Of course, Rosen\u2019s success came with its requisite setbacks. He lost prizes over the years like the Chrysler Building<\/a>. Yet, it has done little to dampen his confidence, his ease or his charm.<\/p>\n And, whatever the downs, the recent ups have been pretty wild. RFR has sold about $2 billion worth of property in the last 18 months. This might sound like a company heading for the exits if you didn\u2019t also take into account just how much property RFR has under its purview ($18 billion to $19 billion worth, per Rosen). Moreover, it recently refinanced the Seagram Building to the tune of $1.2 billion.<\/p>\n One almost feels the energy (but not the anger) in the lobby of Seagram \u2014 aka, 375 Park Avenue, where RFR\u2019s offices are located \u2014 when one stumbles upon a striking Koons piece of the Incredible Hulk surrounded by golden bugles, situated at the eastern end of the elevator bank.<\/p>\n Hear the roar, Gotham. Aby Rosen has a lot to say.<\/p>\n This interview has been edited for length and clarity.<\/p>\n Commercial Observer: You guys have historically been in a lot of spaces in Midtown. Broadly, how do you view the Midtown market right now?<\/p>\n Aby Rosen: The Midtown market has always been good. It\u2019s now even better. I think people realized if you\u2019re in walking distance to the Upper East Side, the Upper West Side, transportation, Grand Central, Penn Station \u2014 that\u2019s the place to be. I think One Vanderbilt did a great job highlighting that. I think resi is pushing down from Midtown toward Grand Central. There\u2019s conversions going on 43rd Street \u2014 you know, the old Apple Bank is getting converted to resi; 520 Fifth went to resi, and some office. So that neighborhood\u2019s on fire.\u00a0<\/p>\n They\u2019d fixed and cleaned up Bryant Park extremely well. I think everybody who invested money there did the right thing \u2014 I think hotels, restaurants, transportation is going well, mainly. That\u2019s why Grand Central is, was and will only get better and more in demand.<\/p>\n Are you on the hunt for properties in Midtown?<\/p>\n I\u2019m always on the hunt. I\u2019ve not stopped hunting since I came to this town on Dec. 11, 1987. It\u2019s not surprising that I would like Grand Central \u2014 we\u2019ve always been there. We owned 520, 516, 518 Fifth; 521 Fifth; 18 East 41st; 275 Madison; 285 Madison. We owned 475 Fifth, we built a 425 Fifth, a brand-new resi with Michael Graves. We\u2019ve always been in that neighborhood, and still liking it.<\/p>\n One of your huge things this year was the refinancing of the Seagram Building. Can you tell me a little about that?<\/p>\n Look, Seagram will always demand the highest rents, or one of the highest rents, in town. We always push the rents pretty far up. We renovated the building once Wells Fargo left \u2014 installed a playground in the lower level, which is a 35,000-square-foot kind of amenity basketball court, meeting spaces. Plus, redoing the Seagram restaurants, which was in those days the Four Seasons \u2014 now they\u2019re the Grill, the Pool and the Lobster Club. We spent 40 million bucks upgrading those restaurants, and they are now among the top-grossing restaurants in this Midtown area.<\/p>\n I think the modernization of 375 is going on a constant basis. When you own the landmarks, you can\u2019t stop. You are basically always adding new things to it to keep it relevant, to keep it modern, to keep it active. We just installed three new sculptures of Koons down in the lobby \u2014 the Hulk, which shows strength and resilience, which is definitely something that RFR has always been associated with. This town has cycles, as you know, and we live with the cycles,\u00a0 and we lose some luster once in a while, and then we shine again. That\u2019s the name of the game. And anybody who doesn\u2019t know that is a fool.<\/p>\n So, after a period of nothing going on, the recap market is there. Our loan matured, we took one extension, then executed this year a great $1.2 billion financing \u2014 no mess, straight securitized paper. And cash flow is going up, and going up, and going up. Demand for the space is incredible. We have tenants who want to expand, and we cannot always accommodate them. Clayton Dubilier was here for 25 years. They needed more space, we couldn\u2019t give it to them, and they moved. There\u2019s another tenant who we are looking to help expand, but we are at the seams. We bought it in 2000, the net operating income was $13 million. Now the NOI is approaching roughly $100 million.<\/p>\n Art has been such a big part of your image. How do you think the art scene has changed in New York?<\/p>\n Look, I think it has and it has not changed. There\u2019s a lot more primary galleries that popped off the last 20, 30 years, because there was such a trend and such a desire to explore fresh new art, young artists.<\/p>\n The better dealers, the better auction houses that now have private sales, are basically working on quality. It\u2019s all about quality, quality, quality \u2014 recognizable art, stuff that has been around for 20, 30, 40 years. I think there\u2019s a trend to quality that also happened with residential, that has happened with housing, that has happened with office space. We all learned that quality is good. Better quality, the longer longevity, the less volatility.<\/p>\n The art market is changing. If you look at the art fairs, they are not all about the art, they are about pumping merchandise \u2014 they\u2019re pumping labels, they\u2019re pumping logos. Private bankers have hijacked the art fairs. There\u2019s a UBS lounge, there\u2019s a Credit Suisse lounge, there is a Wells Fargo lounge. The residential developer suddenly has a booth where they\u2019re peddling and selling art, selling their residential high-rise. You go to Miami Basel, and it becomes like a cross promotion, and, indeed, if you end at 12 o\u2019clock, you don\u2019t even know where you are. Did you go to a fashion show? Did you go to an art placement? Did you go to somebody\u2019s house because it\u2019s for sale? So, it has all melted and mixed together.<\/p>\n But the newbie \u2014 the newcomer with fresh clean money \u2014 he\u2019s having the time of his life. He\u2019s invited, he\u2019s hosted, he can mingle with celebrities. It\u2019s a very nice environment if you\u2019re looking for that kind of easy entry into socialization.\u00a0<\/p>\n Discovering the new artist, though, does seem to be the problem.<\/p>\n If you\u2019re a fashionista you\u2019re going to off-label places. You go to certain places in Japan. You look for the best denim and the newest this, and the newest that. I find this exciting, but I\u2019ll concede others find it pretty boring.<\/p>\n I wanted to ask about the Chrysler Building. Tell us the story from your perspective?<\/p>\n It\u2019s a story that was told already before, so I\u2019m not going to rehash it. So, Chrysler we bought. We brought in an Austrian partner \u2014 a friend of ours, a company called Signa. We did a lot of work with them \u2014\u00a0 shopping centers,\u00a0 offices \u2014 in Europe. Signa got into financial troubles, and filed a $30 billion bankruptcy, which didn\u2019t help. But that\u2019s the partnership you choose.<\/p>\n So, we took over that partnership at one point, funded ongoing shortfalls. COVID hit. Everybody got nervous. Nobody wanted to invest. We then continued to rehab the building, couldn\u2019t finish up the job with Cooper Union [the ground lease owner].<\/p>\n They were slightly, how would I say, complicated. Not because they wanted to be complicated, just because I think they\u2019re academics. They are basically a learning institution, and, for them, real estate is something that they\u2019re all scared of. So, they have 20, 30 people; there\u2019s a bottleneck; nobody made decisions; they were unreasonable.<\/p>\n We always believed this was a partnership \u2014 they did not see this as a partnership. They saw this as \u201cI own the land, I make the rules, you work for me, because you are paying me rent, and I\u2019m gonna give you as little rope as possible.\u201d I believe if you look at successful leasehold fee ownership structures, you got to work together. We didn\u2019t see that. That\u2019s why at one point we gave back the keys and said, \u201cHave a nice day.\u201d<\/p>\n I don\u2019t want to blame my partner for not being able to fund \u2014 but it didn\u2019t help. I blame myself for having not seen the difficulty with an institution like Cooper Union to come to a smart resolution. So, we lick our wounds, we move on, we lost a couple of hundred million bucks, and we go to the next asset. Whoever\u2019s stepping in, I wish them luck.<\/p>\n What do you think they need to do to be successful?<\/p>\n I told them so many times, they know exactly what they need to do. They need to get in bed with somebody, create a partnership, a venture, a kind of alignment, and then let\u2019s make money together. If only one says, \u201cI want, I want, I want, I want,\u201d and \u201cI don\u2019t care what you do, and if you can hang yourself, fine,\u201d it\u2019ll fail. But they want it all. They want control, they don\u2019t want to participate in the downside, they only want the upside.<\/p>\n Believe it or not, I\u2019m still in it to participate in that bidding again \u2014 because I still believe that I\u2019m very much the right venture partner with Cooper to do this. I invested a couple hundred million\u00a0 bucks, I don\u2019t mind putting in another $100 to $200 million to do that. So we are still monitoring what\u2019s happening there, especially owning the development site next door. They\u2019ll come back to us eventually if they can\u2019t figure it out. Or if they don\u2019t come back, it\u2019s fine too \u2014 I wish them all the best.<\/p>\n You guys had a big sale to Amazon at 522 Fifth Avenue<\/a>. Tell us a little bit about that.<\/p>\n We bought 522 also five and a half years ago. It was a sale-leaseback with Morgan Stanley\u2019s private wealth office. The retail was owned by Deka Immobilien. We started our redevelopment plan. Then the note was sold to somebody else \u2014 and SL Green came in and bought the note to redevelop it with us \u2014 and we were ready to go. Amazon<\/a> knocked at our door, saying, \u201cDo you want to sell it?\u201d And I said, \u201cI want X.\u201d They said, \u201cWhat about Z?\u201d We agreed to 450 million bucks.\u00a0<\/p>\n And nine days later it was out the door \u2014 signed.<\/p>\n Oh, my God.<\/p>\n When Amazon wants something, they\u2019ll get something done. We have a lot of Amazon relationships back on the West Coast. We own a lot of properties with them, and they were as great of a buyer as you will ever see. Smart, educated, knowledgeable. The real estate team was fantastic, and it was painless, which was nice to say in today\u2019s environment.\u00a0<\/p>\n We paid SL Green off \u2014 they made a hefty profit and we moved on, and there\u2019s nothing wrong with a good sale.<\/p>\n
![\"Aby](\"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/102225_CO_AbyRosen_021_HiRes-WEB.jpg\" "\\"RFR\u2019s")