With the club season over, England players George Williams and Jack Welsby are focusing on their next challenge: an Ashes series against the world champions. The pair will take centre stage at Wembley against Australia on 25 October. We met up in London to discuss the first Ashes series since 2003.<\/p>\n
George, as captain, what will you say to players like Jack who have waited so long to face Australia? Has it been frustrating not getting to face the Kangaroos? Most England players have done well in the NRL or World Club Challenge, and the Kangaroos are missing a few stars. Have they lost their aura? Williams: \u201cThe Aussies see State of Origin as bigger than playing for Australia, which I find very strange. Some NRL lads were not that bothered about playing for Australia. I found that a weird one. I couldn\u2019t get my head around it.\u201d<\/p>\n George WIlliams aims a kick at Tower Bridge. Photograph: Allan McKenzie\/SWpix.com<\/p>\n Rumour is you\u2019re going back to the NRL, George. What do they think of English players? You haven\u2019t trained together all year but what do you do in England get-togethers Defence supposedly wins titles but England lost the 2017 World Cup final 6-0. Is more maverick stuff going to beat Australia? England were narrowly beaten by Australia in the 2017 World Cup final. Photograph: Darren England\/AAP<\/p>\n Assuming you\u2019ll be at full-back Jack, do you see yourself as a third half-back? Is it difficult for club rivals to become teammates in so few sessions? Williams: \u201cEverybody loves going into camp. We work hard but when we get a day off, I\u2019ll go see my kids for an hour and am happy to go back. It\u2019s just so good.\u201d<\/p>\n Do you feel like a senior player now? How do you feel about England going straight into the Ashes having not played for 11 months? George Williams and Jack Welsby. Photograph: Jack Willacy<\/p>\n Which England player is very different than the public might think? Jack, you\u2019ve only played a few minutes at Wembley \u2013 when you came off the bench and helped St Helens win the 2021 Challenge Cup final<\/a> \u2013 so what are you looking forward to most?
Williams: \u201cThe last time we played them over here was 2016, which is a long time ago. I was young and came off the bench. It was a good experience. But Jack knows \u2013 he\u2019s been around the block long enough now, won Super League<\/a> titles and played against the NRL\u2019s best, so I don\u2019t have to tell him too much. The younger ones? Probably just enjoy it. They don\u2019t come around often. You want to test yourself against the best in the world. We want to knock them off their perch.\u201d<\/p>\n
Welsby: \u201cYeah, frustrating is one way to think about it but it\u2019s also exciting. It\u2019s been building up to this for a long time now. Obviously we missed an opportunity to play them in the World Cup. Since then we\u2019ve beaten Tonga<\/a> and Samoa<\/a>. So New Zealand and Australia are the next stepping stone. We\u2019re ready to take that leap and challenge the best in the world.\u201d<\/p>\n
Welsby: \u201cThey\u2019re human; they\u2019ve got two arms, two legs and want to beat us the same amount as we want to beat them. No matter what names they have on their backs, we\u2019re playing Australia. So, whether it\u2019s Nathan Cleary or his understudy, we\u2019re going to be ready for him. That\u2019s the mentality Waney [head coach Shaun Wane] wants: don\u2019t fear anyone or the occasion. Just go after it. We\u2019re gonna do that.\u201d<\/p>\n
Williams: \u201cRumour! They think they\u2019re superior to us. And, to be honest, Australia have beaten England regularly across a long period of time. I can\u2019t remember the last time we beat them, so there\u2019s a reason they have that confidence\/arrogance. They think they\u2019re the best in the world, but this is the best England team we\u2019ve had in a long, long time. So we\u2019re coming for them.\u201d<\/p>\n
Williams: \u201cWe just enjoy each other\u2019s company, welcome the new lads, get a feed together. Sometimes we have a guest speaker but last time Waney just showed us clips that we wouldn\u2019t have been proud of. Some would have come in pumped up and soon got brought down to reality. Waney\u2019s a tough taskmaster. He\u2019s good at what he does and he\u2019s not shy. It doesn\u2019t matter who you are, how many games you\u2019ve played or reputation. If you\u2019re not meeting the standard, he\u2019ll say it. It\u2019s not personal. He was showing us what\u2019s not England standard and what\u2019s not going to be good enough to beat Australia. As much as you don\u2019t want to hear it or see it, it\u2019s only going to improve us.\u201d<\/p>\n
Williams: \u201cIt\u2019s a bit of both. You\u2019ve got to defend well to win in general, and Shaun Wane is obsessed with how we defend. But, given the players we have, we shouldn\u2019t lack for point-scoring. We\u2019ve got structures but sometimes you\u2019ve just got to play rugby and we do that pretty well. It\u2019s hard, because you\u2019re playing against better players, but I love playing for England because you\u2019re also playing with better players. They see the opportunities that you\u2019re seeing and they make you look good.\u201d<\/p>\n
Welsby: \u201cI just chime in when I see an opportunity. You\u2019ve got to pick your timings right. International rugby\u2019s a bit less structured because you don\u2019t have as much time. We all play similar patterns at club level, but we\u2019ve got to play more off-the-cuff rugby \u2013 pick the short side, stuff like that \u2013 which really suits me and George. If he gets a chance, that\u2019s Mikey Lewis\u2019s sort of game, too. Harry Smith tells us when to calm it down and park it. So we\u2019ve got a really good balance.\u201d<\/p>\n
Welsby: \u201cI think so, at the start. When we first came in for the 2022 World Cup it was a new group and we didn\u2019t really know each other that well. Once you prove yourself on the field, the lads take you under their wing. It\u2019s really easy to go back into camp now. The new boys will be a bit on edge and nervous, but they\u2019ll soon get used to it. It\u2019s always good fun.\u201d<\/p>\n
Welsby: \u201cI won\u2019t say senior, but I\u2019ve been around enough to get used to the coaching staff. If you don\u2019t know Waney, he\u2019s pretty daunting. You\u2019ve got to be on the ball and train hard, be physical and look for what he wants you to do. But now I know him and what he wants, I don\u2019t have to overthink it and can enjoy it.\u201d<\/p>\n
Williams: \u201cIt\u2019s good. There will be new additions, but we\u2019ve been building, setting standards for a couple of years now. I want mid-season Tests because I love playing for England, but we\u2019ve been playing France and they have not been ultra beneficial, with blowout scores. Half the players aren\u2019t there anyway and they\u2019ve not reflected our form at the back end of seasons so I don\u2019t think we should do it.\u201d<\/p>\n
Williams: \u201cI\u2019d go Morgan Knowles. He\u2019s great to play alongside but then he\u2019s just really quiet, relaxed, keeps himself to himself. He knows who he is, says what he needs to say. But when he plays, he\u2019s like a terminator.\u201d<\/p>\n
Welsby: \u201cThe whole thing. That first game is going to be massive. I don\u2019t think you can look past it. It\u2019s been such a long time coming now, I almost can\u2019t wait to get it get out of the way. When you get a result, you\u2019re going to have friendships for life. That\u2019s one thing that drives us: it\u2019s not just the amazing history we\u2019re going to create, it\u2019s the memories \u2013 and what we\u2019re going to do when we celebrate.\u201d<\/p>\n