A story BNG first reported more than three weeks ago came to a disheartening conclusion Sunday, March 8, when Chris Ogden resigned as campus pastor for First Baptist Church of Orlando’s Horizon West campus.
Ogden, who by all accounts was a tremendously popular pastor at the up-and-coming satellite congregation, had been placed on administrative leave because he opposed a decision of the mother church’s three senior pastors to host the “Make Heaven Crowded” tour put on by Turning Point USA. Another staff member, Socrates Perez, already had resigned in protest.
Screencap of Chris Ogden in video apologizing to congregation for questioning the leadership of the senior pastors of First Baptist Orlando.
Ogden was not present at this morning’s two services where his letter of resignation was read by David Uth, one of the three senior pastors leading the multi-campus church. According to multiple people present, about 50 people walked out of both services and some heckled Uth as they left. Others upset about their pastor’s departure simply didn’t show up today and may never come back.
Some insiders have questioned why BNG has reported so extensively on the personnel decisions of a local church. The answer is easy: First Baptist Orlando is not an average church because of its size and history and influence. Also, this story illustrates the corrosive influence of Turning Point USA. In short, the story is news because of the TPUSA angle.
There are at least four lessons to be learned here, which I will attempt to explain.
Why TPUSA?
First, TPUSA is a highly divisive organization that is more political than religious. In case you’re in the dark, this is the organization founded by Charlie Kirk to advance a MAGA vision of a “Christian nation.”
Charlie Kirk
Remember how many evangelicals got their knickers in a twist when — after Kirk’s assassination — quite a few people had the temerity to point out his views were racist and homophobic and contrary to the gospel of Jesus Christ? Yeah, the same stark differences of opinion still exist.
And for a church like First Baptist Orlando to welcome such an event on its campus implies endorsement. Hosting such a political “revival” meeting is an inherently political decision.
Now, some of the good folks at First Baptist Orlando have attempted to dismiss such claims of politicking by saying the church has an open policy on public use of its facilities. I get that because for 17 years I was the executive pastor of a Baptist church in Dallas that had and still has such an open policy for community events. Even an open policy has limits.
I would not have approved a Klan rally in our building, and I sure as heck would not have approved a TPUSA event in our building any more than I would have approved a meeting of Moms for Liberty. These are groups with viewpoints and agendas diametrically opposed to the witness of our church. We would not want to imply sponsorship by giving them our venue.
And I can guarantee you First Baptist Orlando would not let Planned Parenthood use its building for a meeting of any kind. So, to blame the decision to host TPUSA on an open-use policy is disingenuous.
“I can guarantee you First Baptist Orlando would not let Planned Parenthood use its building for a meeting of any kind.”
Likewise, Uth told the congregation the Sunday before the TPUSA event — four days before it was to happen — that he had been promised the rally would be all about Jesus and not about politics. All he or any leader of the church would have had to do to debunk that fake promise is to read about the previous rallies on the tour or watch videos of them.
Let’s just call Uth’s guarantee wishful thinking at best.
How should a church staff communicate?
Second, the back-channel explanation given about Ogden being placed on leave is that he behaved badly in a staff meeting. If you listen closely to his video apology, you’ll notice he apologizes for confronting the three senior pastors in front of other staff.
What’s not said out loud is that he reportedly had raised the same concerns in private and felt he was not heard. Seems to me he was trying to warn the senior leaders of the church they were steering the ship toward imminent disaster, and they kept going full steam ahead.
Again, I’ve led a large church — although not a multi-campus church — and was the person running weekly staff meetings. Occasionally, we had some confrontations in those meetings and, yes, sometimes I was the one being confrontational. I know how this works. And as an informed outsider looking in, it sure seems the holy trinity of church leadership does not want to be confronted with alternative facts.
Let me remind our readers that one of those three senior pastors, Danny de Armas, is the former chairman of trustees at the Southern Baptist Convention North American Mission Board, which is the most secretive agency in the SBC.
Mission boards and churches that do not allow for differences of opinion — even those expressed passionately — do not operate with the democratic principles of Baptist governance.
The multi-campus problem
Benjamin Cole
Third, in a recent episode of our BNG podcast “Stuck in the Middle with You,” my cohost, Benjamin Cole, made a strong statement: When a church creates satellite campuses, it no longer functions like a Baptist church.
What he means is Baptist life in America has been so rooted in congregational governance that the satellite campus model breaks down when confronted with questions of hierarchy and polity. Satellite campuses are to Baptist polity what Washington, D.C., is to American governance. They have all the responsibilities but not much representation.
That appears to be a big part of the rub in the TPUSA case. The mother campus in Orlando was going to do something the pastors of a satellite campus thought would bring embarrassment to the whole system. Yet they had no meaningful input into the decision.
On the First Baptist Orlando website in a FAQ section, we find this question: “What Is the Relationship Between Horizon West Church and First Orlando?”
The answer: “Since its inception in 2018, Horizon West Church has existed as a campus of First Orlando. This means having a shared mission, a shared vision for reaching Central Florida, shared senior and executive leadership, shared central services and a single shared operational budget. This is the reason you will sometimes hear us refer to Horizon West Church and, alternately, to Horizon West campus. On a practical level, Horizon West campus staff receive coaching through First Orlando leadership and participate in regular departmental and all-staff meetings. The campuses of First Orlando also have a high degree of alignment in the area of sermon series and ministry programs, and campuses have flexibility to adjust as befits to the unique needs of the campus.”
“It is rare to find a satellite campus of any megachurch that could stand on its own financially.”
Also note the new campus currently under construction for the Horizon West campus is being paid for by a joint $56.4 million fundraising effort that benefits all the campuses and was coordinated by the mother congregation. It was not a fundraising drive of the Horizon West campus.
It is rare to find a satellite campus of any megachurch that could stand on its own financially. Sharing in the resources of a more established and wealthier mother church has big benefits. But money comes with strings.
We do not know what role money — or the appeasement of major donors — played in how Ogden was treated, but we have to wonder.
Chris Ogden preaching at Horizon West campus of First Baptist Orlando (via Facebook)
Back to the bigger question Ben raised on the podcast: Can a satellite congregation that does not have autonomy in decision making be considered a Baptist church? In modern practice, the answer is no. We have historically called such dependent congregations “missions,” not churches.
For a fascinating discussion of this question, see a document produced by Village Church in suburban Dallas explaining why it let go of all its satellite campuses.
Personnel committees
Fourth, the larger the Baptist church, the more far-removed personnel management is from lay leadership. This is true not only of practical necessity but because larger churches run more like businesses than congregational ministries.
Based on our digging into the story at First Baptist Orlando, it appears the Personnel Committee at the main campus played a large role in what happened to Ogden. Again, that means people who are not part of the congregational life at Horizon West control the personnel management of campus leadership. That’s a problem.
During my tenure as an executive pastor, there were three committees I worked especially hard to be sure got staffed with the right lay leadership: Finance, Personnel and Deacon Nominating. In our bylaws, these are the three standing committees essential to church functioning. Even one person on these committees pushing a personal agenda could spell trouble.
Furthermore, while we wanted to enlist the leadership of qualified lay leaders, we did not want to bring in people who assumed the church works the way their corporation works. How you manage a pastor’s performance is vastly different than how you handle the work of a department manager at the bank. In a church, there are human interactions not readily duplicated in any other work environment.
Again, if you pay close attention to the chain of events at First Baptist Orlando — even the forced video apology from Ogden — you will hear corporate-speak based in secular hierarchy, not church polity.
From the outside looking it, it appears Chris Ogden was treated like an employee who wouldn’t conform to the company line.
To be clear, I don’t know any of these people personally. To the best of my knowledge, I’ve never met anyone involved in this church drama. But I am seasoned enough in Baptist church governance to see red flags. And we haven’t even addressed the craziness of naming three senior pastors.
The recent chain of events at First Baptist Orlando presents lessons for us all if only we will listen.
Mark Wingfield
Mark Wingfield serves as executive director and publisher of Baptist News Global. Before that, he served as associate pastor at Wilshire Baptist Church in Dallas, where he managed a staff of about 50 employees.
Related articles:
Orlando pastor on leave after questioning TPUSA ‘revival’
Update: TPUSA event at First Baptist Orlando appears to be canceled