{"id":667922,"date":"2026-07-01T12:38:09","date_gmt":"2026-07-01T12:38:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/667922\/"},"modified":"2026-07-01T12:38:09","modified_gmt":"2026-07-01T12:38:09","slug":"i-winged-it-for-17-years-and-continue-to-wing-it-now-joe-marler-on-rugby-retirement-and-role-play-slang-england-rugby-union-team","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/uk\/667922\/","title":{"rendered":"\u2018I winged it for 17 years and continue to wing it now\u2019: Joe Marler on rugby, retirement and role-play slang | England rugby union team"},"content":{"rendered":"

As England prepare for their first match in the Nations Championship<\/a> against South Africa and The Celebrity Traitors returns to our screens, Joe Marler \u2013 recently central to both \u2013 joins us for a chat about player welfare, Stephen Fry\u2019s slang and the importance of men looking out for each other.<\/p>\n

How much did you plan your exit route from rugby? Did your post-rugby career just fall into place?
\u201cI would say my post-rugby experiences have followed my rugby experiences in the sense that I winged it for 17 years and continue to wing it now. There\u2019s a distinct lack of planning on my behalf. I\u2019m just very fortunate that I\u2019ve got some lovely people around me who are far more intelligent and attentive to detail, and navigate me in the right ways.\u201d<\/p>\n

You can\u2019t wing being a world-class prop. You must have known you were very, very good.
\u201cI was half-decent at what I did, but I was world-class at making other people bad at it. It was a combination of being too lazy to get any better and knowing my limit. A proper player, like Owen Farrell, loved the sport, did everything and it became his life. I was more interested in having fun and enjoying myself. I hit my ceiling and went: \u2018Well, I\u2019m not really gonna get much better than this. I know what I can do and what I can\u2019t, and I just continue to wing it until people find out.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n

So, you were a disrupter, stopping other people doing what they want to do?
\u201cMy ex-teammates and my employers would probably still use that word to describe me.\u201d<\/p>\n

Joe Marler played for England 95 times. Photograph: Shaun Botterill\/Getty Images<\/p>\n

You kept an unusually low profile on The Celebrity Traitors and nearly won it.
\u201cI had an advantage in that most of them didn\u2019t know who I was, so they semi-forgot I was there, which bought me a couple of days\u2019 grace from being killed, then I was fortunate on the days I won shields, so it all fell into place. A hybrid of being dumb and being able to play dumber than I am got me as far as it did \u2013 plus my competitive nature. I seemed to be one of the few people actually interested in trying to win, as opposed to a lot of the chin-wagging: \u2018Oh, darling, do you remember that party we went to?\u2019 \u2018Hang on,\u2019 I thought \u2018we\u2019re trying to play a bloody game here.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n

It was a shame we didn\u2019t get to see those fascinating celebrity conversations.
\u201cWell, I think they\u2019d be fascinating to the point of how mundane they were! There\u2019s all these superstars and they sit down having a chat like normal friends catching up. One that I would have loved them to show was a brilliant conversation over lunch off-screen between Cat Burns and Stephen Fry about different LGBTQ slang and role-play names. I sat there being educated but trying to chip in as much as I could. Cat was saying: \u2018Oh, you\u2019d be more of a dom femme.\u2019 I\u2019m like: \u2018What\u2019s the dom femme?\u2019 We talked about pillow princesses, all this different language.\u201d<\/p>\n

You\u2019d be a bear, wouldn\u2019t you?
\u201cOne hundred per cent, guaranteed! I\u2019m fully aware of how much of a bear I am, so I can throw him up, lean into my big bear fellow. But I was just thinking: \u2018Wow, this is brilliant, just such a collision of different cultures and worlds.\u2019 That needs to be the spin-off show: the other conversations that went on. It was great fun.\u201d<\/p>\n

You were extremely perceptive on Traitors, while some really academic stars couldn\u2019t see what you did. Looking back, were there rugby teammates who wanted you or the team to fail?
\u201cWhat I found would often happen was the senior players would get together, have a coffee, and if there\u2019s stuff going on that needs addressing, we\u2019d all be aligned. Then someone would chirp up: \u2018Why don\u2019t you go and tell the coaches that we\u2019re training too hard?\u2019 They knew full well I\u2019d take that and run with it because it was in my nature to be spiky and an asshole, to be honest. So I\u2019d go and address it with the coaches, say: \u2018We all think \u2026\u2019 And then look around and there\u2019d be no one else there.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u2018A hybrid of being dumb and being able to play dumber than I am got me as far as it did,\u2019 says Marler of The Traitors. Photograph: BBC<\/p>\n

As performance director for Team England Rugby, do you talk to players about post-rugby careers, as not everyone can wing it?
\u201cOf course. I just wish I\u2019d had some perspective earlier on in my England career. I wouldn\u2019t have wasted energy worrying about unnecessary things that I couldn\u2019t control, that led to me not enjoying environments as much as I should. I was in camp the other day trying to get that message across. When you\u2019re in it, the rugby world feels like the biggest thing in the world and all eyes are on you. Then when you\u2019re out of it, you realise 70% of the country don\u2019t even know what rugby is! Their first question is always: \u2018Did you play rugby union or rugby league?\u2019 I wish I\u2019d have known that earlier, because it would\u2019ve freed me up. Yes, you\u2019re in a pressured environment, but you\u2019re doing something that you love, that\u2019s ultimately for entertainment and fun. Enjoy it.\u201d<\/p>\n

Most England players haven\u2019t had more than a couple of weeks off in the last year. Where is the player welfare in the calendar?
\u201cI feel really sorry for the new generation. In some of my seasons, I\u2019d be playing 33-35 games, a long slog, and then at the end I\u2019d have a tour. I\u2019d get so excited, not just pulling on an England shirt, but going to South Africa, playing three Tests against these massive units. Yes, it was hard work but it was that traditional touring experience, spending four weeks with 30, 40 lads. It\u2019s not that the Test matches were meaningless, but whether we won 3-0 or lost 2-1 was irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. It\u2019s the life experience, seeing a new country, a different culture, an opportunity to develop younger guys in an environment that doesn\u2019t necessarily count for anything, like a World Cup. But now they\u2019ve brought in this Nations Championship instead.\u201d<\/p>\n

The idea was to turn end-of-season tours into competitive games, but now England have three games in three continents.
\u201cI get it from a financial point of view, and trying to make the global calendar more aligned, but this team has to fly to South Africa, play a Test match at altitude, come home, spend the week in Liverpool and play Fiji at Everton, then fly over to Argentina. What?! All the best with that! It\u2019s a work in progress, that\u2019s the best politician\u2019s answer I can give. Players want to play for England, to experience as much as they can. Ideally, they\u2019re doing it with less travel and more rest. But that\u2019s a fight between players, country and club. When you have two masters, it\u2019s quite a battle. I\u2019m trying my hardest for them.\u201d<\/p>\n

Shouldn\u2019t players be able to say to England: \u2018I have a wife and three kids so don\u2019t want to go away for a month. Feel free to pick me in October\u2019?
\u201cThat\u2019s the alternative route and I actively encourage them to make those decisions. I got to that point in my career. I stood down in 2016 because I lost the plot and needed a break. And then again, in 2018, when I was fried. It takes a bit of courage to go: \u2018Actually, I need to have a break.\u2019 They worry they won\u2019t get picked again but, if I turned to a head coach and said: \u2018Mate, I\u2019m knackered, I\u2019m struggling. I need to stay at home, rest, recuperate and be ready to go rock October,\u2019 and he said: \u2018Oh, you\u2019re soft, I\u2019m not having it,\u2019 I wouldn\u2019t want to work under him anyway. I know that\u2019s easier said than done. That\u2019s why they need people fighting their battles for them.\u201d<\/p>\n

Joe Marler is encouraging men to give each other more compliments. Photograph: Jacamo<\/p>\n

You\u2019re big on men\u2019s mental health and feeling more comfortable to say what you think. Does that explain why you\u2019re \u2018giving the nod\u2019 on Jacamo\u2019s TV ads now?
\u201cI\u2019ve never been a style icon. I\u2019m a shorts and a T-shirt man and the bigger I got, everything in your everyday high street shops was a bit of a squeeze. So the \u2018Get the nod<\/a>\u2019 campaign just appealed to me, encouraging men to compliment other men. Saying: \u2018That\u2019s a really nice top, mate,\u2019 is a rarity. Blokes wonder what\u2019s coming next. But it makes them feel good about themselves, so why don\u2019t we do it more? It\u2019s important.\u201d<\/p>\n

Your profile is way bigger now than it ever was. You can\u2019t go to your local shops or take the dog for a walk without strangers saying: \u2018Morning, Joe,\u2019 now. Do you like that? \u201cIf I\u2019m on my own, I\u2019m more than happy. I love meeting new people, hearing their stories. But it does grind me a bit when I\u2019m with my kids. It\u2019s not fair on them. People go: \u2018Well, you sold your soul, deal with it.\u2019 But I\u2019m also entitled to say: \u2018Piss off. Not today. I\u2019m with my kids.\u2019 At Camp Bestival my eldest daughter, Maggie, turned to me on the second day and just quietly, said: \u2018Do you think today, maybe we could just have you, rather than you stopping every five minutes, say yes to a photo.\u2019 She was right. I\u2019d got caught up in it all and forgotten she\u2019s there behind me.\u201d<\/p>\n

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