Photo-Illustration: Vulture; Photos: Griffin Nagel/Peacock/Getty Images, Peacock
Two of the most dominant winners in their respective franchise’s histories, Survivor’s Boston Rob and RuPaul’s Drag Race alum Bob the Drag Queen, are more relevant than ever. Boston Rob is an indisputable member of the Survivor Mt. Rushmore, known for his brash personality, Godfather-like methodology, and wily charisma. (Not to mention making it to the final two with his now-wife Amber Brkich, then proposing to her during the Survivor: All Stars reunion.) Bob the Drag Queen, meanwhile, made winning season eight of RuPaul’s Drag Race look easy, breezing past the stiff competition with expert comic timing and innate showmanship.
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When the two met on The Traitors last year, they clashed, of course. Rob got Bob banished but, in doing so, sealed his own fate as puppet master and got voted out just a few episodes later. Now, the pair have put the past behind them and come together to host the official Traitors podcast, where their strategy (and in Bob’s case, fashion) expertise comes in handy. For both, the podcast is a delightful meeting of the minds that supplements already full careers. Boston Rob is in the process of pivoting to Peacock mascot — he co-hosted a weirdly delightful football watch party in December alongside Salt Lake City Housewife Heather Gay and Below Deck’s Kate Chastain and appeared to be the only person in the room aware a game was happening. Bob, meanwhile, has leveraged her reality-TV fame to push herself to untold heights for a drag queen: She’s starred on Broadway, toured with Madonna, and released multiple stand-up specials. Together, they show just how vast a reality-competition career can grow.
When did you know you made it?
Bob the Drag Queen: I don’t necessarily feel like I’ve made it. A big moment for me was being able to sell tickets in a foreign country. I did a tour in Canada called “Crazy Black Lady,” and it sold out so fast. I was like, Wow, Canadians really like me. I found out it was because my season was the only season of Drag Race that aired for three years straight in Canada. I was like the queen of Canada; they should have put me on the loonie.
Boston Rob: It feels like a dream. I still don’t know what I’m gonna do when I grow up. I have four kids, and I feel like my wife sometimes has five because I’m still a kid at heart. In the beginning, reality-show contestants were thought of as secondary citizens in the world of entertainment. Things have definitely changed in the last 25 years.
What did you buy with your first paycheck?
B.T.D.Q.: I won $100,000 as the winner of RuPaul’s Drag Race, which was great. The first thing I remember buying after that was candy at the movie theater. I mostly invest back in my career. I live in a pretty modest home, but I do have a studio. I drove a Toyota, and now I drive a Lexus, but it’s not very fancy. The biggest purchase of my life was buying my mom a house. That was a huge moment for me. It wasn’t the first thing I bought, but it was one of the first big things I bought. It was years and years into my career at that point.
B.R.: The first time I was on Survivor, I got a check for $20,000 and it felt like the most money in the whole world. I never had a check for that much money at once. I don’t think I did anything fun with it. I paid off some of my school loans, and I went back to work. After Amber won the million and I won a quarter of a million, I thought we were rich. We paid our taxes, we bought a house, and we went back to work.
If you were to describe your onscreen persona in five words, what would they be?
B.T.D.Q.: I don’t have a character that I play. I am confrontational. I am irreverent. I am funny. I am also caring, and I am bold.
B.R.: Competitive, strategic. From other people’s point of view, it’s tough because I would say “loyal” and other people might say “villain.”
What’s the defining moment of your reality-TV career so far?
B.T.D.Q.: I’ve been memed several times. People send messages to me on Grindr with my memes. People will yell the sayings I’ve said to me in the streets. One thing I thought was such a small thing, but people talk about it all the time, was when I was live with Terri Joe on TikTok. I don’t think it’s the funniest thing I’ve ever done, but people really, really talk to me about this a lot.
B.R.: Proposing to my wife at the end of All Stars. In one way or another, I hedged the game, knowing that we’re both going to end up with all the money. But at the same time, I gained a partner for life, the mother of my children, and it’s coming up on 21 years. I think that was probably the best move I ever made.
Bob, what is your relationship with the meme “Walk into the room purse first,” which you created on your season, then turned into a song?
B.T.D.Q.: I would never try to escape “Purse First.” My studio is called Purse First Studios. I love it. I love the song. I love that me and my friend Mitch got to write it together and I got to perform it on Broadway. I take jokes and run with them as long as I possibly can.
Is there a moment you felt most misunderstood by viewers?
B.T.D.Q.: In The Traitors, when people thought I was being loud because I was a Traitor, I was like, Maybe these are folks who have never seen anything I’ve ever done. Because I would be loud if I was a Traitor, if I was a Faithful, and if I was working in craft services. I don’t have a quiet personality. Because Traitors was watched by people who do not know who I am at all, some of them maybe thought that my behavior was suspicious. Anyone who knows me is like, That’s really who Bob is.
Also, people who watch me on We’re Here think I’m nicer than I am. I’m a nice person, but I’m not that nice. They edit out a lot of my bitchiness, quite frankly, because it’s meant to be feel-good TV.
B.R.: I’ve always been very competitive. I’m very strategic. When I go into these games, I know what the rules are and I’m going to fight. I’m going to do what I think is the most optimal move at the moment. Certain shows have wanted me to fit inside a box, but I can’t. People ask, Why don’t you switch up your game from this season to this one to this one? I can quickly analyze whatever the competition is and figure out a way to tailor it to me. But if I show up on that island to play Survivor, and all of a sudden, I’m playing with a bunch of people that have played before, and I’m acting different, they’re gonna know it. After 25 years, I have a reputation.
If you could switch places with anybody in reality TV right now, who would it be?
B.T.D.Q.: RuPaul. I’d like to replace one of the hosts. I’m done competing. I would love to be hosting one of these shows. And, quite frankly, I think I deserve it.
B.R.: This is gonna sound egotistical but no one. A lot of people want my job, but I don’t wanna be anyone else. That’s not to say that I don’t have a lot of respect for other people in the genre who have played these games and established themselves in their careers. Parvati, Sandra, and Tony are GOATs. Bob is someone I’ve become friends with, and he is a super-talented individual. I can see how respected he is in his world. But, ultimately, I wouldn’t want to trade with any of them. That’s a fact.
Which reality stars you’ve met are the most like their onscreen personas? Who are the least?
B.T.D.Q.: Vanessa Vanjie Mateo is very much like she is on RuPaul’s Drag Race. Same with Kim Chi and Naomi Smalls. The truth is I can’t speak too much to the people from the Traitors. I never watched any of their shows. I’ve never seen Survivor. I don’t watch Housewives. I don’t watch Big Brother. I thought that Danielle Reyes, outside of the antics, was pretty true to herself. We talk on the phone every once in a while, and I really think she’s very true to her persona. She’s a really smart lady, hardworking, and was really good at the game. I’m actually shocked that people think she was so bad because she literally lasted longer than any of us. She’s top-three longest-lasting Traitors for Traitors U.S.
It was easier for viewers to see it as ridiculous.
B.T.D.Q.: It’s easy to take a test when you have all the answers.
B.R.: With Dylan Efron, what you see is what you get. He and I have hit it off, and we’ve become really good friends and worked on a few projects together. Also, Bob for sure. He is very competitive and a type-A personality, but he’s also really sweet and he’s a humble dude. Tyson Apostol’s a little bit kooky on TV, and he is in real life too.
For the most part, the people I associate with are the ones that actually represent themselves true to form. Rupert leaned into that pirate role when he played the first time. The next thing you know, he has to go around everywhere saying “Arrrrgh, I’m Rupert.” Twenty years of doing that is tough. Coach is another one. He’s a great character. I love to watch him on TV. But the Dragon Slayer persona? I think he does it well, but I wouldn’t want to do it. To live like that, it’s exhausting. Philip Shepherd’s a complicated guy. He came from a different place. He had 12 brothers and sisters, and you can imagine what that’s like to be looking for that attention from your parents your whole life. You can see how it manifests as the character he is. But I got no problems with Philip.
Do you think every good reality-TV show needs a villain?
B.T.D.Q.: I think every bit of media needs an antagonist.
What do you think makes a compelling one?
B.T.D.Q.: If they truly believe in what they’re standing for, even if you don’t agree with it. Then someone can be on their side. If I think of great TV villains, you have Nene Leakes, Omarosa, and Boston Rob.
B.R.: What makes a good — not even a villain, but a reality-TV character, is someone that has self-awareness. Or a lack of. If you’re in the middle, it doesn’t really translate. Either you have great self-awareness, and you can be strategic, and you know everything that’s going on, or you have absolutely no self-awareness and you think everything is based on loyalty and integrity and honor. That lets the audience lean into the character. That lack of awareness really does make great TV characters.
Is there anything you miss about your life before fame?
B.T.D.Q.: I’m less famous than you think I am. Reality-TV fame is very different. I’m not Rihanna or Beyoncé. I’m not getting mobbed. I live a really normal life. I go to the store. I go to the gym. Every once in a while, someone will be like, “Is that Bob the Drag Queen?” And they’re usually pretty chill about it.
I miss being home all the time. I actually genuinely don’t like traveling. People always say, “If you can go anywhere, where’d you go?” I’d go home.
B.R.: I’ve been doing this for half my life, since I was 25. I turned 50 this year. I have friends from college and high school and grade school that will tell you I’m exactly the same. I’m 20 pounds heavier. But I was always a little bit cocky, always thinking two steps ahead. I don’t miss mixing cement and working construction, but I still have that sense of adventure and wonderment. I went flying on the flying trapeze a couple weeks ago with Dylan. Here I am doing new stuff at 50.
What’s your advice for an aspiring reality-TV contestant?
B.T.D.Q.: Don’t try to produce yourself. Be your real self, and let the producers worry about the rest. Don’t try to go in with an agenda. Just try to win. I don’t understand people who are just here for exposure. Only go on a show that you genuinely care about that you actually wanna win. If you’re just doing it for fame, in my opinion, you’re doing it for the wrong reasons.
B.R.: A lot of people nowadays go into these reality-TV shows expecting it to springboard into something else. When I originally applied to be on Survivor, I wanted to win a million dollars and have a great adventure. If I didn’t win the million dollars, at least I was going to get out of Boston for the winter and go to a tropical island. And those were my only expectations. That’s always been the mantra: Have fun first, and go for the adventure. It’s a different world now, though. People go there with the intention to create a persona to create a brand. The Boston Rob brand was built by accident. There’s a lot more room for disappointment if you go in with high expectations.
Who would be in your ideal Traitors turret with you?
B.T.D.Q.: I would’ve had Monet be in The Traitors turret with me. Maybe it’d be a little obvious, but we’re best friends, and I think we work really well together. I would love to be in there with someone like Teck from Real World: Hawaii. And maybe someone like Justin Guarini from American Idol season one. They seem nice.
B.R.: I’d put Joe Manganiello [who hosted when Rob appeared on Deal or No Deal Island] up there with me. I’d love to get him in the castle. Him in the turret would be fun because he’s a little bit sinister. Can we put Probst up there, too? Probst, Manganiello, and Alan Cumming. Let me see how I orchestrate with those three up there.
Who do you think would do the best out of those three hosts?
B.R.: Jeff. It’s gonna be close between Jeff and Joe. Maybe I’m not giving Alan enough credit. It’s his show, right? He should know it better than anyone. Jeff’s really competitive. Joe just squashes them both. I don’t know who’s gonna win. Probably me. I wanna come out on top, right?
Bob, you’ve recapped Traitors and Drag Race. How are those fandoms different to interact with?
B.T.D.Q.: Traitors is a combination of fandoms rolled into one, right? Drag Race creates the fandom and Traitors scoops up fandom. We’re grabbing from Big Brother, we’re grabbing from Survivor, we’re grabbing from Housewives, we’re grabbing from the Olympics, we’re grabbing from stand-up comedy, we’re grabbing RuPaul’s Drag Race. It is a hodgepodge of fandoms all mixed up hanging out in one space. The Drag Race fandom is more organically curated.
Rob, is there a moment in any of your competitions that bugs you from a production angle?
B.R.: The one that still bugs me is Amazing Race. They stole that from us. It was the toughest to swallow and let go. But if Bertram van Munster’s out there: Bertram, it is never the wrong time to do the right thing. Just put the check in the mail. We won, and it was taken from us! We had the ticket on the plane going to the destination by ourselves. The next plane wasn’t for two hours. Production didn’t have their last act of the show. Act seven’s gone, so they manipulated it. That was really tough to take. I don’t even really feel like I lost that, to be honest with you.
Worse was that my wife wanted to go back and play All-Stars and I was vehemently against it. But sometimes you do things for the people you love.