{"id":421763,"date":"2026-02-12T12:34:07","date_gmt":"2026-02-12T12:34:07","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/421763\/"},"modified":"2026-02-12T12:34:07","modified_gmt":"2026-02-12T12:34:07","slug":"you-call-it-a-shitshow-i-say-its-unforgivable-lisa-nandy-on-epstein-mandelson-and-labours-torrid-week-politics","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/421763\/","title":{"rendered":"\u2018You call it a shitshow \u2013 I say it\u2019s unforgivable\u2019: Lisa Nandy on Epstein, Mandelson and Labour\u2019s torrid week | Politics"},"content":{"rendered":"

It is the day after the night before. On Monday, Keir Starmer looked as if he was on his last political legs. At lunchtime, the Scottish Labour party leader Anas Sarwar called for his resignation<\/a>, but by the evening, the troops had rallied, and the prime minister had survived the worst. At least until the Gorton and Denton byelection<\/a> later this month.<\/p>\n

Now it\u2019s Tuesday afternoon and there\u2019s a hush around 100 Parliament St, home to the government\u2019s culture, media and sport department. It\u2019s hard to know whether this is its natural state (it\u2019s also the headquarters of HMRC), or whether the country\u2019s politicians and civil servants are in a collective state of shock.<\/p>\n

\u201cIt\u2019s been a quiet week!\u201d says Lisa Nandy<\/a>, the culture secretary, with a big smile. Nandy is surprisingly upbeat considering her government has just had a near-death experience after less than two years in power. She introduces me to Owen, her communications adviser. \u201cOwen is going to sit in, in case I say something really fucking stupid, and I have to apologise to the nation.\u201d Is that likely? \u201cErm, it\u2019s possible. It has been known.\u201d<\/p>\n

Actually, I\u2019ve always been soft left. I hate that phrase. It makes me sound like a jellyfish<\/p>\n

The Labour MP for Wigan shows me around her huge office. The culture is immediately obvious \u2013 a poster of Hamlet, a painting of a ginnel in Burnley and an illuminated text sculpture by the British artist Nathan Coley of George Bernard Shaw\u2019s quote, \u201cYou create what you will<\/a>.\u201d The sport is also obvious: propped on top of a model of Trafalgar Square\u2019s fourth plinth are a football and a rugby ball. The football belongs to Bury FC, whose financial collapse led to the establishment of the Independent Football Regulator, one of Nandy\u2019s proudest achievements at the DCMS.<\/p>\n

As for the media element of her title, apart from today\u2019s newspapers arranged on a table, it\u2019s otherwise not so visible. Critics have suggested the same could be said of her performance, at a time of BBC crises, online regulation battles and the scandal over sexualised AI images being created using Grok. She certainly seems happier talking about culture and sport.<\/p>\n

There\u2019s also a lovely framed photo on the wall of Tessa Jowell, who died in 2018. Jowell held the same office and was Nandy\u2019s mentor. \u201cThey say here she was the best culture secretary within living memory. I was her PPS [parliamentary private secretary] when I first came into parliament. I was a proper awkward sod on the backbenches.\u201d In what way? \u201cBack then, before all the Corbyn stuff started, I was the hard left of the Labour<\/a> party.\u201d There\u2019s a little poetic licence here. \u201cWe\u2019d just come out of government and there\u2019d been quite a narrow range of views at the top of the party. And I came in, and I was sort of throwing rocks at them, and Tessa said, \u2018Before you decide you hate us all and want to burn this place to the ground, why don\u2019t you come in and work with me, and see how it works?\u2019 And it was magic.\u201d Nandy has never struck me as a political pyromaniac. A moment later, she admits she\u2019s indulging herself. \u201cActually, I\u2019ve always been soft left. I hate that phrase. It makes me sound like a jellyfish.\u201d<\/p>\n

Nandy talks to lecturers on strike at the University of Manchester in 2020. Photograph: Christopher Thomond\/The Guardian<\/p>\n

Perhaps it was inevitable that Nandy, 46, would end up in parliament. She was raised in a political, high-achieving family and realised you could make the world a better place through politics (her maternal grandfather was the liberal peer Lord Byers; her father, Dipak Nandy, is an esteemed Marxist academic who helped write the Race Relations Act; her mother, Luise Fitzwalter, was one of the first female TV producers at Granada). Today, Nandy lives in Wigan with her partner, Andy Collis, a public relations consultant, and their 10-year-old son.<\/p>\n

As a mixed-race girl she was shaped, growing up, by the racism her family faced; as a daughter of divorced parents she understood the prejudice against single parents; and as a pupil at a comprehensive school she saw how limited opportunities were for children less privileged than her. After studying politics at Newcastle University, she worked for Centrepoint, the charity that supports homeless young people, before moving to the Children\u2019s Society. She has represented Wigan since 2010, when she was selected to run from an all-women shortlist. Labour had just lost power, and she had to wait another 15 years before she could put her principles into practice.<\/p>\n

The Labour party is famous for its ability to self-destruct. But its brief time in government has been something else \u2013 U-turns, financial scandals, resignations, broken tax promises, attempts to strip benefits from disabled people and pensioners, accusations of trying to out-Reform Reform, all topped off with the Peter Mandelson scandal. It was always clear Starmer was politically inexperienced, but not that he was so leaden-footed. When Starmer appointed Mandelson as US ambassador, he knew Mandelson had continued his friendship with the sex offender Jeffrey Epstein<\/a> after Epstein\u2019s conviction \u2013 and also, of course, that he had been forced to resign twice before from Labour governments. Now it has emerged that Mandelson, who is being investigated by the police<\/a>, may have been passing confidential government business information to Epstein.<\/p>\n

Despite the promise of change, the Labour government looks little different from recent chaotic and deceitful Tory governments. It\u2019s a shitshow, isn\u2019t it, I say. \u201cYou call it a shitshow, I say it\u2019s unforgivable,\u201d says Nandy. She pauses. \u201cI want to get the words right because it\u2019s really important. It does look to people outside that we\u2019re more interested in ourselves and less interested in preventing chaos. What was laid bare in the Epstein files is that there are a group of people in this country and across the world \u2013 powerful, wealthy people, mostly men \u2013 who control the system, look after their own interests, look after each other and screw everyone else. And that has been happening in plain sight for a really long time. Look across this country at so many things, whether it\u2019s the taxation system, or housing or water or energy, the opportunities people have, the voice that people have, and people say the system is rigged for a reason. Because it is. It works against the interests of most people in most parts of the country.\u201d<\/p>\n

In the end, she says, it\u2019s all about power \u2013 the unfair distribution of it, and the abuse of it. On a good day, Labour will talk about the redistribution of wealth. But, she says, it has to go deeper than that. \u201cAt times in our history in the Labour movement we\u2019ve understood that our job is not just about redistributing wealth, it\u2019s about who holds power.\u201d And now? \u201cI think we\u2019ve forgotten it.\u201d<\/p>\n

Nandy on stage at the Labour Party conference in Brighton, 2021. Photograph: Gareth Fuller\/PA<\/p>\n

How have things become so bad so quickly? \u201cWe\u2019ve not done enough, and this has got to be the moment of reckoning where we say not just what are we here for, but who are we here for?\u201d Who is she here for? Nandy points out of the window. \u201cThe ones who aren\u2019t in here, the ones who didn\u2019t make it, can\u2019t make it. We talk about people who feel left behind. They don\u2019t feel left behind \u2013 they have been routinely disregarded and disrespected. And we\u2019ve got to change that.\u201d<\/p>\n

But hasn\u2019t Labour itself left these people behind? The chancellor, Rachel Reeves, said this is \u201cnot the party for people on benefits\u201d. Nandy thinks Reeves was clumsy with her language and what she meant was that Labour is not just a party for people on benefits. But she doesn\u2019t seem wholly convinced. \u201cPeople haven\u2019t just felt disrespected; they have been disrespected. Not just in the things that people go out and say that are crass, but look at the arts and culture funding we spend on our great national institutions \u2013 virtually all of them are in London. So that means we\u2019re effectively saying to the whole country, bar one small part, you have no art and culture, you have nothing to contribute. Which is why one of the first things I did when we got into government was say: that\u2019s got to change. So arts funding has had the biggest uplift in a decade, and it\u2019s going straight into communities all over the country, not just the major cities.\u201d<\/p>\n

She says a government needs hope and vision to succeed. I tell her I agree, but I don\u2019t think Labour offers either at the moment. The government seems angry rather than hopeful \u2013 angry at Peter Mandelson, angry at asylum seekers arriving on small boats, angry at Labour voters defecting to Reform, angry at the way the country has changed. What did she think of Starmer\u2019s island of strangers speech<\/a>? \u201cI found it jarring because my dad used to debate with Enoch Powell on TV shows. What I think [Starmer] was trying to say is something I would express very differently. In this country, one of the biggest challenges we face is that we\u2019ve lost the ability to understand one another.\u201d<\/p>\n

Nandy \u2026 \u2018I\u2019ve always hated populism.\u2019 Photograph: Alicia Canter\/The Guardian; Assistant, Ryan Prince<\/p>\n

If she were going to revamp Starmer to make him more appealing to the electorate, where would she start? She looks at me, aghast.<\/p>\n

\u201cYou know he is an actual person? You can\u2019t revamp a person.\u201d<\/p>\n

OK, I say, customise him.<\/p>\n

Her eyes widen even more. \u201cAre you saying customise? Flipping heck, Simon, if I went to Keir and told him \u2018I\u2019m going to customise and revamp you,\u2019 he\u2019d tell me to fuck off.\u201d<\/p>\n

Seriously, I say, how does he or Labour have to change to win back the people who voted them in?<\/p>\n

Two things, she says. \u201cEvery day we have to get up and say: how do we rebalance this country in favour of ordinary people? How do we break up this network of people who\u2019ve had a grip on our systems, institutions and opportunities for too long? We\u2019ve got to be prepared to think big enough to change things, not just tinker around the edges.\u201d<\/p>\n

Second, she says, Labour politicians must be better role models. \u201cWe\u2019ve got to behave like the country we want to see. We want a country where people listen to one another, understand one another. We want a country where women are treated properly, with real respect and power. We want a country that has the intellectual curiosity to seek to understand people who come from different walks of life.\u201d<\/p>\n

But, she says, British democracy has never faced a greater threat. \u201cWe all get out of bed every morning determined to try to turn things around in this country. And we are staring down the barrel of a fascist government for the first time in British history. We are heavily aware of the responsibility on us all to sort this out, and you saw it playing out in real time yesterday with the cabinet all rallying round and making sure we didn\u2019t do something utterly stupid for the country.\u201d<\/p>\n

How are they going to win back lifelong Labour voters like me who have lost the faith? \u201cI\u2019ll give you my starter for 10. If you look across the political landscape, do you really believe there\u2019s a group of people who will genuinely be capable of making the fundamental change the country needs?\u201d But it\u2019s not good enough to tell me that all the other options are worse. That\u2019s taking voters for granted.<\/p>\n

I tell her I\u2019m sick of getting messages telling me that if we don\u2019t vote Labour we\u2019ll get a Reform government. \u201cWell, I would say get off social media.\u201d It isn\u2019t coming from social media \u2013 it\u2019s coming from Labour party emails. She laughs. \u201cOh! I just get the ones asking for money.\u201d These are the ones asking for money, I say.<\/p>\n

If she was 18 today, who does she think she\u2019d vote for? \u201cLabour,\u201d she says instantly. I say I don\u2019t think she would, because Labour doesn\u2019t offer young people the hope she says is vital. I bet you\u2019d vote Green, I say. She looks appalled. \u201cNo, I wouldn\u2019t. Not in a million years. Hand on heart. I\u2019ve been very open with you about what needs to change. But I\u2019ve always hated populism. It stokes people\u2019s anger and gives it nowhere to go.\u201d<\/p>\n

Five minutes left, Owen says.<\/p>\n

So what\u2019s the answer?<\/p>\n

Nandy (centre) touring What More UK, a business manufacturing products from recycled plastic, with Keir Starmer in 2022. Photograph: Christopher Furlong\/Getty Images<\/p>\n

OK, says Nandy, here are examples of redistributing power. She cites an initiative from the DCMS: the youth hubs it has set up where young people make all the decisions. \u201cWe\u2019re building youth clubs, investing in youth workers and a generation of young people. It\u2019s not going to be us who say what you need, it\u2019s not going to be a group of older men in the town hall either \u2013 the stipulation of the funding is that it has to be young people driving it. We\u2019re putting people back in charge of their own lives and their own destiny.\u201d See, she says, that\u2019s putting power in people\u2019s hands.<\/p>\n

OK, three minutes, Owen says.<\/p>\n

\u201cI\u2019m just trying to give my pitch to the nation!\u201d she shouts. Nandy says the party has got to stop obsessing about individuals and remember politics is a team game. \u201cWe\u2019re the most guilty of it in the Labour party. Since I came in 16 years ago, I don\u2019t remember a single week going by without some discussion of the individuals who are going to ride in and save us. That\u2019s not how politics works. It takes teams, it takes a movement.\u201d<\/p>\n

She talks about the time her father spent with leaders of the civil rights movement, and what he learned from them. \u201cI remember him saying there were 14 people in the room when \u2018I have a dream\u2019 was written and Martin Luther King was not one of them. It takes a movement to create change, and I think we\u2019ve forgotten that. I said as much to the prime minister this week. It\u2019s not just incumbent on him, it\u2019s all of us.\u201d<\/p>\n

As for the party itself, it\u2019s got to be broader and more tolerant, she says. \u201cWe\u2019ve got to step up and sort this out. In terms of how the culture has got to change, we\u2019ve got to be more open and porous and respectful of different points of view.\u201d And, she says, the plotting has got to stop. \u201cQuite a few of us in the cabinet have read that we\u2019re on manoeuvres. I\u2019ve not read anything about me recently, but there has been lots about others.\u201d In 2020 she stood for the leadership and finished third when Starmer romped home with 56% of the vote. Is she really not on manoeuvres now? \u201cNo! God no!\u201d So why did she do the interview today? \u201cI think there are things the country needs to hear from us; they need to understand that we see and we acknowledge our mistakes.\u201d<\/p>\n

Nandy \u2026 \u2018I\u2019ve been criticised for not being a cellist.\u2019 Photograph: Alicia Canter\/The Guardian; Assistant, Ryan Prince<\/p>\n

What about her own mistakes? Such as, she asks. Critics say she has been invisible in her media brief, and I tell her I can quote from a satirical column by the parliamentary sketch writer Robert Hutton. You might not like it, I say.<\/p>\n

\u201cOh, it\u2019s fine.\u201d<\/p>\n

So I read on. \u201cI am launching a campaign to bring back the Department of Culture \u2026 The question of who should lead this revived government department is of course up to the prime minister. Some would point to Lisa Nandy, currently minister without any discernible portfolio, though there\u2019s no evidence that she would be interested.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cWhat does it mean?\u201d<\/p>\n

That you haven\u2019t done much, I suggest.<\/p>\n

\u201cWhy, just out of interest? Is it because he doesn\u2019t agree with what we\u2019re doing? I\u2019ve had criticisms about not telling the media what they can and can\u2019t write, and what they can and can\u2019t do. If you look at some of my social media feeds, it\u2019s why haven\u2019t I shut down GB News or why haven\u2019t I shut down the BBC? I\u2019ve been criticised for being too visible when it comes to the BBC.\u201d<\/p>\n

Does it bother you? \u201cI\u2019m not interested. Since I got appointed to this role I have been routinely briefed against. I\u2019ve been criticised for spending too little time in London and too much time in other parts of the country. I\u2019ve been criticised for being too outspoken for some of the things that have happened in the media and too invisible about the media. I\u2019ve been criticised for not being a cellist, and for coming from Wigan. I kid you not!\u201d For not being a cellist? \u201cLet me just finish this, because I think it\u2019s really important. I\u2019m not here for those people. I\u2019m here for the young people for whom we\u2019re rebuilding opportunities and trust and the chance to live those richer, larger lives in every part of the country. I\u2019m here for everybody in this country who\u2019s made the most astonishing contribution to our national story and isn\u2019t seen, heard or valued. I\u2019m here for the football fans who\u2019ve watched the thing they most care about taken from them because we\u2019ve allowed a group of people with wealth and power to destroy the things that really matter. I wake up every day and fight for them, and I don\u2019t give a stuff what people like Rob Hutton think. There you go. There\u2019s your headline.\u201d<\/p>\n

Ten minutes have passed since Owen counted us down to 30 seconds. Nandy\u2019s got an appointment with the deputy prime minister, David Lammy. \u201cCan I be late for David?\u201d she asks Owen. She says she agrees that the government has got to work on its message of hope, and suggests that Labour hasn\u2019t really got used to being in power yet. \u201cOne of the challenges is going from opposition, where all you can do is rail against the system, to government.\u201d<\/p>\n

Does she think the government will survive? \u201cYes! You saw it yesterday. We all stepped up, and you can also feel that across the parliamentary Labour party. They want us to succeed, but they want us to be bigger and bolder. One thing I really do think is we came into office with so much that is broken, including people\u2019s faith in politics to make things better. There was so much to fix. The challenge is that I think we\u2019ve started to behave like a government of national emergency and not a Labour government. We\u2019ve got to wear our colours on our sleeves again, because people need to know why we, in particular, are the answer to their problems.\u201d<\/p>\n

Do you have an opinion on the issues raised in this article? If you would like to submit a response of up to 300 words by email to be considered for publication in our letters<\/a> section, please click here<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"It is the day after the night before. On Monday, Keir Starmer looked as if he was on…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":421764,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[49,50,51,47,52,48],"class_list":["post-421763","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-headlines","tag-headlines","tag-news","tag-top-news","tag-top-stories","tag-topnews","tag-topstories"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/421763","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=421763"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/421763\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/421764"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=421763"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=421763"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=421763"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}