{"id":402258,"date":"2026-02-01T12:25:23","date_gmt":"2026-02-01T12:25:23","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/402258\/"},"modified":"2026-02-01T12:25:23","modified_gmt":"2026-02-01T12:25:23","slug":"my-relationship-with-world-rugby-couldnt","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/402258\/","title":{"rendered":"My relationship with World Rugby couldn\u2019t…"},"content":{"rendered":"

Rassie Erasmus has been talking for around 45 minutes, sat in the boardroom of South Africa [SA] Rugby\u2019s offices north of Cape Town, addressing more immediate topics \u2013 Scott Robertson\u2019s firing<\/a> as New Zealand coach, England\u2019s form, the state of his relationship with World Rugby \u2013 but also deeper subjects, like the build-up to a Test when he told those around him he would step down if South Africa went on to lose.<\/p>\n

So, it feels like a good time to ask something a little lighter, about an anecdote told by Percy Montgomery, his former Springbok teammate, on a podcast earlier this year, revealing that Erasmus does not like fruit and that the squad would light-heartedly hide bananas in his team blazer as a prank.<\/p>\n

\u201cIf one day I was in the army and they captured me, and they want me to talk,\u201d Erasmus begins to answer. \u201cDon\u2019t put a gun there [on the table]. Just put a fruit.\u201d<\/p>\n

He is not the only Erasmus affected by fructophobia. His youngest daughter wanted to tease him about it by putting a fruit in front of him, but had to do so wearing a glove, \u201cbecause she also cannot touch it.\u201d His grandfather was the same. \u201cIt\u2019s a texture thing, that you can\u2019t handle it.\u201d<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

What does this have to do with the Springboks? Nothing, really. It is, however, one of a few examples during our conversation that there is often more to Erasmus than meets the eye. More depth beyond his social media posts, with the one of the latest offerings being an AI video<\/a> of his attack coach, Tony Brown, in a scene from the film \u2018The Wolf of Wall Street\u2019 where the character Jordan Belfort informs the office \u201cI\u2019m not fucking leaving\u201d. It was Erasmus\u2019s way of confirming that Brown, under contract until after the next World Cup, will not be returning to New Zealand to replace Robertson.<\/p>\n

\u201cI haven\u2019t mastered [AI]. That was the first attempt,\u201d Erasmus says, smiling broadly. \u201cI just was frustrated and thought we can\u2019t put something out there, and also thought we couldn\u2019t put him on the spot because Tony didn\u2019t say it officially, he just told me. So I thought we can put it in a way where it was just fun.\u201d<\/p>\n

While he would prefer to \u201ckeep quiet\u201d about the circumstances regarding Robertson\u2019s departure until knowing the full story, Erasmus does offer this. \u201cI think he’s a great coach. You don\u2019t win six or seven Super Rugby titles without being a great coach. So, I’m sorry for him. I was surprised that it happened.\u201d<\/p>\n

England are South Africa\u2019s next opponents in July, although the noise this week suggests that the Springboks will try to line up a warm-up fixture in advance. England are hoping that by July they will be Six Nations champions, and while Erasmus will not go as far as to offer a prediction for the championship, there is admiration there for England\u2019s 11-Test winning run. \u201cThey are the real thing now.\u201d<\/p>\n

Tom Curry is \u201ca tough bastard\u201d. Maro Itoje \u201chas always been a guy that disrupts your play\u201d. Tommy Freeman, Fin and Marcus Smith are all mentioned when discussing how England have \u201cso many different\u201d players within their squad. \u201cI just think they\u2019ve got a nice balance. There is grunt and power and flair. They\u2019re impressive,\u201d he explains. His description of Henry Pollock as \u201con the scene\u201d is inadvertently perfect given Pollock\u2019s current grip on English rugby. And the Pom Squad, England\u2019s version of South Africa\u2019s heavy artillery arriving off the bench en masse? He seems genuinely thrilled.<\/p>\n

\u201cI think it\u2019s lekka when people stop analysing what\u2019s wrong and what\u2019s right, if things are within the laws. You adapt to it and kind of embrace it. It\u2019s a nice feeling. Not because you feel when everybody\u2019s criticised us at that stage that we\u2019re now being proven right, it\u2019s not that. I\u2019m glad that people are trying to not find a problem with that.<\/p>\n

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\u201cThey might find something different. They might go with four forwards and four backs, and then I might look at that and think \u2018that might work\u2019. We\u2019re all stealing from each other and learning from each other. None of us have all the answers.\u201d<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

This amenable version of Erasmus obviously marks a change from the coach being suspended by World Rugby twice in two years for his opinions on match officials. I ask whether it is fair to say his relationship with the governing body is at an all-time high. He responds: \u201cThere was a stage where it couldn\u2019t get worse!\u201d It took conversations with Eddie Jones, the former England head coach, and Nigel Owens, the former referee, along with hiring another former referee in Jaco Peyper to be a laws advisor, to give him a different perspective.<\/p>\n

\u201cI don\u2019t think I did something really bad there, but I was very selfishly driving a South African narrative. I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve massively changed, but sometimes you say in the long-term, what is going to work out for the best? In my opinion and I hope in World Rugby\u2019s opinion, you\u2019re getting better at trying to understand how other things work. You can\u2019t always go upstream. Somewhere you are going to get tired of that.\u201d<\/p>\n

Why, having become the first coach to win two Rugby World Cups \u2013 even if he was technically director of rugby in 2023 \u2013 was Erasmus still here when most people would have walked off into the sunset. And which is tougher; turning the Springboks around in 2018 from their lowest ebb, or successfully regenerating the side as so many of those double World Cup-winners enter their mid-30s and face retirement. Here\u2019s Erasmus on the first part.<\/p>\n

\u201cThe honest answer, and you\u2019re going to think I\u2019m just saying it, is I really just enjoy watching the people of South Africa being happy,\u201d he begins. \u201cNo man, it was always frustrating when you couldn\u2019t make it work. Hopefully the world sees sometimes that we\u2019ve got challenges here. For people it can feel like we\u2019re beating that drum over and over and over again. But if we don\u2019t beat that drum, then it is easy to fall back into a thing of \u2018oh, we\u2019ll just survive and worry about tomorrow\u2019.<\/p>\n

\u201cFor me, lifting a World Cup, having a photo, is awesome, man. It\u2019s really lekka. But it\u2019s much nicer to walk into a mall on a Friday and see everyone in Springbok jerseys. People sing the songs and they know Siya [Kolisi], but they also know Sacha [Feinberg-Mngomezulu]. Frans Malherbe can walk into a tavern in Despatch and people know him. That part I love. Hopefully people will tell you that the glamorous part, it\u2019s besides the point for me. It\u2019s that feeling that everything is going alright.\u201d<\/p>\n

That is certainly a departure from when Springbok supporters \u201cburned the jerseys and they didn\u2019t want to see you\u201d, a memory that seems to have stuck with him. Maintaining standards, securing those structures for long-term success, gives him the most satisfaction, and the roots of that date back to his time as technical specialist for SA Rugby back in the early 2010s before he left to join Munster.<\/p>\n

\u201cIf you don\u2019t have things sorted out at the bottom, but then you have success at the top, it\u2019s almost luck. Then when the boat sinks at the top, you have to reengineer the whole thing. Not just the players, but the culture, the work ethic. At some point, the Springboks will lose and will lose a lot. I mean some time in the future, hopefully in 2080. But at some point they are going to lose and they\u2019re going to go, how do we get this back on track? And then if you don\u2019t have something to fall back on\u2026 the challenge for us as SA Rugby is actually we\u2019re doing pretty well now, but say all of a sudden it goes pear-shaped, instead of reinventing, we just have to fix it. Add in an Under-23 tournament, or change this academy setup. The challenge is to foresee the problems.\u201d<\/p>\n

As for that 2018 versus now question, South Africa during that first Rugby Championship under Erasmus were \u201cthrashed\u201d by Argentina \u2013 his words \u2013 and then lost to Australia in Brisbane, creating a conundrum when they travelled to face the All Blacks in Wellington. Erasmus as a head coach has never lost three games in a row, at any level. \u201cAnd I remember going to New Zealand and thinking if we lost three in a row, I would sort of lose self-belief.\u201d<\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

He continues: \u201cI think I said in that week, \u2018well, I\u2019ll go if we don\u2019t beat the guys there\u2019. I\u2019m not saying it was ballsy or gutsy, but I really believed that. Full-on believed that.<\/p>\n

\u201cI think players see it in your eyes and the way you talk when you really believe in something. And they also feel it when you\u2019re bullshitting a bit and just saying something because you think it will be cool in the moment and motivate them. But if you really believe \u2018hey man, my plan does not work\u2019…\u201d<\/p>\n

When South Africa fell 12-0 behind inside the first 15 minutes, Erasmus remembers being \u201cin the coaches box and you think \u2018I\u2019m gone, it was nice and clever to say that\u2019\u201d. He recalls something his dad used to tell him. \u201cIf you love something so much and you realise you can\u2019t contribute anymore, and you\u2019ve got the guts to walk away, then you really love something.\u201d<\/p>\n

South Africa came back to win 36-34 in a classic, the first win in New Zealand since 2009, a remarkable reversal having lost 57-0 to the All Blacks the year before. That win injected belief back into the squad. A year later, in Yokohama, they were world champions.<\/p>\n

Will all of those players make it to Australia in 2027? \u201cThe answer is honestly I don\u2019t know,\u201d Erasmus admits. Pieter-Steph du Toit, the two-time world player of the year, has just had surgery on his other shoulder. Malherbe has not played since last April due to a back injury. \u201cWe don\u2019t know if he\u2019s going to come back\u201d.<\/p>\n

Kolisi, Eben Etzebeth, Cobus Reinach and Franco Mostert will all be in their mid-30s, so the challenge is on to rebuild. For a new wave led by Feinberg-Mngomezulu to take South Africa forward. He instantly reels off a list of prospects – Markus Muller, Ethan Adams, Haashim Pead, Riley Norton. Kai Pratt is an \u201c18 year old surfer, benches 200kg, carries like a demon\u201d \u2013 who could be in the mix in the next four years.<\/p>\n

Erasmus\u2019s innovations \u2013 the 7:1 bench, the traffic lights from the coaches box, calling scrums from a mark \u2013 grab attention, but listening to those coached by him, the secret to his success seems to be his honesty.<\/p>\n

Almost everything within the Springbok camp is out in the open, partly so information cannot be misinterpreted. Selections announced on a big screen in the team room. Barely any one-on-ones. Erasmus reckons he can only have held 20 in the past eight years. \u201cWhen you sit with a player alone, after a while you feel sorry for him, or want to tell him something to keep him positive. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s communication so much as being transparent. That\u2019s the secret.\u201d<\/p>\n

At times those messages can be excoriating, like the fall-out after losing to Ireland in the pool stages of the last World Cup: \u2018You are false. You pretend that you will die for your country but you will not\u2019. Watching it feels excruciating. Imagine being on the end of it.<\/p>\n

\u201cListen, I\u2019ve said many things that I regret. Imagine we didn\u2019t go on and win that World Cup. [People] would say \u2018you lost it there\u2019, you lost the team. You were shouting at people, you made it personal. There\u2019s many things I said that didn\u2019t work.\u201d That time, it did.<\/p>\n

A personal favourite clip of Erasmus is the sight of him overcome with emotion walking through the airport in Johannesburg after winning the World Cup, wiping away tears before looking up at the hundreds of fans packed into arrivals.<\/p>\n

\u201cHave you seen South Africa on a Friday before a Test match? How privileged are we to have that. We can give it back with a performance on Saturday. That\u2019s the drive.\u201d<\/p>\n

Erasmus is signed up until 2031. While he remains in post, the Springbok juggernaut will continue to rumble. Just do not offer him an apple.<\/p>\n

Photography by Lee-Ann Olwage for The Observer<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Rassie Erasmus has been talking for around 45 minutes, sat in the boardroom of South Africa [SA] Rugby\u2019s…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":402259,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[35],"tags":[5903,23451,4247,101,56,54,55],"class_list":["post-402258","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-rugby","tag-rugby","tag-rugby-union","tag-south-africa","tag-sports","tag-uk","tag-united-kingdom","tag-unitedkingdom"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/402258","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=402258"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/402258\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/402259"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=402258"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=402258"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=402258"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}