Lez Brunch this Saturday<\/a>, where the theme is chosen family and friendships. How has she reclaimed queer acceptance and friendship in her life when she spent the period after the show\u2019s airing hiding,\u00a0afraid of the \u201caggression\u201d she was starting to face in her day-to-day life? The Blade sat down with Papa to discuss the impact of being on reality TV as a queer person, how that\u2019s affected how she interacts with queer spaces, and how she approaches maintaining a tight, core chosen family amidst a difficult period of self-doubt that followed the release of the first LGBTQ+ edition of Netflix\u2019s \u201cThe Ultimatum.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\nSince the show has aired, I\u2019m wondering if the criticism and negativity you received in response still lingers on at all, or if it\u2019s affected the way that you navigate your identity as a queer person?<\/p>\n
I think what I encountered very quickly was that the majority of people who were cast were there to put their best foot forward in terms of the public eye. And I didn\u2019t come on like that. I just came on to the show to be my true self, whether I was angry at the time, or sad, or whatever it was. I was just going to be genuinely me. And obviously, when you do something like that, it\u2019s really easy to edit and pick apart the person way more if they\u2019re not putting on a constant mature and happy and calm face, which a lot of them did. I think I understood very early on how I would be edited, but it wasn\u2019t going to change me being me, and it was really hard when the show came out, which was about two years after we filmed.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Basically, my whole life had changed [after] we finished filming, and then before the show came out. I had taken time to travel the world. I got a nose job. I moved to Los Angeles. I was starting a new relationship, and then the show came out, and it was just like: number one, I was in the public eye in a way I\u2019d never been before. And number two, I was so villainized and picked on by the queer community. And number three, I saw things happen in the show that my previous partner had not made me aware of. So it was just a lot of trauma to come on all at once while I was just feeling like I was reestablishing my life without that relationship.\u00a0<\/p>\n
When the show first came out, people were actually aggressive towards me when they would meet me in public. I remember distinctly someone asking me for a picture. They put their arm around me, and while they\u2019re taking the picture, they said, \u201cI fucking hate you.\u201d Moments like that happened constantly for months after the show came out. So I just kind of hid away because people were so cruel. Now, luckily, years later, it\u2019s calmed down.\u00a0<\/p>\n
People tend to have this idea of who I am. It\u2019s really hard to grasp that as the human who went through the experience to have to say: Okay, Vanessa, people who watch the show don\u2019t know what you know, and there\u2019s no way you can fully explain it to them. And you just have to accept that. I used to love being out and open and going to all the queer parties, and then the show came out, and now I have just so much more of a hesitation to be in queer spaces. It\u2019s really upsetting to me, but I\u2019m slowly getting back out there and finding that as the time has progressed, people are softer in terms of thinking they know who I am.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Does that hesitation linger in other aspects of your life and are there certain spaces you just feel more comfortable in now?<\/p>\n
I think I feel a lot stronger in just who I am now, so I\u2019m no longer really afraid to go into queer spaces. And if someone were to be unkind to me, I\u2019m just very ready to say, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m gonna walk away now.\u201d I feel like I finally have that bravery, and I\u2019m not just trying to continue to be kind to someone who\u2019s being unkind to me. But in terms of wondering if people are just trying to get to know me or be my friend or get a picture with me because I was in the show, that feeling still lingers. I actually was dating someone for about three years, and that was amazing, and I love her, but we are no longer together.\u00a0<\/p>\n
With that being said, I\u2019m single, and I just have no desire to date, because I cannot imagine going out into the queer world in LA and meeting someone and having in the back of my mind: are they really only on this date because they saw me on the show, or do they think I\u2019m the person from the show? Because the way I was put out there is not really me. I have so much hesitation to get to know someone intimately [since] the show came out, and that\u2019s only something I\u2019ve had to really think about the past few months after my breakup.\u00a0<\/p>\n
I had this person who knew me before the show came out. She obviously wasn\u2019t dating me because I was on a reality show. She had no idea when we started to date. And I look back and I\u2019m like: wow, I got really lucky with that, but I\u2019ll never have that again. Now, I\u2019ll always probably have in the back of my mind: Do you want to date me, actually? Or do you want to date the person whom you saw on the show? Because you can say, \u201cI\u2019m dating the villain from the Queer Ultimatum.\u201d<\/p>\n
Did you watch the show with the person you dated after filming had long wrapped? Were you hesitant or anxious to be like: I don\u2019t know how this person I love is going to see me depicted on TV \u2014 this almost disembodied version of you?<\/p>\n
When I started to date my ex, I had to tell her: I\u2019m going to be on a reality show with my ex. What a terrible thing to tell someone that you\u2019re falling in love with. Number one, I\u2019m going to be a public figure. And number two, you\u2019re gonna have to watch a TV show of me making out with my ex. Crazy. She ended up watching it on her own, so I didn\u2019t get to have the experience with her that I wanted to.\u00a0<\/p>\n
What I can say is, with my family and my friends and people who know me, when they watch the show: they see me. No matter how edited it is and spliced together, they know me. They know my humor. They know my reactions. They know everything. So they are all able to watch it and just laugh at it. But that\u2019s clearly not how the public perceived it.\u00a0<\/p>\n
It was probably very hard for her to watch it, but I think she knew who I was at that point. We had been together for over a year.<\/p>\n
It was hard for her to watch it. Was it hard for you to watch it?\u00a0<\/p>\n
Oh, my god, yes. I kept a diary every single day that we were there, because I didn\u2019t want my own reality to get messed up. I would write down who I talked to, what our conversations were. So watching the show, I wanted to scream. \u201cThis is not what we were talking about. This is not what happened!\u201d But then I just realized that\u2019s what I signed up for, and I had no real perception of [being on] reality TV before, and I just had to accept it.\u00a0<\/p>\n
I watched the show with two of my best friends, Jordan and Kim, and it was just crazy how often I was pausing it and saying, \u201cOkay, so this is what really happened,\u201d and giving them the rundown. In that moment, I was like, \u201cWhat the fuck is this?\u201d But then also had to accept there\u2019s no way to change it. I just knew that\u2019s what it was, and I needed to accept it. Whatever you say to add to the conversation, whether you think you\u2019re clarifying something, if they don\u2019t like you and they\u2019re dead set on disliking you, they will use any more information to just compile it somehow.\u00a0<\/p>\n
So I just stayed quiet and didn\u2019t defend myself when my other cast members were coming out and making TikToks about me. People that I love, people I had no beef with, were still leaning into the villainhood of me because it made their social media blow up. And I just stayed silent because I knew there was nothing that I could do at that point to change people\u2019s minds. Because they love a villain, and they had a villain in me.\u00a0<\/p>\n
Do you regret the experience?<\/p>\n
It was the worst time of my life. I truly mean that [and] I hope that that remains the worst part of my life. I don\u2019t regret it, because that was the reason that that relationship ended for me, and I genuinely don\u2019t think it ever would have ended without that. That was something that I never would have had the strength to do. It was good for me in that way, but the experience was really a low point. I\u2019m happy it\u2019s in the past.\u00a0<\/p>\n
In this current period of time in your life, what\u2019s keeping you passionate and happy? With the upcoming Lez Brunch theme being chosen family and friendships,\u00a0how are you leaning into those relationships now?<\/p>\n
The past few months are my first months being single, and so I\u2019ve had a lot of time to spend with my friends \u2014 which has been so nice. I\u2019ve missed relying on my friends for social situations, because I used to rely so heavily on my partner. It\u2019s been really nice to have free time all the time. When my friends ask me to hang out, I can almost always say yes. And I\u2019ve been doing a lot of reading. I\u2019ve been painting little canvases that I\u2019m going to put on my walls to decorate my apartment. I\u2019ve been doing a lot of karaoke nights.\u00a0<\/p>\n
I\u2019ve been really focusing on acting and honing in on that craft and really applying to projects and finding a new manager and just really setting myself up for success in the acting world. I just want to keep that momentum going. I\u2019m really happy with where I am right now with that.<\/p>\n
[With] Lez Brunch, I think there is such a different atmosphere surrounding that, because it\u2019s not: come out late at night when you\u2019re drunk and let\u2019s party \u2014 which is pretty much all of the events other than Lez Brunch that I go to or host. It\u2019s more of a hangout experience versus a nighttime event.\u00a0<\/p>\n
[When it comes to chosen family] I have so much empathy for people who are just trying to love the way they want to love, and because of that, they\u2019ve experienced rejection by people who used to love them until they knew this one thing about them. It\u2019s not a bad thing. It\u2019s not a dangerous thing. It\u2019s simply: I might love someone of the same gender.\u00a0<\/p>\n
So I love situations in queer communities where we\u2019re boldly saying: If you can\u2019t have your blood family, you can have your chosen family. We\u2019re all here to support you and make you feel loved. And I feel like that\u2019s what the theme of this Lez Brunch is. We are your chosen family. So come hang out and celebrate, and let\u2019s all outpour love on each other.<\/p>\n
Come join The Blade and Vanessa at Lez Brunch: <\/p>\n
\ud83d\udcc5 Saturday, November 22 \u00b7 12PM\u20134PM (or as late as we want!)<\/p>\n
\ud83d\udccd Blue Birdy
8917 Sunset Blvd, West Hollywood, CA 90069
Next to the world-famous Whisky A Go Go on the Sunset Strip<\/p>\n
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