CLEVELAND, Ohio \u2014 The closer situation for the Guardians heading into 2026 was a hot topic on the latest Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast, with Paul Hoynes and Joe Noga dissecting manager Stephen Vogt\u2019s cryptic but telling comments about reliever Cade Smith.<\/p>\n<\/p>\n
Following Emmanuel Clase\u2019s mid-season administrative leave, Smith stepped up to become Cleveland\u2019s de facto closer, converting 16 of 22 save opportunities while posting a 2.93 ERA. His performance down the stretch has positioned him as the favorite to retain the role next season.<\/p>\n
\u201cCade logically has to be the favorite,\u201d Hoynes explained on the podcast. \u201cHe moved into the closer\u2019s role after Clase was put on paid leave on July 28th… But I think you\u2019ve got a closer that is just coming into his own in Cade Smith. And if it ain\u2019t broke, don\u2019t fix it.\u201d<\/p>\n
While Vogt stopped short of officially naming Smith his closer for 2025, his comments revealed tremendous confidence in the young reliever. Noga shared Vogt\u2019s powerful endorsement: \u201cVogt said. \u2018I trust Cade Smith to get three outs no matter where we ask him to do it.\u201d<\/p>\n
This vote of confidence suggests Smith has earned the manager\u2019s trust in high-leverage situations. However, the podcast hosts highlighted an interesting dilemma – Smith\u2019s elite versatility as a \u201cfireman\u201d reliever might actually be more valuable than limiting him to ninth-inning duties.<\/p>\n
\u201cHe\u2019s been the highest value reliever in the game as a guy who puts out fires. You never know when you\u2019re exactly going to see him,\u201d Noga noted, suggesting Smith\u2019s ability to adapt to different roles could be one of his greatest strengths.<\/p>\n
The most concerning issue raised on the podcast was the heavy workload shouldered by Cleveland\u2019s top relievers over the past two seasons. Hoynes expressed particular worry about the long-term sustainability of this usage pattern.<\/p>\n
\u201cThe one thing I worry about with him and Gaddis is they have been used so much the last two years. They have each made 162 appearances in the last two years, that includes the postseason,\u201d Hoynes cautioned. \u201cIt\u2019s really important for (the Guardians) to add another late-inning reliever, another veteran guy that can really take the load off these guys.\u201d<\/p>\n
Smith\u2019s strikeout numbers underscore his dominance – over 100 punchouts in roughly 70 innings in consecutive seasons. Yet this elite performance comes with the cost of heavy usage, which could influence the front office\u2019s offseason strategy.<\/p>\n
The podcast discussion highlighted how the Guardians\u2019 bullpen was at its most dominant in 2024 when they had their \u201cbig three\u201d of Smith, Hunter Gaddis, and Tim Herrin all clicking ahead of Clase. Rebuilding that formidable late-inning combination – whether with internal options or external acquisitions – appears to be a priority.<\/p>\n
While the market for elite relievers typically comes with a high price tag, the Guardians may need to invest either through free agency or trades to ensure Smith\u2019s effectiveness isn\u2019t compromised by overuse.<\/p>\n
To hear the complete breakdown of the Guardians\u2019 bullpen situation and more insights on potential closer options for 2025, check out the full episode of the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast with Joe Noga and Paul Hoynes.<\/p>\n
Podcast transcript<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Welcome back to the Cleveland Baseball Talk podcast. I\u2019m Joe Noga, joined by Paul Hoynes. Hoynsie, overnight we got word that a former Guardians infielder sets himself up for a pretty nice payday, agrees to sign back with the team that he finished the season with. Josh Naylor going to be in Seattle for a few more seasons. What did you learn about Naylor and what he could potentially be signing for there with the Mariners?<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Joe, you know, as soon as the Mariners, you know, great postseason run ended, a general manager came out and said number one priority is to resign Josh Naylor, keep him in Seattle. And it looks like they\u2019re going to do that. They\u2019re talking from reports about a five year deal somewhere between, you know, around, you know, 20 to 25 million a year. And it sounds like it\u2019s, it just, it might be down to will he pass the physical when, you know, when negotiations, negotiations reach that stage, it\u2019s all but duns, you know. Congratulations to Naylor. He was looking for this deal, Joe. I remember when he came to Cleveland in Seattle, he was asked with 2025 being his walk year, was he expecting to sign a multi year deal. And he said he was looking for a team that wanted him. And I guess he\u2019s found it, Joe.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Yeah, and, and I think, you know, we saw during the postseason, we saw during that, that stretch run in September, he was a really good fit. He was what they needed. He provided the, the, the sort of backup and support that guys like Julio Rodriguez and Cal Raleigh needed in the middle of that lineup. Protection there. Hit.295 last season with 20 home runs, 30 stolen bases, 81 runs scored, just 128 OPS. Uh, he posted a, uh, a 3.1 WAR according to baseball reference. So just an outstanding season. You know, maybe the, maybe the power numbers weren\u2019t, you know, exactly where they had been, you know, the year before with only 20 home runs. But Josh Naylor, a complete hitter, any way you look at it.<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, Joe, it was interesting. You know, he had the big year In Cleveland in 2024, what, 30 plus home runs, I believe 108 RBIs. But this year and he\u2019s, and his, but his average was low this year he goes, he hits 295, you know, and you know, it looks like he really concentrated on making more contact. He only had 30, 83 strikeouts, 48 walks and still was productive. Like you said, 20 homers, 92 RBIs. And he really, he solidified that Seattle offense and defense after they acquired him from Arizona Just before the deadline and had a great postseason. Had a great ALCS, hit 4, 17, 3 home runs, 5 RBIs and he was on fire when they needed him most.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: So the Guardians still have a, a Nailer of their own in, in Bo Nailer and, and he\u2019s shown, you know, potential. He\u2019s shown flashes at times, but never really the same. Just all around hitting. Sort of, you know, really sort of being that complete here that his older brother is. Is that something that Bo Naylor can get to that, that he can, you know, that maybe working with Josh eventually you sort of grow into that? Or is that. Are. Are. Are they. You know, you take him on a, a separate case by case basis here?<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: No, I think right now you gotta be on, on separate case by case basis. You know, he\u2019s, he\u2019s physically, his makeup is different than Josh. Josh is a big burly guy, heavy. Beau is more athletic looking. He doesn\u2019t have the has or we haven\u2019t seen the power that Josh has shown and he\u2019s playing a much more difficult position. He\u2019s catching. You know, Josh is playing first base, dhn. And it just seems like sometimes to me, at least from the outside looking in the responsibility of running the staff, you know, controlling the running game and then being a hitter as well, he\u2019s had a hard time, you know, handling that. I\u2019m, I\u2019m talking about Bo. I mean, we saw him break out a little bit toward the end of the season when he said he just cleared his mind and just tried to be a hitter. But this is a guy with a, with a lot of stuff going on in his head. It seems to me, Joe and I, you know, he\u2019s got to find a way to separate the two. Offense, Offense and defense. I think when he does, I think he\u2019ll be a much better hitter.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Yeah. One thing that the Guardians did do early on in the off season, they brought back Austin Hedges. So Bo Naylor knows that, you know, the demands are pretty much going to be the same. The expectations are pretty much going to be the same on him in the upcoming season with Austin Hedges pretty much playing the same role. So, you know, a good thing there. I just think, you know, if, if Beau is ever able to continue to grow as a, as a. The way Josh did from, from early on when, when he was win in CLEVELAND in, in 2020, 2021, there was, there was that potential that was there. We saw it and you know, we\u2019ve seen him over the last five years or so just Develop into a consistent with, with good power. It\u2019s just you need you know, Guardians fans just got to keep holding out hope that, that Bo can get there someday.<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, you know, they\u2019re both number one picks. You know Bo, I mean Josh obviously has been through, you know, he\u2019s been through some changes. You know, he what Miami was Miami\u2019s number one pick. He gets traded to San Diego, then he gets traded to Cleveland, then he gets traded to Arizona, then on to Seattle. So he\u2019s been through the mill. He\u2019s got a little, he\u2019s got know more experience than Bo. He\u2019s you know, been up and down and I think he\u2019s found a happy medium. Bo is still searching.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Yeah, either way it was a good weekend to be a nailer though I think with, with Josh being able to, to sign this deal and, and get get where he expected to be and where he wanted to be and, and it seems like Seattle\u2019s a a good fit for him there. So you know, we wish him the best. As far as the Guardians roster goes. Tuesday, the deadline to set their, their 40 man roster ahead of the the Rule 5 draft that takes place there. Any prospects in their system who\u2019ve I believe been in their, in their farm system for what, five years should be eligible to or international guys who have been for six or There is a different between high school picks and international and college guys. Five years for those guys and six years for high school guys. Is that.<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: So you know they\u2019re a different. There\u2019s a list and a number of guys who are eligible in, in Cleveland\u2019s farm system. On Helha now their, their prospect infield prospect who\u2019s in the top 100 according to MLB Pipeline. He seems to be a lock to be added to the 40 man roster which is at 37 right now. So there are spots open and available for them. Any, any other surprises or things to look for in terms of guys who could be added to the 40 man roster. And, and basically what that means is their, their clock gets started at that point. Once they\u2019re put on that 40 man roster, it won\u2019t be long before we see some of these guys in the big leagues.<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, Joe, you know, Hanao is a really kind of an interesting guy. He, you know with he played, he\u2019s playing winter ball right now. He\u2019s with two teams last season hit.263 with 263 with you know, with five homers, 42 RBIs. The year before he had 10 home runs. So you know he reached, he reached double Akron this past season. So he\u2019s definitely one of the guys that, that they, they would think about adding to the 40 man. Do you know who are some of the other names, Joe?<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: One that really stands out, A guy that finished the season with the, the Rubber Ducks and was playing in the Arizona Fall League, Wilfredo Antunez. He\u2019s a guy, hit 18 home runs last year.275 average, you know 856 OPS in, in a couple of games. I think he had two, two homer games in the Arizona Fall League before they, they put him on the sidelines with a sore shoulder. But this is a guy six one, he\u2019s a Venezuelan shortstop, 23 years old. You know, a guy getting a lot of buzz in terms of, you know, just, just the talk in, in that regard might be added to the roster. I could see that happening as a possibility. But again, you\u2019re loading up the, the 40 man with all of these young unproven middle infielders, infielders and right fielders. They\u2019ve got a lot of those guys on the, on the 40 man already.<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, Joe, there\u2019s another guy, Austin Peterson, a right handed pitcher that you know, they might consider putting on the 40 man. And, but the thing we\u2019ve seen with Cleveland is they\u2019re not afraid to add young players. What about three or four years ago they added 11 guys to the 40 man roster. You know, 10 or 11 guys in an unprecedented move. So you know, they will, you know, they lean heavily on their farm system. That\u2019s what they count on to, to be productive and for the major league ball club. And I would not be surprised at any move they made.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Yeah. So setting that 40 man roster that\u2019s going to come out Tuesday, we\u2019ll get a better idea and a list of those names at some point on, on Tuesday afternoon, talk about it on Wednesday and then I believe Friday is the non tender deadline as well.<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, non tender. You know, where they\u2019ve got to, you know, really set that 40 man roster for the Rule 5 draft. And you know there\u2019s, there\u2019s, there\u2019s several, you know, players that are kind of on the bubble, Joe. I mean it\u2019s, you know, it\u2019s kind of a situation where those players, if the guardians want you, you know, they kind of say okay, we can sign you to this one year deal or you may be taken you, we may non tender you and make you a free agent. So it\u2019s kind of a do or die time for some specific players that are that are on the 40 man roster because as you know, the players we were just talking about, they would, they, you know, the guardians want to clear roster space so they can put Those Rule, Rule 5 eligible players on the 40 man to protect them from other teams drafting them at the Rule 5 draft.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: And some of those guys include guys who are coming back from injuries, a guy like Sam Henches or Will Brennan. Those guys, you know, spent the, the majority of the season on the injured list and, and yet, you know they\u2019re going to be due raises at some point in their process in terms of either arbitration or you know, just their, their time, their service times. You know, that might be just a decision where they can, you know, get the same, same amount of production out of guys. They cut these guys loose and, and you know, you replace them with a younger guy on that 40 man roster.<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, that\u2019s, you know, that\u2019s the, that\u2019s the ticket right there. You know, Will Brennan just like you said, just got, you know, activated after you know, missing most of the season having undergone Tommy John surgery on his left elbow. So what do they do with him? Do they, does he sign a one for, do they want to sign him for one more year? Do they non tender him or, and make. And create a spot on the roster? So you know it\u2019s, it\u2019s kind of a, kind of a harrowing time for, for players kind of on the bubble right now.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Yeah. And then you know, you also have to take into account players who, productive than, you know, what was expected. And that would include a guy like Nolan Jones who, whose struggles were well documented throughout the year. And if you cut him loose, you, you save, you know, $2 million plus in salary that way as well. So. And there\u2019s a number of different factors that go into a decision like that. We\u2019ll have to keep an eye on the names that come out on that list of non tender players coming up on Friday as well. All right. Hoynsey, just over the weekend he published A post on cleveland.com talking about Kate Smith and talking about the closer situation. You know, obviously with the ongoing investigation and trial in Emmanuel, Class A and Luis Ortiz. The Guardian\u2019s closer situation. Not exactly clear. Not completely clear. Always sort of still maybe a fluid thing. And what do we learn from talking to Steven Vogt on Friday Just about the future of the closer\u2019s role and what Cade Smith needs to do to, to be the guy to be sort of locked into that position next year.<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Joe, I think, you know, I think Cade logically has to be the favorite. You know, he moved into the closers role after Class A was put on paid leave on July 28th. So, you know, he did. I thought he, you know, he, it took him some time to work himself into that, that position. But you know, by the, you know, by September I thought he was, he was, you know, he was really pitching well in that spot. So I think he\u2019s the guy. Joe. I think unless you, they make a, make another move or, you know, they rearrange the bullpen somehow, Stephen Vogt wasn\u2019t willing to, you know, come right out and name him as the closer because, you know, obviously he, he, you know, he didn\u2019t know what moves the club was going to make, you know, through until before opening days. So I guess that\u2019s, you know, there\u2019s still a possibility that they could add a bullpen arm, a guy they consider a closer. But I think you got a kind of a closer that is just coming into his own in Cade Smith. And if it ain\u2019t broke, don\u2019t fix it.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Right? Yeah, I, I, I, like, I, I think the Guardians would be comfortable starting the season with Kate Smith as their closer in name and in fact, I think they, they would just be comfortable doing that. The idea of them going out and getting a veteran and bringing him in to be the guy at the back end of the bullpen and thus freeing up Cade Smith to be in more of that role where he bounces around and, and, and jumps and, and where he\u2019s needed, you know, either if that means the sixth inning or if that means the eighth inning or whatever that means, I think they could be comfortable with that. But you\u2019ve got to find the right guy and you\u2019ve got to find somebody who\u2019s maybe a little more proven. If that\u2019s the case. If that\u2019s, that would be the only reason I think that you would, you know, move Cade Smith out of that role heading into the season because that\u2019s where he, you know, he\u2019s done some of his best work in that situation. He\u2019s, he\u2019s been the highest value reliever in the game of, as a guy who puts out fires and you know, you never know when you\u2019re exactly going to see him in the, in the second half of the back end of a game like that. It\u2019s sort of what makes him, you know, really effective. But we saw him make that adjustment in, you know, late in the season to, you know, knowing that you\u2019re the guy that gets, you know, the, the ninth inning and, and Preparing differently than, you know, just waiting for the phone to ring and having it be unexpected. I think Kate Smith can adopt, can adapt to that and find that, you know, sort of in him. It was interesting, you know, when we asked Stephen Vogt about it, his response was, you know, I\u2019m not going to say much now, but I\u2019ll leave you with this. I trust Cade Smith to get three outs no matter where we ask him to get it. So, you know, you know that Vote has full faith in Cade Smith and you know, whatever role he, he ends up, you know, pitching in, I think Vote\u2019s going to be comfortable with that for sure.<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Last year Smith went 8 and 5, 2.93 ERA, converted 16 saves out of 22 chances. And Joe, for the second time in a year, second time in as many years, he struck out more than 100 batters in, you know, around 70 innings. He struck out 104 batters last season in 73 and 2, 2 third innings. The year before. I think he set a rookie record for strikeouts by a, by a reliever. So this is a guy that, you know, he kind of, he gets it done. And the one thing I worry about Joe, with him and Hunter Gattis is they have been used so much the last two years. They have each pitched 160, made 162 appearances in the last two years, that includes the postseason. So I think it\u2019s really important for them to add, for the Guardians, for them to add another late inning reliever, you know, another veteran guy that can, that can really kind of take the load off these guys.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Yeah, they, they\u2019ve got guys, the veteran guys. Jake, you know, Jacob Junas is a free agent, but guys like Matt Festa who they went to on a regular basis and pitched him in a bunch of different roles and a bunch of different like leverage, non leverage situations or whatever. But you know, those, you know the, the, when they had the big three in front of class A, when they had Heron, Gattis and Smith all clicking and, and in whatever order in, in 2024, that\u2019s when the bullpen was at its most dominant. So you\u2019re right, they, they do need to add another reliable guy that they can get, you know, 60 plus appearances out of and pitch them in high leverage situations. Whether it\u2019s a righty or a lefty. I would not be surprised to see them active in the free agent market in terms of late inning relievers. But you know, we know what, what that, what that market costs right now. The price is astronomical and we\u2019ll see. You know, maybe it\u2019s a trade that brings in a, that particular arm or that particular role for the Guardians. All right, Hoynsy, let\u2019s jump over to some comments made last week. You\u2019re talking about the managerial hiring of Tony Vitello by San Francisco Giants. Vitello obviously going from Tennessee directly to the pros. You know, so making the jump from college to the major leagues as a manager, getting his first managerial experience in that way in the big leagues. Joe Madden, former World Series winner with the Cubs and a longtime manager with the Rays and the Angels, he had some, some interesting comments. You know, the way he framed his remarks was kind of not controversial but eye catching in terms of. He said it was kind of insulting that Tony Vitello was, you know, able to secure a man his first managerial job in professional baseball, going right from college to the majors like that. And then he said, but I wish him the best. You know, he came around and, you know, he softened it up. He said his argument was, you know, Madden started in the pro game in 1981 and it took him 20 plus years to get a managerial job and he had to, you know, ride the bus and work his way up as a coach, as a bench coach and, and then getting the, that first shot as a manager in Tampa and, and to look across and now to see the way that the game has changed and Vitello going right from Tennessee to the Giants. You know, I can understand maybe the, the feelings and the sentiment there for, for Madden, but to come out and say that it\u2019s insulting. I, you know, I gotta, I gotta wonder what his motivation is there.<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, Joe, I think he was like, you know, I think he was just speaking for all the, the old school baseball guys still out there, the former managers that, you know, worked their way up through the minors, maybe taking a shot at some front offices, maybe that, that he kind of butted heads with. But it was an interesting, it\u2019s always interesting to listen to Madden talk and you know, I couldn\u2019t, I couldn\u2019t disagree with the points he made. But, you know, obviously the game has changed. People are looking for different edges. They\u2019re, they\u2019re, you know, the information, they have so much information now that perhaps they think they can create their own manager by taking a guy that\u2019s enthusiastic, that has had success at whatever level he\u2019s had, and they can mold him into the manager they want. And it\u2019s, it\u2019s not necessary to start at a ball and double A, triple A and work your way up like so many guys have done. You know, the name that comes to mind is Mike Hargrove, you know, a great Cleveland manager, but, you know, he started as a, as a minor league coach after, you know, a distinguished playing career. So the game has changed. We saw Stephen Vogt, you know, go from a bullpen coach to a manager, and he\u2019s won two straight managers of the year. So it\u2019s a different era. And no one is, you know, what, what do they say if, if, if you invent a better mousetrap, the world will beat a path to your door. And I think everybody\u2019s trying to do that with the ma. The manager right now.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Yeah. And, and, and vote was real interesting when we talked to him and, and he was basically asked about, you know, the question along the same lines about Patello. And, you know, he talked about, you know, the college guys and guys that he\u2019s even added to his own staff in this past year, in this past month with Andy McKay and Tony Arnoric. These are guys with college coaching experience. And we talked about the idea of, you know, finishing off that last step of development for a young team like the Guardians at the major league level. That, that\u2019s sort of what you\u2019re, you\u2019re going for here as well, is you need guys that can maybe, you know, not those old hardened veteran coaches like you talk about, but like the Joe Madden school of guys, like guys who relate more to the younger players. And the game has gotten so much younger that the players are coming up now at, at 20, 21, 22, and it\u2019s. And a lot more is expected of them. You need coaches who are able to communicate and work with them and relate to them a little better. And that\u2019s sort of what you\u2019re seeing in Stephen Vogt. And now what you. What. I guess what the. What Buster Posey and the Giants expect out of Tony Vitello.<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Yeah, it was interesting. You know, they\u2019ve hired Bruce Bochy as a special assistant. The Giants have, you know, and Bochy has a long career with the Giants. What he won 2, 2 World Series with him, I believe. You know, Buster Posey caught for him was one of his better best players. And, you know, he was. I, I listened to him on, during an interview and he said the one thing Vitello is after going to get used to is losing 60 games a year. That doesn\u2019t happen in college. If it happens in college, you\u2019re, you\u2019re no longer the college coach. You know, it\u2019s a different game. You know, obviously Buster Posey, you know, picked Vitello for a reason. I\u2019m, you know, that\u2019s a good team out there with a, you know, passionate fan base. It\u2019s going to be interesting to see how this works. You know, I think he\u2019s going to have, you know, he\u2019s going to have a long, a long leash, so to speak. This is going to be, you know, anything\u2019s going to. There won\u2019t be a knee jerk reaction to the front office after they made a hire like this.<\/p>\n
Joe Noga: Yeah. And it\u2019ll answer the question, you know, does success in the college ranks, you know, and Vettel has been very successful there, does that success translate to, to the professional ranks and to the program? And, you know, there\u2019s a, there are a lot of differences and there\u2019s a lot of different emotions that he\u2019s going to have to navigate. So maybe he can give Stephen Vogt a call and, and ask him, because Vogt seems to have a pretty good handle on how to work with personalities and, you know, a young team, as you would imagine that the Giants are going to get a lot younger over the next couple of seasons here. All right, Hoynes, that\u2019s going to wrap up today\u2019s edition of the Cleveland Baseball Talk podcast. I will check back in with you tomorrow. And I have some news about the rule five guys and what we\u2019ve got going forward there.<\/p>\n
Paul Hoynes: Good deal.<\/p>\n
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