consequences in Season 3. So it\u2019s just about driving that home a little bit more and then specifically dealing with fentanyl. That was a big motivating factor for me.<\/p>\n
COSCARELLI I wonder about how far you like to go in terms of making this stuff seem glamorous. Because for a maybe less-experienced viewer, it could be brain scrambling to be like, well, this all looks pretty great, like the first half of \u201cGoodfellas.\u201d Why wouldn\u2019t I want to follow in the footsteps of these characters?<\/p>\n
LEVINSON I think that\u2019s a really valid question. And it\u2019s something that I wrestle with and I know our team does, too. Even going back to the Garden of Eden, it\u2019s not like the serpent came to Eve and said, \u201cYou know, this is going to be the worst decision you\u2019ve ever made in your life.\u201d We have to portray the seduction of these illicit behaviors. That\u2019s truthful and reflective of their draw in our own lives.<\/p>\n
What\u2019s most important to me is showing the consequence of it. I mean, Rue says it, I think in the second episode of the first season, they\u2019re doing drugs under the tent with the glitter stuff and it\u2019s like, drugs are cool in the same way that smoking is cool. Or any of it, until it\u2019s not.<\/p>\n
We cut to her and she\u2019s getting wheeled out of her house on a stretcher because she OD’d. And her family is sitting there in the hospital with her and her little sister\u2019s crying. We reveal that it\u2019s not just that she\u2019s hurting herself, but she\u2019s, in fact, destroying the lives of everyone around her. So I think it\u2019s always a fine line. Have we gotten it right 100 percent of the time? I don\u2019t know. But I think we have shown the psychological, physical and spiritual consequences of addiction in all of its forms better than almost anything else out there. And that, I think, helps me sleep at night.<\/p>\n
COSCARELLI Then there\u2019s the sexualization. From the very beginning, when these were supposed to be high school characters, there\u2019s been a lot of complaints that there\u2019s nudity when there doesn\u2019t need to be. How do you think about what meaningful consent is for the actors in these scenarios, given that many of them were at the very beginnings of their careers when the show started?<\/p>\n
LEVINSON There\u2019s a couple of things. From the script, you get a sense of what the role requires. Even when you go up to audition, let\u2019s use the role of Cassie, you know the role requires a certain amount of nudity. Are you comfortable? If they\u2019re comfortable, they get the role, then the next layer is the intimacy coordinator. I think it\u2019s a SAG [Screen Actors Guild] rule that if an actor then says, after getting cast, actually, I don\u2019t want to do that, we can\u2019t force them to do a scene.<\/p>\n
I believe very strongly that the best, most honest performances are when an actor feels free and safe. That\u2019s how you get a great performance. You can\u2019t if there is any tension, the emotion is going to be blocked. And that\u2019s something I\u2019ve known from my days of studying acting. So my job is to create the kind of best, most conducive environment for the actor to play this character.<\/p>\n
Look, we deal with tough subjects. It\u2019s always been part of the show, but at the same time, I care most about the emotional honesty of it and the well-being of the people that I work with. It\u2019s a long game \u2014 this isn\u2019t some five-day shoot. This is seasons and years of working with people and so you want to make sure that people are protected.<\/p>\n
COSCARELLI We\u2019ve seen what you\u2019ve done with Sydney Sweeney this season, especially given how much her star has risen. Can you talk a little bit about what that creative relationship is like, to get to the point where she\u2019s comfortable doing the intro of Episode 5, a montage of her online sex work?<\/p>\n
LEVINSON Well, it\u2019s funny, when I first wrote it, I was like, maybe we shoot all of this and we don\u2019t have any nudity, maybe there\u2019s ways to shoot around certain things? And she looked at me and she was like, \u201cAre you kidding? I\u2019m playing an OnlyFans model. You\u2019re telling me you\u2019re going to like, skirt around it?\u201d And I was like, yeah, OK, that\u2019s a fair point.<\/p>\n
I think she\u2019s a totally fearless actor. She\u2019s also just wonderfully professional and shows up just game every day. I adore working with her because there\u2019s such a flexibility in terms of the performance. There\u2019s a lot of trust that we have.<\/p>\n
And look, we\u2019re tackling this world of OnlyFans where women are being paid to, like, whisper into an ear-shaped microphone. There is a level of absurdity to it that is just fun and we\u2019re always trying to come up with ways to make it feel authentic and humorous and dramatic and also speak to the larger wants and wishes of the character.<\/p>\n
COSCARELLI Why were the trappings of sex work the right way to tell so much of the story this season, whether it\u2019s Jules as a sugar baby, Rue working at the strip club or Cassie?<\/p>\n
LEVINSON I think it\u2019s in line with a character like Jules, right? She\u2019s very talented, creatively speaking. She goes off to art school and in past seasons, she was doing random hookups in motels. There\u2019s something about not just the economy we\u2019re in, but the fear of making it as an artist and trading that for security and comfort. There is something that\u2019s alluring about it and normalized \u2014 sugar baby, sex-work-adjacent stuff. Here\u2019s a way where she can continue to create with all of the freedom but none of the risk.<\/p>\n
In terms of Cassie, from Day 1 in this series, she just wants to be loved. She wants to be adored. It feels to me like the natural progression of social media, whether it\u2019s Instagram or any of these things \u2014 you\u2019re the product, you\u2019re the brand. It\u2019s based around external validation.<\/p>\n
COSCARELLI So you\u2019re saying it\u2019s almost coincidental that they all ended up with mirroring thematic story lines?<\/p>\n
LEVINSON Well, I think it\u2019s a byproduct of culture and what\u2019s going on in terms of social media, where it\u2019s headed. I think they\u2019re all light forms of prostitution.<\/p>\n
COSCARELLI We\u2019ve talked a lot about these actors becoming stars since you\u2019ve known them. And obviously that became a logistical puzzle in terms of the making of this season with everybody. Did it result in having to sacrifice your creative vision with, say, Nate or Jules?<\/p>\n
LEVINSON Logistically, it was very tough. It\u2019s 178 days of shooting. Usually, you\u2019ll shoot scenes from, say, two episodes at a time. This season, we had to shoot scenes from Episode 8 in the morning, a scene from Episode 3 and another scene from Episode 1, just because of schedules. And then at the same time, you have to keep it all on budget. Those were real challenges.<\/p>\n
But in terms of the story, I tend to look at it more like a film instead of a television show. Sometimes a character takes a front seat, sometimes they take a back seat, sometimes they\u2019re in an episode, sometimes they\u2019re not.<\/p>\n
So in terms of Nate\u2019s role, all of the wheeling and dealing that he does is the engine for Cassie\u2019s story, which becomes the bigger arc of the season, as opposed to each episode we\u2019re going to delve into his specific struggles. I think because audiences know the history of these characters, everything is always a little, like \u2014 it gets compared to what you know.<\/p>\n
COSCARELLI People are deeply invested in these characters.<\/p>\n
LEVINSON Which is a blessing. But I think it comes down to what\u2019s right for the story and what keeps the audience engaged. I don\u2019t think that I had to compromise.<\/p>\n
COSCARELLI I want to talk about what happens after Rue\u2019s death. Ali finds Rue having overdosed on his couch and he immediately straps up and goes to work.<\/p>\n
LEVINSON Well, he goes to A.A. and talks about how he relapsed and lost faith in everything. And then he saws off a shotgun.<\/p>\n
COSCARELLI Were you using Ali\u2019s character to channel the anger you felt after Angus\u2019s death?<\/p>\n
LEVINSON I see myself in every single one of these characters, and I have since the beginning. I understand where Ali\u2019s coming from. It\u2019s a place of deep pain. Him talking about empathy and the idea if you can have empathy for the addict, then can\u2019t you have empathy for the dealer? I think it\u2019s a really interesting question and something that I\u2019ve certainly grappled with. I think that empathy, without limits, starts to lose its kind of moral shape. And I think that\u2019s what he\u2019s coming up against. At what point do you just say something is evil? If you\u2019re selling poison to kids and you\u2019re killing them, it\u2019s evil. And what do you do in that situation? How do you confront it? How do you deal with it?<\/p>\n
CARAMANICA It ends quite pessimistically.<\/p>\n
LEVINSON You think? I don\u2019t think of it as pessimistic. Her at the table in the end, it\u2019s grace.<\/p>\n
CARAMANICA I guess I look in Ali\u2019s eyes in that moment, and even if he\u2019s feeling grateful, the hopelessness seems to be hovering a little bit behind his head.<\/p>\n
LEVINSON We live in a pretty [expletive] world. It\u2019s what Lexi says in that conversation with Cassie where she read the Bible. She doesn\u2019t really understand it, but she does know people are always dying and you\u2019ve just got to go on. There\u2019s definitely a fragility there. But it\u2019s a renewal of sorts. If we can kind of get our [expletive] together and take care of our loved ones and maybe believe in something a little greater than ourselves, then we can carve out a future.<\/p>\n
Credits<\/p>\n
Popcast is hosted by Jon Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli and produced by Sophie Erickson and Kate LoPresti. This episode was filmed by Jack Belisle, Dave Mayers and Pat Gunther and edited by Jamie Hefetz. Our theme music is by Elisheba Ittoop. Nick Pitman is our audio engineer and Amanda Webster is our photo editor. Brooke Minters is our executive producer. Header video cinematography is by Tim Schutsky.<\/p>\n
Special thanks to Rebecca Blandon, Sarah Bonn, Dahlia Haddad, Mike Cordero, Chris Moore, Nicole Huber, Zach Caldwell, Maddy Masiello, Brad Kimbrough, Andrew Wilcox, Sia Michel, Nina Lassam and Sam Dolnick.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"This interview includes spoilers for the final episode of \u201cEuphoria.\u201d For Sam Levinson, the writer, director and creator…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":457465,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[21149,6162,38863,28462,202365,75570,232437,156,232431,232436,54173,232432,111,139,69,232433,232435,1742,232434,417,19418],"class_list":["post-457464","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-entertainment","tag-angus","tag-cloud","tag-coleman","tag-colman","tag-content-type-personal-profile","tag-domingo","tag-elordi","tag-entertainment","tag-euphoria-tv-program","tag-hunter-1999","tag-jacob","tag-levinson","tag-new-zealand","tag-newzealand","tag-nz","tag-sam-1985","tag-schafer","tag-sweeney","tag-sydney-1997","tag-television","tag-zendaya"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/nz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/457464","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/nz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/nz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/nz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/nz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=457464"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/nz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/457464\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/nz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/457465"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/nz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=457464"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/nz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=457464"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/nz\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=457464"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}