Richie McCaw is sitting in his home office in Christchurch, with one of his World Rugby awards twinkling away on the bookshelves behind him, assessing the state of today’s All Blacks and their challengers.
The prizes the great flanker gathered over 148 Test matches — suffering only 16 losses — fade further into the background with every passing year. He is 44 now, and it is ten years since the All Blacks won a World Cup.
So what does McCaw make of the sense that the present-day New Zealand team are eminently beatable but on a development path?
“One thing I never like talking about is that you’re developing as an All Black,” he tells The Ruck podcast, from The Times. “You should be ready to go and perform.”
This is not to say that the All Blacks are not, or should not be, learning on the job. McCaw’s team, which had a 92 per cent win rate at the end of his career between 2011 and 2015, took a while to nail it too. He is heartened that they have started their “grand slam” tour of the home unions with wins against Ireland and Scotland, but is hopeful there is more to come against England and Wales.
“There’s been some really good patches of rugby and some bits where you’d probably be a bit disappointed. You want to be a bit more consistent throughout a whole game, but you’ve still got the chance to win all four games,” McCaw says.
McCaw featured in 148 Tests for New Zealand — and lost 16
PHIL WALTER/GETTY IMAGES
“When you have setbacks, like they’ve had a couple this year, or periods in a game maybe like last week against Scotland just after half-time you let a team back in, it’s learning from those bits so that they don’t keep happening. That’s the key.
“It’s easy to look in hindsight at things that are all rosy, especially in the times we had, but there were periods we went through where it didn’t go all our own way. Sometimes that’s when you learn the most.
“Twickenham’s always a challenging place to play, but it’s one of those Test matches that you get pretty excited for. I think it’s a good test to see where the All Blacks are at. Probably the same for the English. You put those things together, it makes for an exciting match.”
McCaw loves watching the “old dog” Ardie Savea change the momentum of Tests with his game-breaking carries or jackals from the back row and he rates the No8 Peter Lakai.
Scott Robertson, the head coach, is a Crusader from Christchurch, as McCaw was. McCaw thinks Robertson is still feeling his way in the Test game having dominated Super Rugby with seven consecutive titles.
“He’s probably realised that international rugby is different to playing Super Rugby,” McCaw says with a flick of a knowing grin. “The intensity of having to get it done every week is different to going well in a competition where you can afford to trip up once or twice and rest some players or rotate.
McCaw believes that New Zealand will benefit from the rugby brain that Robertson, above, possesses
STU FORSTER/GETTY IMAGES
“There’s no doubting his knowledge and understanding. He’s got his finger right on who’s around coming through. Certainly with the rugby brain he’s got, they’ll be learning and getting better for it. He’s big on uniting a team to believe in something.”
For the All Blacks this week, it is about uniting around not losing to a hungry England. McCaw used to love all-comers having a crack at him, falling over themselves to clinch the one victory they all wanted the most.
“I love that challenge of not wanting to give up a scalp too easily, making everyone work for it,” he says. “Every one you don’t win is one closer to the one you do. You look at Ireland, they hadn’t beaten the All Blacks ever, they got that one in 2016, and won five out of the last ten. It just shows that belief on the other side [if you beat the All Blacks].”
It is why the rare losses, like in 2012, when Stuart Lancaster’s England trounced New Zealand 38-21 at Twickenham — their last home win against the All Blacks — hurt so much for McCaw.
“We got knocked over,” McCaw says of that day Manu Tuilagi ran riot. “You store those days away to make sure that doesn’t happen again. If you don’t lose too often, you remember the times you do. I’ll tell you what, it grinds away with you. I’d be worried if it didn’t. The moment you say it’s OK, you’re in trouble.”
Tuilagi starred for England in 2012 when they handed New Zealand — and McCaw — a rare defeat
BEN STANSALL/AFP VIA GETTY IMAGES
In this sense, McCaw has a huge admiration for the Springboks because he sees a lot of his All Blacks side in them — the fervent desire to stay on top, to dominate, like they did in Paris against France last Saturday night, and when trouncing New Zealand 43-10 in the Rugby Championship.
“I’ve got a lot of respect for this Boks team,” McCaw says. “I wondered if maybe some of the players have been around a long time. I don’t know how they hold up their standards but getting across the line last week . . . that’s a good French team.
Grant Williams scores a try during South Africa’s win against France in Paris, a result that impressed McCaw
DAVID ROGERS/GETTY IMAGES
“Rassie [Erasmus] has got them pretty schooled up to be ruthless about repeating game after game. It’s been pretty impressive to watch. You can have teams compete for 60 or 70 minutes but when you get one opportunity that presents itself do you take it or don’t you? We learnt to create those moments and nail them. That to me is the difference between a team that’s consistently successful to a team that has potential to be.”
Taking a wider viewpoint, McCaw is a little concerned about how much teams are kicking. Robertson has suggested that Saturday’s match will all be about the aerial bombardment England bring, but his opposite number, Steve Borthwick, countered by pointing out that the All Blacks’ kicking numbers spike when they face his team.
“There’s a lot more reward for not having the ball,” McCaw says. “At the moment we put the ball in the air for 50-50s, and teams are probably erring on the conservative side. There was a patch in 2009 where we, certainly against South Africa, had trouble because it felt like that we didn’t look after the ball in the air very well and that compounded into the rest of the game.
“I used to hate playing when it was like that, but you’ve got to be pragmatic as well. There was a period where the All Blacks kicked more than any other team in the world, but we scored more tries.
“That shows it was the type of kicks that we set up. We did some stats; too much kicking isn’t great, but not enough kicking isn’t great either, as you end up overplaying into the hands of the defensive team. So it’s getting that balance right.”
McCaw only lost once at Twickenham in a 14-year career, but he rated England for the challenges they posed.
“It was always a physical battle,” he says. “You had to really be on your game in the forward pack. When England get a bit of a roll on, and the crowd starts singing, it becomes pretty intense on the field. It’s always satisfying when you get the performance to get a win — you walk off knowing you’ve had to work pretty hard for it.”
So, where is his money on Saturday?
“I’m probably a bit biased but I think the All Blacks have shown that when they put it together they can score points,” McCaw says. “But anything can happen. I think that’s why we keep watching. All Blacks by seven.”
England v New Zealand
Twickenham, Saturday, 3.10pm
TV TNT Sports 1