In this episode of Space Minds, host David Ariosto speaks with Max Haot, CEO of Vast, the ambitious aerospace company based in Long Beach, California, one of a very few companies working diligently towards the first commercial space station.<\/p>\n
Just days after the successful launch of Vast\u2019s pathfinder mission, Haot shares what it was like to see their Haven demo spacecraft come to life in orbit \u2014 from tense moments in the control room to the triumph of first contact. We talk about their next big step, Haven-1, set to become one of the first privately built, human-rated orbital habitat, and how Vast plans to ensure a seamless transition from the International Space Station to a new era of commercial space infrastructure. Haot also discusses safety, competition, and the future business of living and working in low Earth orbit \u2014 all part of Vast\u2019s vision to make space permanently accessible.<\/p>\n
Click here for Notes and Transcript<\/p>\n
Time Markers<\/p>\n
00:00 \u2013 Episode introduction
00:33 \u2013 Welcome Max
00:45 \u2013 A big week
05:03 \u2013 Industry superstitions
05:52 \u2013 Purpose of the Haven demo mission
08:30 \u2013 Haven demo described (with on-orbit video)
10:14 \u2013 What is Haven-1
10:33 \u2013 Dragon spacecraft and Haven-1
13:17 \u2013 Safety and business pressures
20:25 \u2013 NASA collaboration and commercial balance
21:11 \u2013 Haven-2, Falcon Heavy and Starship
22:48 \u2013 Competition and the race for first
27:58 \u2013 Business model and customers<\/p>\n
Transcript \u2013 Max Haot Conversation<\/p>\n
This transcript has been edited-for-clarity.<\/p>\n
David Ariosto \u2013 Max Haot, CEO of a very interesting aerospace company out there in Long Beach, California called Vast. You\u2019ve had a big week, and I just kind of want to get right into this \u2014 the makings of the first commercial space station, which has never been done before, is sort of now in the works. The so-called Pathfinder mission for the station launched over the weekend, opened its solar arrays, began testing everything from flight computers, avionics, communication systems, thrusters, you name it. And this has been a journey for you guys. I wonder if we could just start this conversation walking me through that day \u2014 where you were on that Sunday, what it was like to take something from the factory floor and put it on orbit and have all of this start to feel a little bit more real?<\/p>\n
Max Haot \u2013 Yeah, it\u2019s been quite the adventure. You know, the first thing is that I\u2019ve launched satellites before. One time, I was at the Cape for the launch, and the first learning is \u2014 never do that again. Be in the control room, right there with the team, and be there to troubleshoot any issue or at least understand what\u2019s going on and lead.<\/p>\n
And so that day, you know, the launch was at 10, Saturday at 10:06 or 10:09 p.m. We had about 600 of our 1,000 employees all spending their Saturday night here. We designed our control room \u2014 you can see it right there \u2014 with our mission operators controlling Haven Demo on orbit. But we\u2019ve designed our headquarters so that you can have a lot of people participate and see it behind the glass.<\/p>\n
So launch, obviously, SpaceX Falcon 9 \u2014 so reliable, clockwork \u2014 just went on time, delivered us on orbit perfectly, so we were very lucky. We didn\u2019t have to worry about that piece too much. We had a clean separation. Obviously, everybody got pretty excited.<\/p>\n
And then the real moment of truth. There are two key moments of truth \u2014 one is first contact. We were expecting to do a UHF radio pass with the ground station we have at headquarters, and it was not functioning. We were not getting data. And right after that, we had a ground station pass from Mexico, and like clockwork, the board just behind me lit up with all of the latest data from Haven Demo. More importantly, you then look at the data \u2014 okay, it\u2019s alive, it booted, it\u2019s communicating. And you have to make sure it\u2019s correct.<\/p>\n
I had an unfortunate chance before to have a satellite reveal that it was spinning at one rotation per second, so you need to look at the data carefully. And the data looked perfect. It was stable. The solar panel was deployed, it was communicating. Everything was great \u2014 so it was a big relief.<\/p>\n
We then, on the first pass, managed to download the video of the solar array deployment in 4K, which we\u2019ve shared \u2014 you can check our X account and LinkedIn. In my view, it\u2019s one of the best space videos ever captured, and we have a lot more of that. And then, when we were on the first pass, we were in eclipse \u2014 so that means there\u2019s no sun, it was night. It was actually right above the United States.<\/p>\n
One of the last things you don\u2019t know is \u2014 you\u2019re pointing where the sun will be, you\u2019re stable, you\u2019re not spinning, everything is functioning, you\u2019re communicating \u2014 but what you don\u2019t know is if you can get power positive. If you can\u2019t generate solar panel electricity, you won\u2019t get power positive, and you live for about 10 hours, which is about our battery. So we had to wait another hour or so for it to reach the sun. And that pass, we saw it being super healthy \u2014 power positive, getting to over 90%, steady at 95% of battery. So yeah, then we had a little party in the back.<\/p>\n
David Ariosto \u2013 The party doesn\u2019t come until everybody\u2019s collectively held their breath for at least a couple of hours, it seems. There always seem to be some gremlins within the apparatus, the software, or what have you.<\/p>\n
Max Haot \u2013 And superstition, right? Our industry is full of superstition. We had lamb \u2014 part of a tradition that some of our team members used to do at another company. And of course, you want to keep any beverage or champagne locked away and hidden until you\u2019re really confident. But we were able to get there.<\/p>\n
David Ariosto \u2013 I had a conversation with a CEO once that used to go out to the launch pad and have a quiet conversation with the launch vehicle \u2014 just like the nature of superstition or tradition.<\/p>\n
Max Haot \u2013 It\u2019s fun and games. Hopefully no one really believes it, but we love it.<\/p>\n
David Ariosto \u2013 You know, a little salt over the shoulder \u2014 that sort of thing. But I want to get into the purpose of the demo mission. So we can kind of start your answer there, but also \u2014 why? Where does this fit into the broader sort of commercial landscape? Because if you look at it, the ISS \u2014 the International Space Station \u2014 had its 25-year anniversary this year. It\u2019s going away, it\u2019s going to retire in less than five years now, 2030. The push for commercial space stations, particularly in terms of what Vast is doing, seems meant to avoid that gap once the retirement happens. Can you speak to that \u2014 the nature of competition, and also the purpose of the demo and what\u2019s next with Haven-1?<\/p>\n
Max Haot \u2013 The first thing to answer your question on purpose \u2014 I think our key differentiator at Vast is that we\u2019re strong believers in an iterative approach and incremental stepping stones. That\u2019s one of our core beliefs. The other is that we need to get to an operational product as quickly as we can. Paper design and PowerPoints are not substitutes for doing the real thing.<\/p>\n
We don\u2019t believe you need to have a perfect, multi-module, gigantic space station with the most advanced life support system on day one. You need stepping stones, because we\u2019ll have problems. We\u2019ll have systems to fix, things to upgrade, costs to lower, performance to improve.<\/p>\n
So back to Haven Demo \u2014 if you\u2019re building a space station company, the first thing you should do is put something in space. And it should be as soon as you can and test as much of your team, processes, facilities, and technology as possible.<\/p>\n
Haven Demo is a 500-kilogram satellite, the size of a big dining table. It has all the systems except the human ones \u2014 so no pressurized habitat or life support system \u2014 but everything else: propulsion, communications, triplicated computers with fault tolerance, flight software, ground software, control room, redundant power and networking for human-rated operations. All of that gives us confidence in our design before we integrate it into Haven-1, and demonstrates to NASA and the world that we\u2019ve earned that title.<\/p>\n
Right now, we\u2019re a spacecraft company. None of our competitors have put their space station technology in space yet. So this is our first stepping stone. Then you\u2019re asking about Haven-1 \u2014 that\u2019s the next one.<\/p>\n
David Ariosto \u2013 Like after that, next year \u2014 what, May?<\/p>\n
Max Haot \u2013 May is our target that we\u2019re executing against. Right now, we\u2019ve just finished building the qualification primary structure and completed our qualification campaign.<\/p>\n
David Ariosto \u2013 Explain to me what really Haven-1 is.<\/p>\n
Max Haot \u2013 Haven-1 is a single-module space station that will be on orbit for three years. We\u2019ll have four crewed missions of two weeks each. It integrates directly with the SpaceX Dragon spacecraft for docking and operations during those missions.<\/p>\n
David Ariosto \u2013 So you\u2019re kind of leaning a little bit on Dragon spacecraft in terms of life support systems or structure, right?<\/p>\n
Max Haot \u2013 Yeah, our approach is a minimum viable product space station. What we don\u2019t have to prove, we won\u2019t. But we still have a lot of life support systems \u2014 thermal control, air revitalization, pressure relief, fire suppression. The piece we rely on Dragon for is only the bathroom. They have one \u2014 why build another? We use Dragon to bring the crew and bring them back safely, and as the lifeboat. That\u2019s our approach \u2014 keep it simple, get to the next step, prove we can operate, generate revenue, and be the first to run a human-rated commercial space station.<\/p>\n
David Ariosto \u2013 When I think about the ISS and commercial space stations \u2014 the ISS has been incredibly safe, with zero fatalities over 25 years. Does it concern you \u2014 the marriage of business pressures and NASA\u2019s traditional DNA \u2014 given how dangerous space actually is? How do you approach safety and the culture of safety while balancing schedules and the bottom line?<\/p>\n
Max Haot \u2013 I\u2019m super lucky that there\u2019s an amazing precedent. Look at how NASA transitioned from cost-plus government-owned contracts to commercial fixed-price ones for transportation \u2014 from the Space Shuttle to the Dragon spacecraft. Unfortunately, the Shuttle program lost 14 crew. That was a cost-plus, government-run system. Dragon has since flown over 60 people to space with zero fatalities and zero close calls.<\/p>\n
People say that going commercial and fast means being less safe. The facts don\u2019t show that. Dragon is safer. And we rely on Dragon as our escape and emergency vehicle. SpaceX won\u2019t dock to Haven-1 unless it\u2019s safe by their standards. They have as much to lose as we do.<\/p>\n
We also have an incredible team \u2014 our CTO led avionics at SpaceX, our COO Chris Young helped write the winning NASA proposal and led Dragon mission operations. All that experience, combined with NASA\u2019s involvement through our contracts, gives us both engineering rigor and operational safety culture.<\/p>\n
David Ariosto \u2013 In terms of Haven-2 \u2014 that\u2019s the bigger construct. If I\u2019m not mistaken, that\u2019s a 12-module station expected to launch around 2028?<\/p>\n
Max Haot \u2013 Yeah, the architecture on our website shows a nine-module full evolution \u2014 bigger and more powerful than the ISS. It starts with three modules. With the new NASA directive, we\u2019re excited that the process might be simpler and faster under a Space Act Agreement.<\/p>\n
David Ariosto \u2013 The process of being set up within the fold of NASA seems to be progressing. How does that work while remaining commercial?<\/p>\n
Max Haot \u2013 It\u2019s important that NASA is not trying to replicate the ISS model. The ISS was incredible \u2014 25 years of continuous, safe human presence in orbit \u2014 but it\u2019s also the most expensive object ever built, more than $150 billion. We can and must do better on cost.<\/p>\n
David Ariosto \u2013 In the context of Haven-2, that\u2019s a craft \u2014 correct me if I\u2019m wrong \u2014 that\u2019s expected to be launched aboard Starship?<\/p>\n
Max Haot \u2013 No, we\u2019re starting with Falcon Heavy. The core module will rely on Starship later. We believe Starship will be successful and great for station builders, but we don\u2019t want to wait for it. We\u2019ll be ready when they\u2019re ready.<\/p>\n
David Ariosto \u2013 Once Starship is operational \u2014 and I say once because it feels inevitable \u2014 the nature of infrastructure and competition in space will probably expand exponentially. In terms of the demo we just saw, Haven-1, and the beginnings of Haven-2, how important is getting there early and being there first? You\u2019ve got Axiom, Sierra Space, and Blue Origin right there \u2014 how do you think about competition?<\/p>\n
Max Haot \u2013 No one has ever built a commercial space station. We\u2019re all aspiring to it. Until we actually do it, we\u2019re not truly space station companies. So it\u2019s existential for us to get our product operating. Every day we\u2019re not, we\u2019re not who we say we are.<\/p>\n
We\u2019re unique in being vertically integrated \u2014 we build our own primary structures here in the U.S. That makes it ten times cheaper and takes six months instead of four years. And it\u2019s made in America, which supports the \u201cAmerica First\u201d agenda while still enabling international partnerships later on.<\/p>\n
David Ariosto \u2013 You\u2019ve said in the past that Vast expects NASA to be an anchor customer but not the only one. How do you approach diversification \u2014 between government, international, and private clients?<\/p>\n
Max Haot \u2013 Procurement is a fair process, and \u201cMade in America\u201d is something everyone can rally behind. But ultimately, we have to be profitable. In the human spaceflight market, there are two kinds \u2014 today\u2019s market and the future one.<\/p>\n
The future market is in-space manufacturing, media, new materials, pharmaceuticals \u2014 but that\u2019s unproven. It\u2019ll take time. The current market is crewed missions for science and sovereign nations. NASA, JAXA, ESA, and others have already said they\u2019ll buy services from whoever replaces the ISS. There\u2019s also a growing market of new spacefaring nations and a small but steady group of private astronauts funding their own missions.<\/p>\n
We\u2019ve engineered our business model so we can be profitable within the current market \u2014 even with two operating stations in the U.S. And when the new markets come online, whether in two or ten years, we\u2019ll be ready \u2014 and still standing.<\/p>\n
David Ariosto \u2013 Diversification equals longevity, it seems. Max Haot, CEO of Vast, had a very big week \u2014 and it\u2019s such a pleasure to have you on the show and talk about it.<\/p>\n
Max Haot \u2013 Thank you so much for having me.<\/p>\n
Space Minds is a new audio and video podcast from SpaceNews that focuses on the inspiring leaders, technologies and exciting opportunities in space.<\/p>\n
The weekly podcast features compelling interviews with scientists, founders and experts who love to talk about space, covers the news that has enthusiasts daydreaming, and engages with listeners. Join David Ariosto, Mike Gruss and journalists from the SpaceNews team for new episodes every Thursday.<\/p>\n
Be the first to know when new episodes drop! Enter your email, and we\u2019ll make sure you get exclusive access to each episode as soon as it goes live!<\/p>\n
Note: By registering, you consent to receive communications from SpaceNews and our partners.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"In this episode of Space Minds, host David Ariosto speaks with Max Haot, CEO of Vast, the ambitious…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":248105,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[48],"tags":[147190,79,193,39231,143635,95874],"class_list":{"0":"post-276985","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-space","8":"tag-max-haot","9":"tag-science","10":"tag-space","11":"tag-space-minds-podcast","12":"tag-vast","13":"tag-vast-space"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/276985","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=276985"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/276985\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/248105"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=276985"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=276985"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=276985"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}