\u201cI think it\u2019s incredibly challenging,\u201d Luxon replied, before Gower pushed for a definitive answer.<\/p>\n
\u201cWell, you can call it … We inherited a crisis, but it is very challenging. It was incredibly difficult.\u201d<\/p>\n
Hipkins, while acknowledging Labour led the country through \u201ca global pandemic\u201d, said Luxon was in \u201cdenial about the extent of the crisis\u201d in the health system and blamed the current Government for failing to address the pressures.<\/p>\n
\u201cThe health system has never been under more pressure than that. And our health workers, our doctors and our nurses, coped with that remarkably well,\u201d Hipkins said.<\/p>\n
\u201cAnd all you have done as a Prime Minister is attack them.\u201d<\/p>\n
Gower asked Luxon whether his goal was to end emergency patients being treated in corridors.<\/p>\n
\u201cYes, Paddy, that\u2019s the goal,\u201d Luxon replied.<\/p>\n
\u201cWhat we\u2019re doing is we\u2019re investing very strongly in emergency departments infrastructure.\u201d<\/p>\n
Luxon was pushed on his refusal to work with Opportunity after Gower presented a scenario in which the party held the balance of power after the election.<\/p>\n
Luxon said National had ruled out working with Opportunity because of its support for a land tax.<\/p>\n
\u201cWe are a party that instinctively believes that New Zealanders should keep more of their own money. And as a consequence, that is why we\u2019ve ruled them out,\u201d Luxon said.<\/p>\n
Hipkins also thought Luxon wouldn\u2019t talk to Opportunity.<\/p>\n
\u201cI don\u2019t think Christopher will talk to them. I think his colleagues will remove him the day after the election and whoever replaces him will talk to them.\u201d<\/p>\n
Luxon was then pressed as to whether he would resign as leader rather than talk to Opportunity.<\/p>\n
\u201cThat\u2019s a ridiculous question. It\u2019s a hypothetical question because we\u2019re sitting here out from November 7,\u201d he replied.<\/p>\n
\u201cIt\u2019s not a consideration. I\u2019m serious about making sure I get New Zealanders to understand the choice between a Labour-led coalition with four parties and six leaders.\u201d<\/p>\n
The Chrises traded further barbs over revelations that Green Party and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori MPs met with Mongrel Mob members at a gang pad.<\/p>\n
Hipkins didn\u2019t rule Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori out of potential coalition negotiations, but reiterated that it would not hold relevant law-and-order portfolios.<\/p>\n
\u201cThat doesn\u2019t make any sense,\u201d Luxon replied.<\/p>\n
\u201cYou\u2019re going to be discussing justice issues in a Cabinet with 20 people. You\u2019re going to discuss law and order and justice issues with 20 people.\u201d<\/p>\n
Hipkins responded by accusing Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters of making racist comments about Indians.<\/p>\n
Luxon appeared to interrupt: \u201cYou\u2019ve got partners that want to be in coalition with the Mongrel Mob, my friend.\u201d<\/p>\n
Tonight\u2019s debate comes following two prior debates between the pair over the last fortnight. <\/p>\n
Last week\u2019s debate, hosted by the Herald, featured Hipkins ruling out the Greens or Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori from holding the Police and Corrections portfolios in a future Government after MPs from those parties posed for photos with Mongrel Mob members.<\/a><\/p>\n Hipkins said it wasn\u2019t appropriate members of those parties went to a gang pad: \u201cNo, I don\u2019t condone it. I think it was a bad judgment.\u201d<\/p>\n Luxon leapt on the development, resurfacing criticisms he\u2019d used in 2023 when he described Labour as \u201csoft on crime\u201d. <\/p>\n \u201cJust imagine what a Cabinet table looks like with those characters around a Cabinet table with him there,\u201d Luxon said.<\/p>\n Earlier in the debate, Luxon said Hipkins got \u201ca new coalition member today, it\u2019s the Mongrel Mob\u201d.<\/p>\n \u201cHe\u2019s got two of his party coalition partners, the Greens and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori out there campaigning with them.\u201d<\/p>\n Tonight\u2019s debate follows the release of two polls today. <\/p>\n