Pujol\u2019<\/a>s residency at WSA. The mole has been maturing for over 3,000 days, and was complex in ways that I didn\u2019t know were possible\u2014it was deep, grounded, and warm. Enrique, of course, is the chef\/owner of Pujol, a restaurant that, more than any other, put contemporary Mexican cuisine on the map. This year marks the 25th anniversary of Pujol, and in that time, Enrique has received every possible accolade a chef could ever want. Now he\u2019s looking forward, and he\u2019s also looking back. He\u2019s not slowing down just yet, but he\u2019s ready to have some fun.<\/p>\nJ LEE: Thank you so much for taking the time.<\/p>\n
ENRIQUE OLVERA: Thank you for giving me a break.<\/p>\n
LEE: So you\u2019re bringing Pujol to New York? Is it Pu-yol or Pu-hol?<\/p>\n
OLVERA: We pronounce ourselves \u201cPu-yol,\u201d but we don\u2019t take it seriously, so you can pronounce it whichever way you want. Some people make fun of the name because it sounds like \u201cpoo hole.\u201d<\/p>\n
LEE: Why is it called Pujol?<\/p>\n
OLVERA: It\u2019s a nickname that I got when I was in high school. It doesn\u2019t have meaning. It\u2019s a name. The meaning of it is like a small hill in Catalonia, but it really doesn\u2019t have meaning; it\u2019s just a proper name. It\u2019s something that we\u2019ve always liked for restaurants. Cosme is just a name. Dami\u00e1n is just a name. Pujol is just a name. Imagine if a restaurant was called John, it would be great, right?<\/p>\n
LEE: Yeah, it would be great. So Pujol is 25 this year. And then it\u2019s also been 10 years of Cosme this year, right?<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Yeah. We\u2019re getting older, man.<\/p>\n
LEE: It\u2019s crazy.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: We\u2019re getting older. I feel like we\u2019re in a good place now, a little bit more calm. It feels like we\u2019re in a place that we can enjoy ourselves now and do things that we really love to do, like this pop-up with Resy at WSA. I think we\u2019ve had the recognition that we never actually dreamed of, so much recognition. So it\u2019s more like now trying to use that blessing to do things that are amazing instead of pursuing more.<\/p>\n
LEE: Another thing that was 10 years ago now is your Chef\u2019s Table episode. I remember you saying that you should have as much fun cooking as you have eating. I love that. It really resonated with me. Sometimes you go to a restaurant and you can taste that they\u2019re not having fun.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Yeah. For example, I like jogging now. And when you\u2019re jogging for fun, your stride is very easy, and you\u2019re listening to music, and now you\u2019re watching the sunrise and breathing the air. Some people are running and they\u2019re really struggling, nd I think the more at ease you are, the easier it is to have fun doing it. But to be able to have fun doing it, you have to be in the rhythm. You have to have a lot of practice. And 25 years is a lot of practice. This is also one of the reasons that we\u2019re able to enjoy it. I like this analogy that cooking is a little bit like theater, that you\u2019re doing it every day. Of course there are good days and bad days, but if you\u2019re having fun and enjoying it, you most probably would have a lot more better days than if you\u2019re very uptight and nervous.<\/p>\n
LEE: I spoke to Mario Carbone last week. He talks a lot about theater. Do you feel like you are the ringleader of a circus, or the director of a play?<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Mario\u2019s restaurant group is very theatrical. I love The Grill. It\u2019s one of my favorite restaurants.<\/p>\n
LEE: It\u2019s the best restaurant.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: But I do agree that restaurants are like a choreography. In that sense, no, your restaurant doesn\u2019t need to be theatrical, but if you have really good preparation, then you can enjoy the play, right? Even if you\u2019re acting. If your preparation sucks, you\u2019re probably not enjoying the play. I see it more, I think, from a dynamic perspective. The idea is also that you have a whole experience. Obviously the food must be so precise, so simple, that people should want to know how you did it. I always tell the waiters, we shouldn\u2019t explain. People should ask for explanations.<\/p>\n
LEE: It\u2019s a magic show.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Imagine you go into a restaurant and then the waiter gives you a huge explanation of the dish. You taste it and you go, \u201cOh, okay.\u201d The difference is, sometimes when I travel in these small towns in Mexico, I have a very simple soup in a very humble house up in the mountain, and you taste it and you go like, \u201cWhat did you put in this?\u201d And they go like, \u201cNothing. Just garlic, onions, and some leaves.\u201d<\/p>\n
LEE: Is it just the ingredients?<\/p>\n
OLVERA: It\u2019s the quality of the ingredients, their exposure to the sun. That\u2019s the difference between a great tomato soup and an average tomato soup. It\u2019s the tomatoes. We as cooks, we\u2019re not magicians.<\/p>\n
LEE: You\u2019re alchemists a bit, at least.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Yeah. I cannot make the best tomato soup if I don\u2019t have good tomatoes. Even if I can put spices and make it taste like something else, it won\u2019t make it a great tomato soup. If you want the best tomato soup, you need good tomatoes. And in order to get good tomatoes, you need for them to mature on the plant and to have amazing soil.<\/p>\n
LEE: So you\u2019re doing this pop-up at WSA, you\u2019re out of your element. I know that you are very familiar with New York, but this is a whole new space, certainly lots of new staff, new silverware, new produce purveyors. One, how do you try to translate your choreography of the dining room to a space like this? Do you build a new choreography? Two, your cooking is so ingredient-driven, and I\u2019m sure there are some things you can\u2019t get here in New York, so how do you reconcile those things and try to make something that feels like you and like Pujol?<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Pujol moved to a new location in 2016, and the old location was pretty much this exact same size as our space at WSA. So we tried to mimic the original location of Pujol. The dining room over there was also black and white, so we did everything black and white. The staff is dressing the same way we used to dress in the early years, which is like a black-on-black tie. As far as cooking, we\u2019re doing dishes that I think work both for Mexico and New York. And then we\u2019re switching the ingredients so that we are using local products.<\/p>\n
LEE: So are you doing the mole?<\/p>\n
OLVERA: We\u2019re doing the mole, that we brought all the way from Mexico. Thank god. They\u2019ll kill me if we don\u2019t do it.<\/p>\n
LEE: In the past year specifically it\u2019s gotten a lot better, but I\u2019ve never quite understood why New York doesn\u2019t have a lot of great Mexican food.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: I think it\u2019s bad corn. And I think also it was lack of understanding on how to make the adjustments. You\u2019re going to have to make some adjustments. Talking about authentic tacos is always a very tricky conversation.<\/p>\n
LEE: Any kind of idea of authenticity is always going to be led by someone that\u2019s annoying.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: And tacos are so diverse. They have so many different backgrounds. And you can make a taco almost out of anything. You see tacos in New York that say they\u2019re authentic Mexico City tacos, which doesn\u2019t really mean much. I would love that there would be New York-style tacos, kind of like with American pizza styles, like deep dish. So maybe, hopefully instead of saying, \u201cOh, we\u2019re doing Mexico City tacos in New York,\u201d we\u2019re doing New York tacos with great corn. California has its own Mexican, there\u2019s TexMex. I think we need New York Mexican.<\/p>\n
LEE: Yeah, that\u2019s true. I\u2019m trying to think what my definition of New York-Mexican would be. What\u2019s a New York-Mexican burrito?<\/p>\n
OLVERA: You would have to see what the street food looks like in New York and work from there.<\/p>\n
LEE: Yeah, maybe. I hope it doesn\u2019t have to be Halal Guys in a burrito form.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Pretzel burrito.<\/p>\n
LEE: Everything\u2019s spiced.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: We have to figure it out.<\/p>\n
LEE: We\u2019ll figure it out.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: We\u2019ll try to make it fun, too, because tacos should be fun. It\u2019s fun to eat, democratic.<\/p>\n
LEE: I feel like we are only scratching the surface of the diversity of tacos here. It\u2019s getting better, but I really would love to see more.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: And who has done a great job, and sometimes he doesn\u2019t get the recognition with tacos, is (Alex) Stupak. Stupak has done some very interesting tacos. He did a hamburger taco once. I think he\u2019s a very creative and an amazing guy.<\/p>\n
LEE: So is the taco defined by just the vessel? Could you have a rice paper taco?<\/p>\n
OLVERA: You could.<\/p>\n
LEE: Would a spring roll be a taco?<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Yeah, of course. I think pizza is a lot more purist than tacos. We were discussing the other day, you can mess up a lot. I mean, you can be a little bit creative, but nobody gets crazy creative with the filling of a pizza.<\/p>\n
LEE: Yeah. I\u2019m from Chicago. We get a little too creative with that.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: The most creative is a Hawaiian-style pizza.<\/p>\n
LEE: That\u2019s pretty good.<\/p>\n
![\"\"](\"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/R0007731-scaled.jpg\")
<\/p>\n
OLVERA: But with a taco, I think you can get creative with the flour. No, you can do yucca, you can do wheat. You can do rice paper like you said. I personally like the fillings to be very simple. And then with the salsas, you can get crazy creative.<\/p>\n
LEE: I read an article recently that was saying the hallmark of Mexico City tacos is the minimalism of the toppings.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Most taquerias that are old school do tend to be very simple. And also they never combine styles. So if you\u2019re doing carnitas, it\u2019s only carnitas. If you\u2019re doing al pastor, it\u2019s only al pastor. Modern places have been getting a bit more creative.<\/p>\n
LEE: I\u2019m guilty of being a huge Orinoco fan. It\u2019s so good.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Orinoco is great, especially at night.<\/p>\n
LEE: I only go after some tequila or whatever.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: It\u2019s good. It\u2019ll knock you out.<\/p>\n
LEE: Yeah.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Completely. Yeah.<\/p>\n
LEE: In these 25 years of Pujol, even in the 10 years since Cosme opened, Mexico City has changed so much. How do you think the city has changed, and how has it impacted your restaurants?<\/p>\n
OLVERA: It has become more cosmopolitan, not only because of tourism, but because of the people that are living there. I think this is a great thing for Mexico City. One of the beauties of Mexico City is that it\u2019s very layered. You see the pre-Hispanic Mexico City, the colonial Mexico City, the French influence from the Porfirio days, and then you see the modern Mexico. Adding another layer of cosmopolitan people and restaurants and culture, I think is great for the city.<\/p>\n
LEE: I\u2019ve heard people have been critical of how expensive things are getting.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Yes, in certain places. But for example, Colonia Roma was a place of mansions in the Porfirio D\u00edaz Ages. It\u2019s saying like you\u2019re gentrifying Central Park. That was one of the richest areas in Mexico. So we have to also be a little bit careful.<\/p>\n
LEE: It also has to do with a lot that Americans who don\u2019t understand the economics of Mexico. There is wealth, but there is also a class divide.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: It\u2019s a fact that it\u2019s getting very, very expensive. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s because people are moving there. I think what\u2019s happening is that in Mexico, everybody\u2019s pushing the prices. Not the tourists, everybody.<\/p>\n
LEE: So, after all the change in Mexico City, and 25 years of Cosme, what do you do now?<\/p>\n
OLVERA: We\u2019re trying to do what we love the most, which are things like this pop-up at WSA. We\u2019re also doing a pop-up where we\u2019re making conchas. I\u2019m going to Copenhagen in December to cook for a block party. Next year, we\u2019re opening a taco counter in Mexico City.<\/p>\n
LEE: Lots of things.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Yeah. The Pujol menu now changes entirely every four months, and we\u2019re doing different regions of Mexico. So right now we\u2019re in the Maya, so it\u2019s like Yucat\u00e1n, Quintana, Campeche, Tabasco. Next season will be Oaxaca. So we\u2019re changing the menus and then also doing a loop. Being able to come back to the dishes is so important, because there\u2019s a learning that sometimes you discard if you change the menu all the time. I think every time you come back to the dishes, it\u2019s an opportunity to make it better.<\/p>\n
LEE: I used to be an artist, and I think sometimes I look back on my old work and I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat the fuck was I thinking? What is this? I hate it.\u201d Do you feel that way about your old dishes, or do you look back at all of them fondly?<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Yeah, some of them. And some of them I also go like, \u201cThis was great.\u201d I think 90 percent you feel ashamed, and then 10 percent you go, \u201cOh, that was genius.\u201d So hopefully the next, I\u2019m not going to say 25, because I don\u2019t want to work 25 more years, but say the next 10 years would be about repetition. 10 years, and then I\u2019m out.<\/p>\n
LEE: Ten years?<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Yeah. I don\u2019t want to work till I\u2019m 70. I don\u2019t have that personality. I mean, probably after 60, not retired, but yes, at least working minimally.<\/p>\n
LEE: Puerto Vallarta?<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Maybe more a farm.<\/p>\n
LEE: A farm.<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Yeah.<\/p>\n
LEE: That\u2019s fun. What do you want to grow?<\/p>\n
OLVERA: Yeah, maybe a place in Oaxaca. Just have a very simple life. And I wouldn\u2019t produce anything commercially. It would be just for me, my family. A few dogs, maybe some grandchildren.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Enrique Olvera is deep, grounded, and warm. He has a wisdom and an ease that come with age,…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":51860,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[28808,28809,28810,9,24,55,54,56,28811],"class_list":["post-51859","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-new-york-city","tag-cooked","tag-enrique-olvera","tag-j-lee","tag-new-york","tag-new-york-city","tag-new-york-city-headlines","tag-new-york-city-news","tag-ny","tag-pujol"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/51859","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=51859"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/51859\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/51860"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=51859"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=51859"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=51859"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
![\"\"](\"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us-ny\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/11\/R0007734-scaled.jpg\")
<\/p>\n