The Pogues earned a reputation early on as a ferocious live band. What does it feel like to be in the middle of that whirlwind? VerulamiumParkRanger
Spider Stacy [co-founder, tin whistle, vocals]: Last Christmas, we did a secret gig in a pub in Nunhead [in London] and it reminded me of those early days when we were so close to the audience, who were practically on top of each other. The venue that most sticks in my mind is the Hope & Anchor [in Islington, London]. We played there to about 35 people [in 1983], but when we went back a month later the match had been struck and it was absolutely roaring. After that, at gigs, there were clothes landing on stage \u2026<\/p>\n
James Fearnley [co-founder, accordion]: Medical equipment, crutches \u2026<\/p>\n
Stacy: On the reunion tour, someone in Sydney threw a prosthetic leg. It still had a boot on.<\/p>\n
On the first single [1984\u2019s Dark Streets of London], Shane MacGowan talks about his experience of electroconvulsive therapy. Did he ever talk about what effect it had on him? Benko<\/p>\n
Fearnley, Stacy and Finer in Sydney in April. Photograph: Ian Laidlaw<\/p>\n
Stacy: He didn\u2019t go into detail. As a teenager, it was probably enormously distressing, but Shane had a mordant humour about it. That single drew on personal experience, but an aspect of his genius was to see the unseen and what goes on in people\u2019s hearts. Walking down the street with Shane, he\u2019d be dishing out pocketfuls of change \u2013 banknotes if he had them \u2013 to homeless people. He was always aware that \u201cthere but for the grace of God go I\u201d. A lot of Irish people had come over to London as builders, or whatever, and fallen into the abyss of drink and chronic unemployment, and there was a lot of anti-Irish prejudice. It could get nasty. Then attitudes became less hostile. I don\u2019t know how much that had to do with us, but I\u2019ve a feeling that we played a part.<\/p>\n
My favourite Pogues\u2019 song is Summer in Siam. Do you each have your own? Philip_Larkin_Fan Stacy: The Broad Majestic Shannon<\/a>. Such a beautiful song about people leaving Ireland and looking back, but it\u2019s so evocative about love and loss. As with so many of Shane\u2019s songs, it speaks to everyone.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n Listen to The Broad Majestic Shannon.<\/p>\n What was the process when Shane brought a new song to the band? MissIdahoPotato Were you part of the panel discussion with Noel Hill [in which the Irish musician described the Pogues\u2019 music as a \u201cterrible abortion of words\u201d] and what was the reaction? RiverboatCaptain Fearnley: But a gorgeous, fantastic concertina player. He\u2019d be most welcome at our shows.<\/p>\n The Pogues have been through so many changes and challenges. Is there a particular period that you think of as the peak, when the songwriting was soaring and the behavioural and substance issues were under control? RadioFreeNewport<\/p>\n MacGowan (left) and Fearnley at the Vic theatre, Chicago, in July 1986. Photograph: Paul Natkin\/Getty Images<\/p>\n Stacy: Probably \u201986 to \u201988, until after If I Should Fall from Grace With God. It\u2019s pretty peak now \u2013 we\u2019ve no Shane, but we have the songs! \u2013 but the wheels always had an amount of wobble. Even at the peaks, you can run out of oxygen or a rope can get frayed.<\/p>\n Fearnley: Or like Jon Krakauer says in Into Thin Air, his book about Everest: you go into the death zone, where everything conspires to your demise.<\/p>\n How was your relationship with Shane after he left the Pogues in 1991 and how did the reunion come about? PalaceCeltic But both Jem [Finer, co-founder, banjo] and I played on the Shane MacGowan and the Popes album [1994\u2019s The Snake] and I saw Shane quite a lot over those years. In 2000, the band\u2019s accountant asked the promoter Simon Moran about a Pogues reunion. My understanding is that other promoters told him: \u201cGod no, don\u2019t go near.\u201d So Simon\u2019s very Mancunian response was to think: let\u2019s do it. It was fucking great. Then Shane went: \u201cI don\u2019t wanna do this any more. It was only meant to be one Christmas. It\u2019s been 14 years.\u201d<\/p>\n I saw a fabulous show in Osaka in the early 90s with Joe Strummer singing. Did that experience help to convince you that it was possible to carry on without Shane? Namelessreader<\/p>\n The Pogues with Joe Strummer (back row, second left) at the Ritz in New York City in November 1987. Photograph: Ebet Roberts\/Redferns<\/p>\n Stacy: Yes. Joe was a real shot in the arm because of his enthusiasm. When he\u2019d previously stood in for Phil Chevron<\/a> [guitarist and songwriter] on tours in the late 80s, Joe Sellotaped the chord sheets around the body of his guitar, then his eagle eyes would glance down and he\u2019d absorb a lot of information very swiftly. We didn\u2019t announce him. Joe just walked on stage and people thought: \u201cWho\u2019s that? Oh fuck \u2026!\u201d<\/p>\n Your band fell off my radar when Shane wasn\u2019t involved until I woke up hungover one morning in the early 90s and heard Tuesday Morning on the radio. What a great song. Do you regret not pushing on more without MacGowan? shedexile<\/p>\n Stacy: By the time we got to Pogue Mahone [1996], we\u2019d driven ourselves into the ground creatively and it increasingly wasn\u2019t the Pogues. We got dropped [by their record company]. I think there was just Jem, Andrew [Ranken, drums] and myself left, so we thought: \u201cNah.\u201d We\u2019d had our time.<\/p>\n How close did you get to writing or recording any new material with Shane in the 2001-14 era and do you have any plans for new releases? TheSeamenBand Was there ever a lyric where you told Shane he should probably change it? AngryTomato<\/p>\n Playing Sydney in April. Photograph: Ian Laidlaw<\/p>\n Stacy: No, and we never would have. The BBC asked Shane to change a line in the rereleased Fairytale of New York for Top of the Pops [in 1992] and he did. [Later, in 2020<\/a>, the BBC censored the song on Radio 1.] One thing that caught my eye was a guy saying that he loved the song, but hearing drunk guys bellowing: \u201cYou cheap, lousy faggot,\u201d every Christmas reminded him of being persecuted or beaten up for being gay. So I wasn\u2019t going to complain to the BBC. Then Laurence Fox chimed in on Twitter, saying: \u201cWouldn\u2019t it be nice if we sent the (proper) version to the top of the charts?\u201d and I replied: \u201cFuck off you little herrenvolk shite\u201d \u2013 a line from Brendan Behan\u2019s Borstal Boy \u2013 which went viral.<\/p>\n But we perform the original, bearing in mind that Phil Chevron was proudly gay in Ireland since 1977 and we had loads of gay friends and gay fans who had no problem with the lyric, because they understood the context. It\u2019s two people having a vile argument, flinging whatever abuse they can at each other. It\u2019s interesting that all the focus was on \u201cfaggot\u201d, but \u201cold slut on junk\u201d gets a complete pass.<\/p>\n In a TV special about the late Gerry Rafferty, one of his brothers remarked: \u201cAye, he was a rascal, but he was our rascal.\u201d Would you say Shane was your rascal? ShaunfromWigan<\/p>\n MacGowan in the 80s. Photograph: Brian Rasic\/Getty Images<\/p>\n Fearnley: Shane was rascality personified, but one of the most inspiring people I ever came across. The life I have lived because of him \u2026 jeez.<\/p>\n Stacy: There was so much going on in his head that he could get cantankerous, but I\u2019m sitting here in New Orleans because of Shane.<\/p>\n Fearnley: And I\u2019m in Los Angeles. In a way, I couldn\u2019t get further away from him, but in a weird way we\u2019re all manacled to Shane.<\/p>\n It\u2019s great to see a new generation of Irish bands like the Mary Wallopers and Lankum coming through. How much of an influence do you feel you have had? RaithRaver Stacy: There\u2019s so much great music coming out of Ireland. The first time I saw Lankum<\/a> was at Shane\u2019s 60th in Dublin. They did The Old Main Drag and I was mesmerised. Lisa O\u2019Neill<\/a> is a generational talent. One Leg One Eye<\/a> and \u00d8XN<\/a> are dragging some HP Lovecraftian God up from the nether depths. John Francis Flynn<\/a> is utterly fantastic. Mary Wallopers<\/a>. Junior Brother<\/a>. We\u2019ve been having a blast playing with some of these people and we\u2019ve got some huge talents performing with us now.<\/p>\n Fearnley: On stage, they\u2019ll tolerate this trio of 70-year-olds blithely fumbling around in the middle of people half our age. It\u2019s like taking uncle to the playground, but wonderful.<\/p>\n
Fearnley: Lorca\u2019s Novena, about Federico Garc\u00eda Lorca<\/a> [the 20th-century Spanish poet and playwright]. It\u2019s all about freedom of speech and expression.<\/p>\n
Fearnley: It depended on the song. When he came in with A Rainy Night in Soho<\/a>, we knew it was complete because he\u2019d dressed for the occasion. He had his nice suit on and these latticed sandals and had the whole thing in his head: \u201cYou play this; this little hook goes there.\u201d It was an amazing experience. Other times, he\u2019d have the tune and lyrics, but it could be infuriating having to wring the harmonic structure out of him. Then he\u2019d suddenly say: \u201cThat\u2019s how it\u2019s supposed to go.\u201d<\/p>\n
Stacy: When we went to Ireland for the first time [the band formed in London], we were invited on to RT\u00c9 radio for an audience Q&A with people like Noel Hill, an extremely accomplished concertina player who had very strong opinions about how Irish music should and shouldn\u2019t be played. The traditional Irish music establishment basically thought we were a bunch of chancers who didn\u2019t know what we were doing. It backfired because people like Christy Moore and Paddy Moloney from the Chieftains understood what we were trying to do and felt we\u2019d been shabbily treated. The Dubliners took to us like dogs to a bone, because they\u2019d had similar stick when they started. In the studio, we returned fire with fire. Then we titled an instrumental Planxty Noel Hill, which in that particular context means \u201cfuck off, Noel Hill\u201d.<\/p>\n
Stacy: Shane plainly didn\u2019t want to do it any more and his way of letting us know \u2013 which I think reflects really well on Shane \u2013 was to get drunk or fucked up. With hindsight, we should have suggested he take a year off, but we gallantly got Darryl [Hunt, bass] to tell him he was sacked. Shane\u2019s relieved response was: \u201cWhat took you so long?\u201d Then we all went out to dinner.<\/p>\n
Stacy: Shane came round to Jem\u2019s house, then Jem and Shane came to mine with the idea of writing new songs, but nothing came of it. We\u2019ve just done Gabrielle for Shane\u2019s tribute album [20th Century Paddy, released in November], but I don\u2019t think it would be right to do new original music. Possibly some Irish stuff. I haven\u2019t given any thought to it.<\/p>\n
Fearnley: What took them so long?!<\/p>\n