Florida Stand Your Ground law questioned after gun pulled at school bus stop
Officials say the man had the right to stand his ground, however a Florida attorney says that right could go away if he was commiting a crime by possesing a firearm at a school bus stop
INDIANTOWN, Fla. —
Questions are being raised about Florida’s Stand Your Ground law and where people can legally carry firearms after a parent pulled a gun during a confrontation with two teenagers at a school bus stop in Indiantown.
The incident happened Friday morning after the student’s father dropped his son off at the bus stop and began speaking with the bus driver about his son being bullied.
According to Martin County Sheriff John Budensiek, a 14-year-old accused of bullying the boy got off the bus and confronted the father and his son. Another teenager then approached, and the confrontation escalated before the father pulled a gun.
Budensiek said no criminal charges were filed against the father because he was legally allowed to draw his weapon and “stand his ground.”
But attorney and former Palm Beach County State Attorney Dave Aronberg said there is another issue at play: Florida law generally prohibits possessing a firearm at a school, school bus or school bus stop, subject to exceptions.
“Florida law makes it a low-level misdemeanor to have a firearm at a bus stop. There are some exceptions,” Aronberg said.
Aronberg said one exception involves a firearm secured inside a vehicle.
“Parents can have a firearm in their car during school drop-offs as long as it’s securely encased or not readily available,” he said.
He said that protection can change once someone leaves the vehicle with the firearm.
“But the moment an adult exits the vehicle and steps onto the bus stop with a gun, that vehicle exception expires, and it’s a potential crime,” Aronberg told WPBF.
How Stand Your Ground fits in
Florida’s Stand Your Ground law generally provides immunity from prosecution for certain defensive uses of force when its requirements are met.
One key requirement, Aronberg said, is that the person using or threatening deadly force cannot be engaged in criminal activity and must be in a place where they have a right to be.
“Stand Your Ground does not grant immunity for bringing a weapon to a prohibited location before the confrontation even begins,” he said.
Aronberg said that creates a potential conflict in this case: if investigators determine the father was unlawfully possessing the firearm at the bus stop, that could affect whether he qualifies for Stand Your Ground immunity.
“It could be argued that since he was violating the law in bringing a gun to a place where he’s not allowed to bring a gun, a bus stop, that he was engaged in criminal activity, so stand your ground does not apply,” Aronberg told WPBF.
That does not necessarily eliminate a self-defense argument.
“You lose stand your ground. You don’t necessarily lose the right to self-defense,” he said.
The distinction is important because Stand Your Ground can provide immunity before a case goes to trial, while self-defense can remain an argument after someone is arrested or charged.
“With stand your ground, you are granted immunity that you will not be arrested or charged in that offense because you had the legal right to stand your ground,” Aronberg said.
No duty to retreat — if Stand Your Ground applies
Aronberg said a person who qualifies for Stand Your Ground generally has no duty to retreat before defending themselves.
“The whole point of Stand Your Ground is that there is no duty to retreat,” he said.
But he said that becomes more complicated if someone is considered the initial aggressor.
“An individual who provokes or initiates a confrontation is considered the initial aggressor, and they lose the benefit of Stand Your Ground unless they exhaust every reasonable means of escape or retreat,” Aronberg said.
That is another issue in the Martin County case because the accounts differ over why the father was at the bus stop and who initiated the confrontation.
The sheriff has said the father went there to speak with the bus driver about his son being bullied. The teenagers, according to a Tuesday interview with WPBF, maintained that the father was there looking for them.
Aronberg said that distinction could matter.
“The other problem, though, is that it’s harder to claim Stand Your Ground, saying that, well, the teens approached me in a fighting stance when you may have been the one to insert yourself into their bus stop to confront them in the first place,” he said.
What makes fear ‘reasonable’?
Aronberg said Stand Your Ground does not simply depend on whether someone says they were afraid.
“When you’re talking about reasonable fear, it’s not purely subjective,” he said.
Instead, investigators have to examine the circumstances surrounding the confrontation.
“We use a reasonableness standard. Was it reasonable for you to believe that your life was in danger?” he said.
Aronberg said investigators could consider the teenagers’ size, actions and words when determining whether the father’s fear was reasonable.
“How big were these kids? What were their actions? What did they say? And then what was reasonable for him to think at the time?” he said.
The fact that the alleged aggressors were teenagers does not automatically prevent someone from claiming self-defense.
“But if it’s 16-year-olds, even 14-year-olds who look like adults who are your size, who could do damage, yeah, you’ll have a better case of Stand Your Ground,” he said.
Could the father still face a gun charge?
Aronberg said he can’t speak specifically to if this man will face charges but said, in general, it would be possible for the legal issues surrounding the firearm possession and the confrontation to be treated separately.
He said possessing a firearm at a bus stop is a second-degree misdemeanor.
“You can still be charged with possession of a firearm. It’s a low-level crime,” he said.
A second-degree misdemeanor can carry a maximum of 60 days in jail, although Aronberg said someone without prior offenses would likely face a lesser consequence such as probation or diversion.
Why the lack of injuries matters
No one was shot or otherwise seriously injured during the confrontation.
Aronberg said that is significant to how law enforcement may handle the case.
“But sometimes law enforcement will say this is a wash. There’s no one hurt here. Thankfully, no gun went off. Both sides acted poorly and were just going to move on,” he said.
Ultimately, Aronberg said the central legal question is whether the father was committing a crime by bringing the firearm to the bus stop.
“I think here the key is whether law enforcement will find that he was committing a crime when he brought the gun to the bus stop,” he told WPBF.
If investigators conclude he was committing that offense, Aronberg said that could eliminate the statutory Stand Your Ground immunity even if a separate self-defense argument remains.
“You’re not allowed to claim stand your ground if you’re doing so in the commission of another crime,” he said.
According to the sheriff, the adult man was asked if he wanted to press charges against the two teens in the incident, but he declined.
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