Cardinal Timothy Dolan, archbishop emeritus of New York, recently sat down in New York with EWTN News national correspondent Mark Irons at \u201cNew York Encounter.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n
This \u201cexit interview\u201d covers many topics, including the cardinal\u2019s pastoral legacy, assisted suicide in New York, the pro-abortion-appointment controversy at Notre Dame, and the need to recover Catholic culture. The following transcript has been edited for clarity.<\/p>\n
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So many people in the Church are sad that you are no longer the archbishop of New York, but so happy for all the years spent. They\u2019re already asking you to come back in and share your services. The New York Police Department, they\u2019ve even named you<\/a> \u201cco-chief chaplain.\u201d How does that feel? Are you looking forward to that?<\/p>\n Call me off the bench. Well, I was sitting home reading the want ads, saying, \u201cWhat am I going to do now?\u201d No, I was very moved by that. Of course, you never retire from being a priest or a bishop. People think that, and I\u2019m always eager to clarify \u2014 no, you\u2019re a priest, you\u2019re a bishop forever. However, you retire from an assignment; you retire from an appointment, like I did, as the archbishop of New York. But then you still want to do a lot of priestly things, don\u2019t you? You still want to do a lot of spiritual and pastoral things. So when the commissioner, Jessica Tisch, who does a fine job as police commissioner, called and said, \u201cWe kind of need some help, and we need a new chief of chaplains\u201d \u2014 because the one that was marvelous for a long time, the rabbi, Rabbi [Alvin] Kass<\/a>, had died \u2014 and she said, \u201cWe want to have two co-chaplains. We want to have an evangelical pastor from the African American community, and we want to have you.\u201d She explained it was kind of part time, because there are full-time chaplains in the department, but I was honored. And at first, Mark, I said, \u201cI don\u2019t think so.\u201d She said, \u201cNo, it\u2019s not a full-time job. You kind of do what you want.\u201d She was gracious enough to say, \u201cYou\u2019re doing a lot of it anyway.\u201d She said, \u201cYou\u2019re always visiting the cops in the hospital or baptisms or weddings or funerals. So it\u2019s kind of just that.\u201d And she said, \u201cWe kind of need you because the morale of the cops is a little low, and their trepidation these difficult days might be a little tested.\u201d So she said, \u201cI think it would be a good shot in the arm if you and Rev. A.R. Bernard came aboard.\u201d So I hope it was, to be of service. My grandpa was a police officer in Maplewood, Missouri, and so I got it in my bones. And you cannot be archbishop in New York without love of the police department … and guess what? About at least 35%, if not more, of the police department is Catholic.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n I do want to ask you about some news. This month in the state, the Medical Aid in Dying Act was signed.\u00a0<\/p>\n Well, you got right to bad news right away. We start off with good news. [Mark Irons: We got to jump into it.] This is bad, isn\u2019t it? Am I shocked? You bet I\u2019m shocked. Am I surprised? I\u2019m not surprised. Because why should not the abortion capital of the United States, if not the world, New York, now become the euthanasia capital? If human life is cheap, if the dignity of the human person and the sacredness of human life is not respected, especially when it\u2019s most vulnerable \u2014 the baby in the womb or grandma in hospice \u2014 why would we not be surprised? If human life is thought to be burdensome, if its only value is that it\u2019s useful, or that it can produce, or that it\u2019s not inconvenient to me, then we\u2019re in trouble. We\u2019re in trouble. Why do you think we have these shoot-em-ups? Why do you think we have violence on the street? You know what I\u2019m saying? Because human life is so cheap. And now we got another example here in New York.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n I want to ask you: In a way, we\u2019re entering a new era in New York City. Archbishop Hicks replaces you now.<\/p>\n What a gem he is.<\/p>\n One of the things that softened [the transition] \u2014 it\u2019s a little sad retiring, \u2019cause I love the work. But as I mentioned to you, I tell my people, \u201cI\u2019m not your spiritual father anymore. I\u2019m your spiritual granddad.\u201d So I\u2019ll still be around and still looking forward to it. But one of the things that softened the sadness of retirement would be 17 happy years and a magnificent successor, Archbishop Ronald Hicks. He\u2019s a real gem. I\u2019ve gotten to know him pretty well since I got the call that he was going to be my successor, and I admire him immensely.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n Absolutely. At the same time we have a new archbishop in New York, we also have a new mayor, Zohran Mamdani. I think a lot of Americans, or perhaps some Americans, might have been concerned when they heard him self-identify as a Democratic socialist. The second part of that title, \u201cSocialist\u201d and \u201cDemocratic Socialist,\u201d may be the reason. Some bristled at that title. You met with Mamdani before he became mayor. What can you share about that meeting? What is your takeaway after spending time with him?<\/p>\n Well, they ought to bristle if somebody identifies himself or herself as a socialist. That\u2019s not part of … that\u2019s sort of the opposite of what America is. He\u2019s a refreshingly honest and approachable guy and obviously a man of high ideals, some of which I would disagree with. I asked him point-blank. I said, \u201cWhy did they say you\u2019re a socialist?\u201d He said, \u201cCause I am.\u201d He said, \u201cNow, I\u2019m kind of an economic socialist, not a political one.\u201d Now, \u201csocialism\u201d is defined as what? Government ownership of the means of production. He says, \u201cI\u2019m not that.\u201d He says, \u201cI\u2019m an economic socialist in that I want greater distribution of the wealth.\u201d Well, who doesn\u2019t, in one way? So let\u2019s see. Let\u2019s see. So far, we were ticked off that he didn\u2019t … I was ticked off he didn\u2019t invite me to his inauguration. Most of the time, the archbishop of New York, among other religious leaders, gets invited. I was ticked off that he didn\u2019t have. … He had few, few, few, few, few Catholics on his transition team, okay. And then I was really ticked off that he didn\u2019t show up at the installation of my successor. [Mark Irons: That defied precedent, the mayor not showing up to the installation of the archbishop.] Well, I mean, New York \u2014 one of the many things I love about New York is the amity among the different religions.<\/p>\n We all get together. We all enjoy one another. The ecumenical and interfaith health of this city is phenomenal. And so I show up at all of them, and they show up, and the political leaders always show up, not because of the clout of the Catholic Church, if it has any left, but just out of respect for the fact that a big chunk of the citizens of this great city profess the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church as their family of religious choice; and that the Church has an amazing part to play in the social fabric of this metropolis. He didn\u2019t come. Neither did the governor, by the way.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n Gov. [Kathy] Hochul, who identifies as a Catholic herself.\u00a0<\/p>\n But on Mamdani and the Church\u2019s work with the city on different issues, for those that aren\u2019t aware of this, remind us: What are those areas of conflict with someone like Mayor Mamdani, and are there areas of common ground that the Church can work with?<\/p>\n Well, we would, I hope so, yes. Yes, there should be. Well, areas of conflict, we wouldn\u2019t know yet.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n He has shown some opposition to some of those fundamental life issues the Church is a champion of, it seems like.<\/p>\n We haven\u2019t seen much [Mark Irons: in terms of policy] work that he\u2019s done. But policy, what he professes, I\u2019m afraid he would be an avowed Democrat, meaning he\u2019s not pro-life, right? You worry, is he going to protect religious liberty? You worry if he\u2019s going to protect the dignity and the definition of the family. And you worry, too, we may have some other areas where we\u2019re saying, \u201cHey, not bad.\u201d [Mark Irons: Such as?] His openness to the immigrant, his desire for fair housing, his earnest desire to increase the income and the prosperity of most of the people in this town. If those are issues that he\u2019s favorable to, I\u2019d say, \u201cBingo, let\u2019s go with it.\u201d But you know, Mark, this ain\u2019t our first rodeo. It\u2019s not like his predecessors have been real pro-life and real pro-Church. I mean, we\u2019ve had some tough go with all of them. They\u2019ve had a lot of good. So when I got here, [the mayor] was Mayor Bloomberg, who was a hardworking good guy, extraordinarily good to me, but we had some dissent. De Blasio, very courteous to me, kept in touch a lot. We had a lot of disagreements. Eric Adams \u2014 and now Mamdani.<\/p>\n So it\u2019s not going to be new if there\u2019s some [disagreement]. … No political figure bats a thousand when it comes to \u201cAre their values aligned with those of the Gospel, as professed for 2,000 years faithfully by the Church?\u201d I always figure this: If a politician gets a C-plus, it ain\u2019t bad, all right? Because some of them flunk.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n Well, I want to ask you, for politicians that aren\u2019t Catholic, we might not be surprised when they don\u2019t follow or they\u2019re not influenced by, say, tenets of Catholicism. But for many, there\u2019s scandal when a politician who identifies as Catholic might be doing things against Church teaching, such as Gov. Kathy Hochul, when she signed that assisted-suicide bill. I was wondering if you could lay out for us: A Catholic politician \u2014 what should their work look like? How should their faith influence their policymaking? What does that look like? What does it mean to be a Catholic politician?<\/p>\n Well, it should have a lot of impact. Gov. Hochul says it does. She says that it does. It should have a lot of impact. But Mark, get this. She\u2019s not for things or against things because she\u2019s a Catholic. She\u2019s for things and against things because she\u2019s a thinking, rational human being; any politician this should be, who is guided by the principles that have illuminated a civilization and particularly this country. So, one, a politician isn\u2019t opposed to abortion because he or she happens to be Catholic. That\u2019s baloney. You\u2019re opposed to abortion because it\u2019s a taking of an innocent human life. A Catholic politician isn\u2019t against racism or bigotry because he or she is a Catholic. You bet that the Catholic Church is opposed to that. He or she is opposed to bigotry and racism simply because that is contrary to everything this nation stands for. Correct? You\u2019re talking about kind of human reason. You\u2019re talking about what we have come to call natural law. Now, you are right in that there\u2019s kind of an added scandal.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n People would expect Catholic politicians to follow some of these natural laws.<\/p>\n You would think that. But I wouldn\u2019t say \u2014 for instance, what if a Catholic politician says, \u201cOh, I\u2019m going to propose a law in the legislature that everybody has to go to Mass on Sunday\u201d? We\u2019d say, \u201cNo, they don\u2019t have to go to Mass on Sunday. Don\u2019t even propose that law for Catholics.\u201d All right? Cause that\u2019s a uniquely Catholic cause. Keeping the Sabbath holy, that\u2019s kind of very American, all right? Keeping Sunday special, that\u2019s kind of American. You see the distinction there? [Sure.] It\u2019s not that you get mad at politicians. It might kind of deepen your chagrin when a committed Catholic takes positions that are contrary to the faith. But Catholic positions are Catholic positions because they\u2019re based on human reason, the integrity of the human person, God\u2019s revelation in natural law. Right? You get it? [Mark Irons: I would hope any politician follows that natural law.] You would hope any politician would; an atheist would follow, don\u2019t you think?\u00a0<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n Well, on the topic of Catholic politicians, how would you grade one of the highest-profile Catholic politicians in our country, JD Vance? What grade would you give him so far?<\/p>\n I met him a number of times. He\u2019s a very good guy. I enjoy him a lot. I agree with a bunch of stuff that he talks about, you bet. I would sometimes say, \u201cUh-oh, can\u2019t agree with you there.\u201d He and I had a little t\u00eate-a-t\u00eate, you probably know, when he suggested that bishops in the United States were pro-immigrant \u2019cause we were making money, which I said was not only untrue, it was scurrilous, and he apologized, all right. He says that was out of line, and that\u2019s not true. I think when he speaks about the family, when he speaks about babies, when he speaks about patriotism, when he speaks about what I think is a rather moving view of the beauty of what the United States stands for, I say, \u201cBravo.\u201d Are there other things? I wasn\u2019t too happy with his views on Ukraine. This is before he was vice president. He was not too behind the Ukrainians. But so, there you go again: You\u2019re not going to get anybody batting a thousand. Even Stan Musial, my hero, his lifetime average was what? 3.31, all right. [Mark Irons: I should have known that.] [Both laugh.]<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n \u00a0The Church doesn\u2019t fit in any political box. You yourself are on President Trump\u2019s Religious Liberty Commission. I\u2019m assuming you are happy with what you\u2019re seeing from the administration on that front?<\/p>\n I\u2019m happy with the administration that takes religious freedom very seriously, as I think he did. He\u2019s not the only one. We\u2019ve had a presidential commission on religious liberty for quite a while. I\u2019m not the first Catholic to be on it. I think at least for 30 years, there\u2019s been one. But I\u2019m very honored to be on that.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n Two concerns I hear Catholics bring up with the Trump administration, one being abortion pills. Now, the majority of abortions in the country come from abortion pills; Catholics might ask, or anyone might ask, why hasn\u2019t the administration done more to limit access to abortion pills, to have restrictions or regulations? The second one being concerns about immigration enforcement carried out by the administration. Any thoughts on either one of those topics?<\/p>\n I\u2019d be upset about both of those, as well. So thanks for bringing them up. I\u2019m glad you kind of coupled them together. Because first of all, we are vigorously concerned about the dignity, the life, of the baby in the womb. The more fragile a life, the more we want to protect it and guard it. So these abortion pills, they don\u2019t help. Not only is it bad, in that it flushes away the tiny baby in the womb, it\u2019s bad because it kind of strengthens the opinion that pregnancy is a disease \u2014 that a baby in the womb is someone to get rid of if it happens to be inconvenient or untimely. So this is not all that good. Likewise, are we concerned about another group of fragile people, the baby in the womb? I don\u2019t mind telling you that on the religious freedom [committee], all right \u2014 now, most people are thinking, \u201cOh, I guess there\u2019s Catholics on the religious freedom [committee]. They got to support Trump all the time.\u201d Uh-uh. I don\u2019t mind telling you that Franklin Graham, who\u2019s not a Catholic, and I were very worried when ICE started going into churches and harassing churches. So we had here \u2014 in the Archdiocese of New York \u2014 that ICE would show up during Sunday Mass, just in trucks and cars, and the people wouldn\u2019t come.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n [Mark Irons: That was happening?] That was happening here. I called Rev. Graham and I said, \u201cWe need to bring up to the religious freedom [committee] that this is a violation of religious freedom. People have the right to worship on the Sabbath. The federal government cannot impede that or harass it, and they are. Franklin Graham wisely said, \u201cLet\u2019s bring it to the attention of ICE.\u201d And we did. And the director here in New York said, \u201cThanks for bringing that to my attention. We\u2019re not going to do that here.\u201d<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n And are they stopping that?<\/p>\n I have yet to hear of any other pastor since then tell me that they\u2019re harassing or outside the churches. So you get my point. As you tied together two issues on the pro-life spectrum, I\u2019m glad you did, because there\u2019s a lot of similarity there.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n We talk about Catholic politicians. Let\u2019s talk about Catholic institutions. I\u2019m not sure if you saw, but some of your brother bishops are calling for the rescindment of the appointment of professor Susan Ostermann<\/a>. She was appointed to lead an academic department [editor\u2019s note: Asian studies institute] at the University of Notre Dame. Do you agree with some of those bishops that her appointment should be rescinded? She is a pro-abortion advocate.<\/p>\n I would agree with them heartily. I would agree with Bishop Kevin Rhoades, who\u2019s the bishop there in South Bend. I would agree with Father Miscamble<\/a>, who wrote an eloquent article. I would agree with a good chunk of Notre Dame alumni that this is an ill-advised appointment. Notre Dame is a light to the world, as salt to the earth, to use the words of Jesus. And it stands, again, for that double pillar of Catholic social justice, the dignity of the human person and the sanctity of human life. Anything that any university, particularly a prominent Catholic one, would do to dull that light to the world, we shouldn\u2019t do. So I\u2019m glad. Bishop Rhoades, way to go.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n I want to ask about that video series you\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n Oh, I\u2019m glad. Are you the one listening to it? [Mark Irons: I\u2019ve seen it.] Way to go.<\/p>\n Because I know the ratings went up from two to three listeners. [Mark Irons laughs.] So I\u2019m glad to meet you.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n But seriously, you\u2019ve been doing these posts on social media.<\/p>\n \u201cWorth Recovering<\/a>.\u201d You like those?<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n Why are you doing that?<\/p>\n Well, first of all, I do that daily video. I don\u2019t know what they call them. Are they apps or pods or whatever? [Mark Irons: social media posts.] I am illiterate, Mark. Okay? [Mark Irons: It\u2019s okay.] But all I know is I enjoy doing them. All I know is they\u2019re the easiest things in the world to do. And all I know is I\u2019m deeply grateful for people to listen to them, including you. But I\u2019m always thinking, \u201cWhat am I going to talk about now?\u201d All right? And then a couple of months ago, I said, \u201cYou know what? Were there some Catholic practices, devotions, traditions in the past that may not be part of our faith and morals, but our beautifully supportive Catholic practices that we\u2019ve kind of drifted away from and would it be worth bringing back?\u201d I wrote a list of them, and I had about 40 of them. And so I do it for a minute or a minute and a half every day \u2014 and thanks for telling me \u2014 and they\u2019re simple things: Don\u2019t forget the holy water when you go into church. Don\u2019t forget the genuflection. Don\u2019t forget fasting before Holy Communion. Is that in the Creed? No. Is it important? Yeah. All right. And what about other stuff that nobody thinks about today? What about as you pass a church, which you do about every block here in New York, of making the Sign of the Cross?<\/p>\n Okay, what about even more important things, like more frequent confession? What about the holy days of obligation? What about visiting cemeteries? What about Masses for the deceased? What about the poor souls in purgatory? These are all beautiful Catholic [concepts]. … A sociologist will tell you, Mark Irons, that any human community \u2014 and of course, the Church is a divine community, but it\u2019s got human elements \u2014 needs certain markers to stay coherent \u2014 identifiable traits. We as Catholics used to have a whole buffet of them. They\u2019ve shrunk. No meat on Friday; Lent very seriously for 40 days, not just on Fridays, okay.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n Why is it important to recover some of these things? I\u2019ve heard you talk about, growing up, the parish was the center of Catholic life. Maybe the Church as an institution looked a little different back when you were a kid. Are those days dead? Can we return back to those days?\u00a0<\/p>\n Yes; those are what I call \u201cused-to-be Catholicism.\u201d But it\u2019s not just for us. An intact, coherent Catholic culture, going, going \u2014 gone. Where did they have it? And where they had it intently \u2014 Ireland, Holland, Quebec [thumbs-down gesture].<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n Can we recover those things in the U.S.?<\/p>\n Well, what we\u2019d want to do. … Well, I don\u2019t know \u2014 we haven\u2019t lost it completely. … You know what a culture is? It\u2019s a sense of shared values, dreams and hopes, okay, and practices that solidify and strengthen those. We have to have that. It\u2019s going to look a little different than when I was a kid. And the culture now, Mark, the culture is now chosen instead of inherited. Do you know what I mean? Pope St. John Paul II said, if our religion is only inherited cultural baggage, it ain\u2019t going to persevere.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n You are an expert on Catholicism in this country. [Cardinal Dolan: Well, thanks.] Where does the story of Catholicism in America stand right now, at the 250th anniversary of our country\u2019s founding?\u00a0<\/p>\n Big time. In many ways, never has the Catholic Church had more of an illumination upon our culture. All right? So Catholics are well-educated. They\u2019re prosperous. They have positions of leadership, responsibility and service within our communities. They\u2019re active in government. Those are ways that our Catholic values can influence the land that we love. And that sure wasn\u2019t true at the beginning, right? In 1776, Catholics in the United States were less than 1% of the population, mostly in which states? Pennsylvania, all right, and Maryland. Okay. Now, Catholicism is the largest single Christian denomination. Recent evidence would say we\u2019re getting a little stronger and more numerous after some decades of shrinkage \u2014 people going back to church, people recovering, worth recovering, the faith. But, so, it\u2019s strong. It\u2019s very strong. And from the beginning, Catholic leaders, especially our bishops, have said, you know, it\u2019s a shame that the Church seems to be despised in our culture because Catholic values and American values are very similar. We both believe in the Bible. We both believe in prayer. We both believe in faith. We both believe in religious freedom. We both believe in one nation under God. We both believe in the role of the family.<\/p>\n We both believe in the principle of subsidiarity. We both believe in the power of democracy. We both believe in the drive to protect the common good. Those are Catholic values. Those are American values. We at the beginning said, it\u2019s a shame we ain\u2019t coming together, and we gradually have come closer and closer together. That\u2019s good news, Mark.\u00a0<\/p>\n What\u2019s bad news? The more similar we become to culture, sometimes the more at odds we come with our Catholic beliefs. You know what I\u2019m saying? Have we had to sacrifice anything essential to our faith to get along and be accepted in our culture? We talked about something earlier. For some Catholic politicians, they simply can\u2019t say, \u201cI\u2019m for the life of the baby in the womb. I better not say that because I\u2019ll get nowhere in my party.\u201d That\u2019s a shame. Thank God, Martin Luther King didn\u2019t believe that. You know what? Thank God, the Catholic peace activists in the \u201960s didn\u2019t believe that. They said, \u201cWe don\u2019t care. These are Gospel values, and we\u2019re standing up for them, even if it costs us some cachet in the political system.\u201d So there\u2019s always got to be a countercultural [aspect], right?<\/p>\n While we want to embrace what\u2019s good and beaming in the American culture, we also know that we\u2019re somewhat countercultural. Why? Because our true citizenship is in heaven. And Jesus, our founder, says, \u201cMy kingdom is not of this world.\u201d<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n A Catholic comes to you and says, \u201cBut, Cardinal, I\u2019m American. I\u2019m free. I have the right to choose.\u201d We use the term \u201ccafeteria Catholics.\u201d You might see a lot of Catholics that don\u2019t agree with all the teachings of the Church; they might think they can pick and choose: \u201cWhy not? It\u2019s a free country. Why can\u2019t I do that?\u201d<\/p>\n Hey, remember, according to the Bible, freedom, autonomy, independence is not the license to do whatever you want, whenever you want, with whomever you want, wherever you want. It\u2019s the ability to do what we ought \u2014 what we ought. That\u2019s genuine freedom. That\u2019s true freedom.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n On the topic of the Pope, 250th anniversary of America\u2019s founding, we have our first American Pope. [Cardinal Dolan: Yeah, is that good news?] Not bad timing, right?<\/p>\n Not bad, huh?<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n I want to ask you one thing: Catholics, towards the end of Pope Francis\u2019 time, heard a lot about synodality. I\u2019m curious. A lot of them still had questions. What does that mean? Is that something that\u2019s still happening in the Church? Is that still a project of Pope Leo in the Church? Is this something that we just heard with Francis? What did he mean by synodality?<\/p>\n No, I think Pope Francis was wise in saying \u2014 he didn\u2019t say, \u201cOh, we need to invent this new idea of synodality.\u201d He kind of says, \u201cSynodality is an important component of the Church\u2019s rhythm and process in the world.\u201d And it\u2019s been there since the Acts of the Apostles. We’ve always had it. I think he wanted to … and you talk about \u201cworth recovering,\u201d I think he wanted to refine it. He wanted to strengthen it. He wanted to highlight it. But it\u2019s not some dashing new idea. We\u2019ve been doing it all the time. Most of a bishop\u2019s day, most of a priest\u2019s day, most of a serious Catholic\u2019s day, would be, if he or she is within the church, would be in synodality. We\u2019re on parish councils. We\u2019re on the school council. We\u2019re on religious-ed council. I got my priest council. I got my religious women council. I got the finance council. I got the health-care council. This is all synodality, when you\u2019re sitting around with tremendously enlightened, committed Catholics who share with you their application of the teaching of Jesus. \u00a0… We\u2019ve got it. Our bishops\u2019 conference since the days of John Carroll \u2014 he became our first bishop.<\/p>\n He\u2019s called his priests together. He\u2019s called his brother bishops together. Okay, this is synodality. It\u2019s a good thing. It\u2019s been going on in the Church for a long time. Bravo, Pope Francis. Thanks for saying, \u201cHey, let\u2019s not forget synodality. It\u2019s a good thing. Let\u2019s be grateful for it. Let\u2019s make sure we got it.\u201d And I think we do. So let\u2019s move on.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n This year will be the 25th anniversary of 9\/11. As archbishop, you\u2019ve had year after year to commemorate this tragedy.<\/p>\n We do. It\u2019s big. It\u2019s almost become a holy day of obligation here in the Catholic family of New York because it has such an impact. I mean, we still, we would gather every 9\/11. I\u2019d go to fire stations. I\u2019d go to precincts. We\u2019d go to the site. We would go to cemeteries. We would go to parishes where people still mourned those killed 25 years ago. It\u2019s still vivid, vivid, vivid memories. And so, since 9\/11, we\u2019ve had two popes visit the United States, Benedict XVI and Francis. Both of them said, we want to go to 9\/11, because it has international impact.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n You\u2019ve been coming to \u201cNew York Encounter\u201d for years.<\/p>\n I have.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n What do you make of this movement?<\/p>\n Is this your first one? [Mark Irons: Second.] It\u2019s your second one. Are you familiar with Comunione e Liberazione [Communion and Liberation]?<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n I\u2019m learning more about it.<\/p>\n Father [Luigi] GiussanI \u2014 and a great guy. I love Comunione e Liberazione. I\u2019m grateful that they\u2019re in the archdiocese. I keep teasing them that I can\u2019t understand a word he wrote. But all I know is, as Jesus said, by the fruits you\u2019ll know them. So when you see \u2014 always on presidents\u2019 weekend \u2014 you\u2019d have thousands of people come; many of them young men and women and young families. There\u2019s always a traffic jam here, I joke, of baby carriages. And so even if you\u2019re unfamiliar with Comunione e Liberazione, Communion and Liberation, you can\u2019t help but love what they do. By their fruits you will know them. And one of Father Giussani\u2019s great insights was that when we speak about the faith, when we speak about the revelation of God, when we speak about our Catholic family, we\u2019re just not talking about some little squared-off area of our life. We\u2019re talking about an integrated, coherent vision of life. So anything that enhances the human person, anything that promotes truth, goodness and beauty is part of the Catholic vision. And anything we can do to enhance that and to strengthen that, let\u2019s do it. And that\u2019s what this weekend does, the \u201cEncounter.\u201d<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n Last question: As a New Yorker, you might be familiar with The New York Times bestseller list. I want to get Cardinal Dolan\u2019s bestseller list. What are your book recommendations? I know you\u2019re well-read. Give me some book recommendations for people who are just starting their journey of Catholicism, wanting to grow in faith, and maybe some recommendations for someone who wants to develop their faith further. Any book recommendations?<\/p>\n Well, sure. Here\u2019s what we can\u2019t forget, all right? EWTN, by the way, does a fine job in often promoting what we call lectio divina. Lectio divina means \u201cdivine reading\u201d the Bible, all right? So whenever somebody says, \u201cHey, you got a good book that I should read?\u201d I said, \u201cYeah, have you ever read the Gospel of Mark?\u201d \u201cWell, I haven\u2019t sat down and read it, but I hear it.\u201d I said, \u201cRead that.\u201d Okay, so we never want to [Mark Irons: Start with the Bible.] Secondly, Mark, let\u2019s not ignore the Catechism, the Catechism of the Catholic Church. What is it now? About 30, it\u2019s over 30 years of age. A magnificent book, not just this reference, but a beautifully flowing catechesis instruction on the life of faith. Okay. Let\u2019s not forget \u2014 and I\u2019m thrilled that Pope Leo XIV is calling us back to that \u2014 let\u2019s talk about the documents of the Second Vatican Council. Those are masterpieces. As commentators, as historians on the Second Vatican Council that now was 60 years ago when it ended, said, one of the tragedies of the Second Vatican Council is that 99. 9% of Catholics never read the documents. We thought we knew what they said as we listened to the 20-second summaries from Walter Cronkite each night.<\/p>\n No. Read the bloomin\u2019 documents of the Second Vatican Council. All right? So what else? You want a humdinger? How about Fulton Sheen\u2019s Life of Christ<\/a>? [Mark: Good time to do Fulton Sheen now, right?] Fulton Sheen Life of Christ.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n You\u2019re excited about the beatification?<\/p>\n You bet I am. What about some of the old classics, The Imitation of Christ<\/a>? You read it? What about … I was out with a … if I said the name, you would recognize immediately. [Mark Irons: You should tell us.] But I can\u2019t say the name because when I\u2019m with this person, it\u2019s … anyway. We always talk about what we\u2019re reading. This guy is not a Catholic. He\u2019s religious in the generic sense of the word because we talk about religion. We always talk about \u201cWhat are you reading?\u201d He said, \u201cOh, I just finished Story of a Soul<\/a>, the autobiography by the Little Flower, St. Th\u00e9r\u00e8se of Lisieux.\u201d I said, \u201cYou read that?\u201d He said, \u201cYeah. I was looking at a list, and it said, \u2018You’re interested in the interior life and the beauty and the tremendous heavenly power of a humble, simple childlike soul? Read this.\u2019\u201d And he said, \u201cI\u2019m glad I did.\u201d There\u2019s some.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n Thank you so much. Cardinal Dolan, thank you so much for taking the time.<\/p>\n Mark, see you next year at the \u201cEncounter.\u201d [Mark Irons: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you.] God bless EWTN.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Cardinal Timothy Dolan, archbishop emeritus of New York, recently sat down in New York with EWTN News national…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":141010,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[4712,9,24,55,54,56],"class_list":{"0":"post-141009","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-new-york-city","8":"tag-cardinal-dolan","9":"tag-new-york","10":"tag-new-york-city","11":"tag-new-york-city-headlines","12":"tag-new-york-city-news","13":"tag-ny"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/141009","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=141009"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/141009\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/141010"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=141009"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=141009"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=141009"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}