Being the boss isn’t always fun and games, as Ryan Serhant is learning. Not only does it come with tough conversations—like when he had to fire Jordan Hurt from a listing in Owning Manhattan Season 2—but it also comes with managing many different personalities, and more often than not, the drama that follows them.
In Owning Manhattan Season 1, Serhant is energetic, on top of his game, and dominating the New York City real estate market—a stark contrast to the way he’s shown in Season 2, in which he struggles to balance his work and home life, the mounting pressure from clients, and conflicts within his ever-growing team. Unfortunately for Serhant, the drama among his agents doesn’t stop when the cameras go down. When former star Savannah Gowarty—who was revealed to have accepted an offer from another brokerage at the end of Season 1—posted her top 10 takeaways from Season 2 (some of which were shady), current star Tricia Lee outed her for getting “fired as f**k” from SERHANT.
“Why can’t anyone just be normal?” Serhant wondered when DECIDER told him about the comment.
The real estate mogul went on to clear up what actually happened with Gowarty—who became a key player last season after Jonathan Nørmolle spoke negatively about her on a podcast—explaining that she was, in fact, “let go” from the company. While he said the scene was filmed for Season 1, it was ultimately “cut” from the show.
“Listen, Savannah is great. She’s a great person, has a huge heart,” Serhant said. “She just wasn’t the right fit for the company. You’ve got to work with everybody when you work with us. If you can’t do that then you can’t be here regardless of how much you sell or don’t sell.”
While Serhant acknowledged that Gowarty is “great TV,” he was also aware that “the rest of the cast is very territorial that they’ve survived” in the company, especially Lee, who, according to Serhant, “spoke her truth more than anybody” this season.
“She gets very, very, very passionate about the business, about herself, about her team and about everybody else, and it’s like, ‘If you come after us, make sure that you check your own receipts because we will print them for the world,’” Serhant said. “I don’t know if Savannah knew that that was coming.”
When Serhant visited our studio, he also shared how he would’ve handled Nile Lundgren’s near “physical altercation” differently, why he decided to include his family in more of this season, and whether he was setting up a potential Owning Miami spinoff with the group’s trip to the Sunshine State. Check out the full interview below.
DECIDER: One thing that was really different from Season 1 was that we got a much deeper look into your personal life. Not only did we see you with your daughter, but Emilia even had some confessional interviews. What made you want to include more of your personal life this season?
RYAN SERHANT: To be totally honest and transparent, they were a huge part of my Million Dollar Listing life on Bravo. We had a spinoff show about our wedding. We followed, for an entire season, my wife doing IVF. My daughter was born on camera. You see her as an infant. That was 10 years of our life. When we stopped Million Dollar Listing and I started my own company, it was like, “I’m done with you, don’t worry about it. No more reality TV, guys. Everything’s fine. Except maybe one more time.” And then I bring in this show. I was like, “You know what? I’m going to protect them for the first season because Netflix is a different level of exposure.” I wanted to keep it focused on the business. Owning Manhattan is a show that entire families can watch. We see that like in the ratings, in the views. It’s one of the most popular reality TV shows for kids watching with their parents, because it’s a business show. I mean, it’s dramatic. There’s some swearing and stuff, but other than that, it’s a real depiction of real life and what it’s like to work in New York City. Because the exposure is so massive, it was amazing for our business. It was a lot for us to take on last year, and I just wanted to protect them in that first season, just in case. I just didn’t know. Now that we’re OK, I bring them in a little bit, a little sprinkle here and there.
Photo: Netflix
I was really surprised to see you become so emotional with Jordan Hurt, but also appreciative because you are a guy that does so much but keeps his cards close when it comes to personal struggles. What was it like to let it all out at that moment? And have you made any changes to have a better work/life balance?
No. Of course not. Do you think I’m going to work on myself? I have stuff to do! My mental health takes a backseat to everybody else’s well-being. You’re talking about the season finale. The breakup scene with the firing early in the season was probably much, much harder on me because I do have a hard time delivering bad news. I’m not the type of person that enjoys hurting other people or ruining their day. I’ve worked for people like that, and I’ve made the mistake of hiring people who actually enjoy making other people’s lives difficult because they don’t know how to make themselves happy. They get enjoyment from making your life worse because misery loves company, and our company culture is the opposite of that. But I still do, as the boss, have to deliver bad news sometimes and it’s really, really hard. So that was a tough scene for me.
The breakdown at the end was just that caught on-camera moment. I don’t know, it was a lot happening that entire month that led up to that week, that led up to that day. I think I’m just so comfortable with Jordan because he was my assistant for almost six years. He knows my entire life. If I have an honest conversation with an employee, they’re biased. Like, how’s this going to affect my job? If I have an honest conversation with family, they’re like, “Oh, well, how is this going to affect our family?” Even if you talk to a therapist, they’re like, “Well, let’s just do what’s best for you without really thinking about the greater good of everybody else.” I have 1,500 people who work for me that I’m responsible for now. I have a family. I have life goals. I’m a CEO of four separate businesses. I think I’m going to crack. With Jordan, he could just talk to me because he’s like, “I want what’s best for me. I want it’s best for you. I want what’s best for everybody, and it’s not going to be good for anybody if you have a breakdown.” I think he provided a safe space for me to just have that conversation and know that maybe I do have a problem.
I don’t want to speak for him. He talked about it a little bit on camera … like, the process of overcoming addiction. It was something that I didn’t expect him to talk about. I’m never going to tell someone else’s story. But he brought that to light with me and I think I do find myself being addicted to the work because I can control it, and I know how it’s going to make me feel. Going into the work and playing me is this thing that when I’m not doing it, there is a physical comedown for me. It is hard. I think that just comes from, I don’t know, years and years and years of probably not being comfortable in my own skin. And now I get to unpack that on international television.
Photo: Netflix
We saw some pretty great deals this season, including the $60 million sale of 150 Charles. You had a buyer, but he wouldn’t offer full ask, so Peter went ahead with another buyer. How do you handle something like that? Because it’s still a win for your firm, but it’s also a bit of a loss for you personally.
Which is fine. Again, it’s one of the things that I think I really appreciate about the show and why I think it’s watched all over the world. I’m not afraid to show mistakes. I think the rest of the cast–and we made that deal with each other, like, if we’re going to make a Netflix show and we’re going to put it out to hundreds of millions of people, then you got to come 100% to the table. The glitz, the glamor and the gutter. You got to show absolutely everything or don’t do it. Don’t do a TV show. Just go work. It’s fine. If you want to be private, don’t put yourself on camera. But if you’re going to be here, you have to show everybody everything and you have to take that risk.
My ego was definitely hurt at that moment because I do sell all the things. Coming to the realization of like, “No, Ryan, you’re building something much bigger.” And the pivot in the season of watching me go from broker to CEO, of quarterback to owner/manager, and trying to figure out maybe I can’t do both because that’s why I surround myself with great people. There is a little bit of a career death that you follow this season, which is why I think so many people are watching this season twice. You watch it and it’s fun. You watch it for the deals and there’s fights and drama and there’s a lot of stuff going on. And then in that last moment in the finale, you realize what you just watched, and then people are going back and watching it with an entirely different light, which I don’t think people do with reality TV. You get it, great, you’ll watch clips, but you don’t go and sit down for eight more hours and watch it again. And so the rewatch, I think, is one of the highest on Netflix. It’s nuts for a reality show, for sure.
I definitely want to get into some of the drama we saw this season. You went on social media and said that you would’ve handled the Nile situation differently had you actually seen what happened before it dropped on Netflix. What did you think about what you saw in the show? How would you have handled it differently?
Everything comes with context. I’m not the best boss, not the best manager. I’m learning as I go. When someone comes to me with an issue, I hear them. There’s always two sides to every story. In this situation, there were four sides. Instead of just going person by person by person in private, what I’ve usually found to be more effective is just get everybody into a room. Because if you’re going to tell me something happened just to me, I want you to say it in front of everybody else so I can hear the real context. I didn’t really get a lot of context. That scene that they shot of us in that conference room with Genesis and Nile and Jess and Eric and then me in the middle, they just yelled at each other for an hour and a half. I couldn’t really tell exactly what happened. There was an email. Someone was poaching someone else’s client, but there shouldn’t have been aggression on either side. It just was confusing. What I did notice was that Nile, who’s a senior agent, no matter what the context is, stood up and physically squared off with a brand new agent named Eric. Regardless of the people, regardless of the reason why, it doesn’t matter, even if someone wrongs you, you do not physically go after somebody. That was the entirety of that scene for me. It had nothing to do with Jess or Genesis in any way, because in real time, it was about a physical altercation. What you don’t see is everyone else in the company having heard not about Jess in Genesis, but that Nilel, who’s been in this business a long time and who knows better, defending one of his agents—rightly, I think—instead of just using his words and handling it professionally [or] going to HR, stood up physically to fist fight another agent in the room.
Photo: Netflix
I don’t care what anyone says. You just don’t do that. I have a zero strike policy for that type of behavior. Watching in context now. I do believe that Genesis was in the right, because she did agree that she shouldn’t have sent that email. Even when she did, when she found out that it was their listing, she backed away. It was totally fine. It should never have become this whole thing. But Nile also shouldn’t have stoked the flame. Jess, also, I don’t think she was crying about the situation to me. I think she was crying about the situation as a whole and how uncomfortable it was. I think I probably, in that moment, shouldn’t have brought everyone into one room. I should have just gone to HR and had them handled directly instead of trying to come in and be the hero. So that’s what I would have done differently.
There’s been a little bit of online drama with former SERHANT agent Savannah Gowarty. She was a little shady in an Instagram video, so Tricia commented, “You were never a normal person nor were you ever doing this job. You should sit down before I tell the world you were fired as f**k.” Can you clear up what actually happened with Savannah last season?
Why can’t anyone just be normal? I do appreciate that some people watch the show and they come to me and they’re like, “Hey, man, I saw your show. Are you doing OK? How do you handle these people?” I’m like, “I’m not OK. Can’t you tell?” Wow. I did not know that she commented that. That is new information for me that I’m processing in real time with you right now. Listen, Savannah is great. She’s a great person, has a huge heart. She just wasn’t the right fit for the company. You’ve got to kind of work with everybody when you work with us. If you can’t do that then you can’t be here regardless of how much you sell or don’t sell. She was let go, which we did film, and then it wasn’t in Season 1. That’s something that was cut. I don’t know, maybe I’m not supposed to say that, but that’s out there.
I think there is some emotion that is still there. I think she’s great on camera and she’s great TV, for sure. But I think the rest of the cast is very territorial that they’ve survived, that they’re still here. They’re all very much about telling the truth. Tricia spoke her truth this season, I think, more than anybody. She gets very, very, very passionate about the business, about herself, about her team and about everybody else. And it’s like, “If you come after us, make sure that you check your own receipts because we will print them for the world.” And I don’t know if Savannah knew that that was coming.
Photo: Netflix
Jordan March was very vocal this season about feeling overlooked by you. Were you surprised to see how upset he was about the situation? And have you started to give him his flowers a bit more?
If I’m being honest, I think sometimes I move so fast with blinders on that I become ignorant to things that are happening around me. I’ve really, really tried to do better at that and really listen to the people that have worked with me, that have helped me, that are sometimes trying to tell me things without maybe telling me things. I started the company legally by myself. I owned 100% of the business for a long time. [I used] all my own dollars. [I] blew up my entire life. I had a sales team of 65. I shut everything down and I started this thing by myself. Then I started surrounding myself with other great people who could then help. But ownership in the company, in terms of equity, was never a part of the discussion. It was, “Hey, if you see an opportunity here, you’re going to make a significant amount of money, let’s grow, let’s build.”
Jordan March is one of my best friends but he wasn’t there on day one because he didn’t know if the company was going to work. What he doesn’t say in a lot of these scenes is that he didn’t show up on day zero or day one for me. He came a couple months later, which thank God. Thank you. Please. But he wasn’t agent No. 1. Once he saw that I wasn’t going to fail immediately, then he came over, which I love him for, and I appreciate for him 1,000%. And now the company is where it is. It’s worth a lot. It’s big. And the investment, I think, is what really, really sent him off because of the timeline of when that took place and the size. We raised the largest proptech seed round in history and I owned 100% of the business when we did that. I don’t anymore. I still own the most and I have total control. That was a big thing for me in Season 2. It’s brought a lot of emotions to the table, including recently, including outside Blake Lively’s event two nights ago. That’s become an issue. But we’ll be okay. He’ll be good. He’s one of the original founding members with me. And he will be incredibly successful and we’ll make it right.
I, of course, have to ask you about selling Andy Cohen’s apartment, which you sold for a little over $10 million (reportedly to actor Danny Strong). Andy previously said your behind-the-scenes interactions with him during that time “would make for its own show.” Care to elaborate? What was it like working with Andy? Best part? Worst part? Do you have any fun stories you can share?
The best part about working with Andy is that he is the consummate professional, and he understands that when he hires people to do a job, they will do the job. I have a lot of clients who are incredibly successful that micromanage everything, and they call me 57 times a day. “What are you doing now? Did you do this? How come you suck? I didn’t realize Ryan is spelled F-A-I-L.” I’m like, “Oh, my God, guys, you know what? I’m doing the best I can.” Andy would only touch base with me when he needed a little bit of assurance on the marketplace. “Are we doing the right thing? Are we at the right price?” Because we started at $14 million, and then we moved down to get it sold to meet the marketplace. He had also combined multiple apartments in a co-op that doesn’t allow washer/dryers over two floors to make his own incredible compound, which is a specific home for someone special, which we found and got that deal done. That’s where he’s great.
I don’t know if the interactions would have made for reality [TV]. I asked him to do the show, and he was like, “Bravo’s better.” I was like, “I didn’t realize it was a battle.” Selling anything is hard. There’s personalities involved and there’s co-op boards involved, and there’s decisions involved and the designers come in, and there’s a lot of back and forth and a lot of a lot of things where that deal probably could have or should have died at the 11th hour that we just saved and brought back and had to keep [telling] Andy, like, “Come on!” We’re, like, pounding on his chest, like, “We can do it. We’re gonna get this deal done.” And now it’s done. It’s fine. And you don’t remember all those little things. But yes, maybe in one of his books he can write about it.
Photo: Netflix
I know Tyler Cameron recently joined SERHANT. How did the other agents receive him given his Bachelor background? And could he potentially become a full-time cast member on future seasons of Owning Manhattan?
Possibly. It really is a process we take each and every season. The show is Owning Manhattan, so it is about agents in Manhattan. He does live in Florida. If there’s a role, for sure. I think that would be super, super cool. If we do a spinoff about owning something in Florida, then I think that could be really, really cool. But no tea on that right now. As far as all the other agents, there’s a lot of agents who work at this company who understand what I am and what I bring to the table and they’re all about it. As I add people with additional exposure, I think if any other company, they’d feel slighted because their egos would be bruised. At SERHANT, everyone, I think, has harassed him to work with him. They’re like, “Tyler, I’m going to bring you on this deal. Let’s make a video. Use your following. Everything’s good. This house would be great for a bachelorette.” He’s drinking from the firehose right now because everyone is very excited to include him. He was like, “I didn’t realize everyone’s gonna love me so much.” Like, you didn’t realize they would love you so much? What are you talking about? You’re like a 6’9” All-American quarterback.
You kind of touched on it before, but it did feel like you were setting up an Owning Miami spinoff this season!
Yeah, we definitely potentially set something up. Going to Miami was fun. It’s a tricky state.New York is a character. I think the shows that work really, really well – even like Below Deck. In Below Deck, the character is the ship. It’s the ship, it’s the sea. You’re watching the show for as much about the people as you are [for] this world of the ship. New York City is a character. A lot of the shots in Owning Manhattan and the drone shots through the canyons and everything of the buildings, people will watch the show on mute sometimes just because it’s so beautiful to watch. There’s not a whole lot of cities. London is one. Miami, I think, is gorgeous and is growing. But, you know, there’s only so many beach houses you can sell.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Owning Manhattan Season 2 is currently streaming on Netflix.