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A woman called into “The Ramsey Show” recently to ask for help paying down an overwhelming amount of debt: $628,000. Hosts Dave Ramsey and Ken Coleman didn’t dance around the issue.

Sandra, a 45-year-old single mother from Chicago, explained she had a mortgage of $335,000, student loans totaling $260,000, and $33,000 in credit card debt. She currently earns around $115,000 working in legal research, and used to bring in an extra $25,000 consulting for libraries before stopping that side gig six months ago.

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She has four degrees: an associate’s in biological science, a bachelor’s in English, a master’s in library science, and a second master’s in intellectual property law. Despite all of this education, she finds herself drowning in debt and unsure of the next step.

Ramsey was quick to diagnose the core issue. “You have a lot of education and a lot of upside potential therefore on your income,” he said. “If we can figure out a way to apply that education in a way that makes you more money, which is what you need is more money and not more degrees.” He questioned why Sandra would buy a $335,000 house while already carrying more than $300,000 in student loans, calling it “backasswards.”

Ramsey pushed Sandra to consider whether she could sit for the bar exam. She admitted she didn’t look into it. “You’ve got a degree in research. You should probably look into that,” Coleman replied frankly, after which Ramsey burst out laughing.

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“You’re making $100,000 or $120,000 with 14 degrees. This is not working,” Ramsey said. He suggested her current income is out of step with her credentials and told her to figure out how to better leverage her skills, possibly in the legal or intellectual property field.

Coleman added that a lot of smart people exchange the fear of uncertainty for the comfort of doing something they think is valuable, like more education.

Ramsey agreed. “It sounds like you fell for the lie that if I get education, people will hand me money—and they’re not.”

He continued, “And then you went and got another piece of education, and then another piece of education. You’ve collected more degrees than a thermometer.” Ramsey made it clear he wasn’t bashing her education—he just meant that stacking up degrees won’t help if you’re not turning that knowledge into actual income.

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Both hosts emphasized that the key now is to stop adding degrees and start finding real ways to earn more. Coleman told Sandra to focus on applying her knowledge in ways that result in significantly higher income. “How do I make an additional $50,000 to $75,000 while I’m deciding what passing the bar looks like?” he asked.

As for selling the house to pay off debt? Not yet. Sandra only has about $15,000 in equity. Ramsey said it may help down the road, but the bigger issue is income.

He concluded by urging listeners to rethink their view of higher education. “The degree is useless. The knowledge you get while you’re getting the degree—that knowledge is great power, assuming it’s knowledge that the marketplace wants.”

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This article Dave Ramsey Responds To A Woman With 4 Degrees And $628,000 In Debt: You Fell For The Lie That If You Get Education, People Will Hand You Money originally appeared on Benzinga.com