{"id":305081,"date":"2025-11-21T11:57:16","date_gmt":"2025-11-21T11:57:16","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/305081\/"},"modified":"2025-11-21T11:57:16","modified_gmt":"2025-11-21T11:57:16","slug":"heather-dubrow-on-gretchens-instagram-likes-katie-not-filming","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/305081\/","title":{"rendered":"Heather Dubrow on Gretchen’s Instagram Likes, Katie Not Filming"},"content":{"rendered":"

\n\tSPOILER ALERT:\u00a0This story sort of contains spoilers from Part 3 of the Season 19 reunion of \u201cThe Real Housewives of Orange County<\/a>,\u201d but it\u2019s not really that kind of article.<\/p>\n

\n\tHeather Dubrow<\/a> \u2014 a veteran cast member on \u201cThe Real Housewives of Orange County\u201d \u2014\u00a0had relatively smooth sailing during show\u2019s 19th season, when several of her fellow castmates were lost at sea. The season concluded Thursday night with Part 3 of its reunion episodes.<\/p>\n

\n\tThe season got off to a fraught, complicated start when Katie Ginella, in her sophomore season on the show, was caught in a number of contradictory statements; was exposed by Tamra Judge for having recorded Shannon Beador during the previous season without her permission and appeared to have had multiple points of contact with Bravo content creators, to whom she\u2019d allegedly gossiped. Under scrutiny, Ginella couldn\u2019t keep her stories straight, and after failing a lie detector test with flying colors, stopped filming with the cast entirely about halfway through the season until the recent reunion episodes.<\/p>\n

\n\tThat was the first mess. The second one was that Judge quit the show on camera a number of times, so upset was she about her close friend and \u201cTwo Ts in a Pod\u201d podcast co-host, Teddi Mellencamp, who was facing a dire diagnosis from Stage 4 melanoma. (In wonderful news, Mellencamp told Variety at BravoCon<\/a> on Nov. 14 that, because of immunotherapy, there is currently no cancer in her body<\/a>.)<\/p>\n

\n\tNeither of those two controversies directly affected Dubrow, even though she has been close with Judge for years, and had argued with Ginella during Season 18. She was involved, of course, but not in the direct line of fire in either of these conflagrations.<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\t\t\"\"<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\tHeather Dubrow at \u201cThe Real Housewives of Orange County\u201d Season 19 reunion<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tCourtesy of Trae Patton\/Bravo<\/p>\n

\n\tThe third flare-up, however, did directly affect Dubrow, who is the mother of three queer children and has made it her life\u2019s work to be a fundraiser, an ally and an advocate. In their last dinner of Season 19 filmed for the show\u2019s finale, during an otherwise hilarious trip to Amsterdam, Gina Kirschenheiter brought up the subject of castmate Gretchen Rossi\u2019s problematic Instagram likes. Judge had shown Kirschenheiter the posts in the weeks before, and Kirschenheiter wanted Rossi to explain them.<\/p>\n

\n\tRossi\u2019s alleged online behavior \u2014\u00a0Variety is saying \u201calleged,\u201d having not seen these posts first-hand \u2014\u00a0have been shared widely on the internet since at least April 2023, when a famous thread on Twitter<\/a> (yes, it was still Twitter then!) screenshotted right-wing Instagram posts that appear to have been liked by Rossi\u2019s account. The posts were anti-abortion, anti-vaccine, pro-election denial, pro-Trump, and perhaps most relevant to the Bravo audience, homophobic and transphobic. These posts were not a secret, and had a resurgence after Variety <\/a>broke the news in January of this year<\/a> that Rossi would return to \u201cRHOC\u201d as a friend of the cast.<\/p>\n

\n\tDubrow had fire in her eyes during the finale dinner, as she made it clear to Rossi that their friendship was on the line. Remembering it during an interview at BravoCon, Dubrow says she got \u201cchills\u201d at the mention of the dinner. She adds, with a shudder, \u201cLike, it was terrible!\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tIn Part 3 of the reunion episodes of \u201cThe Real Housewives of Orange County,\u201d Rossi does seek to explain herself (while also blaming Judge, her eternal enemy). Rossi says \u201cthere\u2019s no excuse for liking anything that has any sort of offensive sentiment,\u201d and denounces \u201canything that seems homophobic or transphobic or anything like that.\u201d She blames \u201cmindlessly\u201d scrolling at night, and not realizing what she was hitting like on in what looks to be a completely redpilled algorithm. Rossi says, and Judge confirms, that she\u2019s unfollowed those accounts, and almost fully apologizes, but does use \u201cif\u201d and \u201cmaybe.\u201d \u201cI gravely apologize if I liked something that was offensive or something like that,\u201d Rossi says. \u201cMaybe that\u2019s my mistake.\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tDubrow starred on \u201cRHOC\u201d from Seasons 7 through 11, and then returned for Season 16. During Season 19, as previously mentioned, she mostly stayed above the fray \u2014 literally above, as she watched the chaos from her penthouse apartment in Los Angeles, which she shares with her husband, Terry, and their children. <\/p>\n

From BravoCon, Dubrow shares how her Season 19 storyline about coming a place of peace with her late father came to be, her regrets about how the Katie Ginella mess unfolded, her dislike of having \u201cextraneous\u201d off-camera outside forces affecting the cast\u2019s relationships \u2014 and where she stands with Gretchen Rossi after that massive fight.\u00a0<\/p>\n

I feel like you had a good season. Does it feel that way to you?<\/p>\n

You know, it\u2019s funny because Andy said to me the first time I went on \u201cWatch What Happens Live\u201d this season, he said, \u201cI just love you this season \u2014 you\u2019re having such a great season.\u201d I was like, \u201cReally?\u201d I hadn\u2019t thought about it.<\/p>\n

\n\tBut when I did sit down to think about it, I thought every season since I came back, someone is lying about me, right? I came back, and it was Noella saying I\u2019d beaten up the crew, and then all the girls were coming after me for spreading Shannon\u2019s personal business \u2014 which I was exonerated from! And then we had Katie. Every season, it\u2019s been something. This year I felt like I could just be myself. Which I enjoyed!<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\t\t\"\"<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tCourtesy of Casey Durkin\/Bravo<\/p>\n

\t\tYou also had the very personal storyline about your dad. When was it that he died?\u00a0\t<\/p>\n

\n\tHe died like eight years ago. And the question is, why now?<\/p>\n

\t\tIt is!\u00a0\t<\/p>\n

\n\tI didn\u2019t intend like,\u00a0[deepens voice]\u00a0\u201c\u2026 and this season I\u2019m going to talk about \u2026\u201d \u2014 I really didn\u2019t. My mom is very sensitive to these things, and I never want to hurt her. So it\u2019s a hard line to walk. But it was so germane to what was going on with Tamra that it struck me. Because everyone\u2019s always like, \u201cYou\u2019re scared of her,\u201d or, \u201cWhy do you that?\u201d<\/p>\n

\n\tAnd I\u2019m like, I\u2019m used to complicated people; I\u2019ve grown up with complicated people. And I guess I\u2019m OK with it, because I know it, right? So I started thinking about it, and I thought, \u201cOh, this is like my dad.\u201d I remember talking to my sister about it, and I thought, \u201cShould I say something?\u201d I went, eh, yeah, I\u2019m gonna talk about it.<\/p>\n

\t\tAnd that\u2019s really how it came up? Because Tamra Judge was triggering you in that way?\t<\/p>\n

\n\tYes! Absolutely. And every time my dad got brought up, I thought, who cares? I don\u2019t need to heal anything. But I have to say, taking the ashes to Amsterdam, seeing my parents\u2019 apartment \u2014 by the way, how weird was it?<\/p>\n

\n\tI got so many messages that, yeah, the producers set that up. I\u2019m like, listen, I didn\u2019t put that paparazzi on the street of Beverly Hills. I had no idea where we were going \u2014\u00a0we were driving a circle! I didn\u2019t call the paparazzi in the first place.\u00a0And\u00a0we didn\u2019t know that this guy was going to be there. So it was so special. And when I walked in the apartment, and saw my mom\u2019s wallpaper was still on the wall, I went, \u201cThat is so cool.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n

\n\tI felt like it was like my dad opening the door for us. So when I actually spread the ashes, I really felt like a weight was lifted.<\/p>\n

\t\tIt was very moving.\u00a0\t<\/p>\n

\n\tThanks! I didn\u2019t\u00a0realize how important it would feel.<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\t\t\"\"<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tCourtesy of Griffin Nagel\/Bravo<\/p>\n

\t\tSwitching topics! The Kate Ginella stuff goes bad for her from Episode 1, when she digs herself into a terrible hole of seeming untruths and misleading statements. What was that like to watch as someone who is a veteran in this field?\t<\/p>\n

\n\tSo here\u2019s the thing. Obviously, when we\u2019re filming, you don\u2019t have all the information. You only know what you see and what you hear directly, or else it\u2019s hearsay and you\u2019re not really sure. So when the audience is watching it, they have the benefit of hearing more conversations and putting it together a little bit differently. For every 30 hours we film, 20 minutes makes it to the air, right? I think the algorithm. You can\u2019t show everything.<\/p>\n

\n\tThis season in particular, so many things happened off-camera with these extraneous people that I found a lot of it very confusing. I think the audience got confused. This season with me and Katie, I really didn\u2019t have any big issues. I tried to help her a bit in some group settings, but I couldn\u2019t stop \u2014 and I don\u2019t think anyone could have stopped \u2014 the tidal wave.<\/p>\n

\n\tBut I do want to say, no one ever called me and said, \u201cWill you not film with her anymore?\u201d No one ever said that.<\/p>\n

\t\tDo you understand exactly how it happened that she stopped filming midseason?\t<\/p>\n

\n\tNo. I don\u2019t.\u00a0That\u2019s above my pay grade. I can only speak for myself, but if any of us individually have the power to stop someone from filming \u2014 I\u2019ve never heard of our cast, or any cast, getting together and saying we won\u2019t do this. That didn\u2019t happen.<\/p>\n

\t\tAs someone who\u2019s been on the show for as long as you have been, before the Bravoverse was its own economy and there were all these content creators, or \u201cbloggers,\u201d\u00a0as Katie would say, were factored in. These things are happening off camera. What do you think about that?\u00a0\t<\/p>\n

\n\tI\u00a0think it\u2019s terrible. I think it\u2019s terrible!<\/p>\n

I started the show when my youngest child was nine months old, and he\u2019s turning 15. And there used to be a code on the show, a\u00a0very\u00a0clear code: no careers, no kids. It was an unspoken rule. Everyone abided by it, and it was appropriate. Because our show is about conflict and resolution\u00a0between our group.\u00a0Not about our children, not about our businesses. No one should be trying to hurt someone\u2019s way to earn a living, and certainly not about ancillary people that have nothing to do with our friend group.<\/p>\n

\n\tThe conflict and resolution is about\u00a0us\u00a0and our friendships. And we need to go back to that. And I think to your point, with these layers of bloggers, social media, recap people \u2014 all these different things, they add so many layers to the show. Like, the Deux Mois, and people trying to find out things and what\u2019s really happening. We need to go back to our roots.<\/p>\n

\t\tIt can go really right, like with \u201cSalt Lake City\u201d and the unmasking of Reality Von Tease, but usually fighting about things that happen on the internet is not good for the show.\t<\/p>\n

\n\tYou want to know why it worked, I think? I think because they didn\u2019t tell anyone. So it was a surprise for the audience, the reveal of what actually happened and who it was.<\/p>\n

\n\tI don\u2019t know any bloggers \u2014 I don\u2019t have those sort of relationships. But I think people talk and they give out information, and sometimes they don\u2019t mean to. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s all the time meant to be a bad thing. But it ruins the show.<\/p>\n

\n\tI love that all these people have come back, and it\u2019s nostalgic. And I love that Vicki\u2019s coming back<\/a> \u2014 I think it\u2019s great. But to me, we can\u2019t go backwards. We have to go forwards.\u00a0<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\t\t\"\"<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\tTamra Judge, Heather Dubrow<\/p>\n

\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tCourtesy of Griffin Nagel\/Bravo<\/p>\n

\t\tAnd you stuck by Tamra this season when she was digging her own grave. Can you talk about that a little bit?\t<\/p>\n

\n\tYeah, you know, it\u2019s a tough place to be when you see your friend making decisions and saying things that you don\u2019t agree with. Tamra was in a weird place this year, with everything that going on with Teddi and whatnot. She\u2019s my\u00a0friend. I\u2019m not going to desert her because I don\u2019t agree with her. But I just really tried to be very vocal with her at every turn, and she was not happy with me\u00a0for a lot of it.<\/p>\n

\n\tAnd I made it clear, look, we are friends, but that doesn\u2019t mean blind loyalty, and it doesn\u2019t mean I have to agree with everything that you\u2019re doing. And you have to appreciate that as a friend.<\/p>\n

\t\tWith Katie, was it a relief when she stopped filming with you all?\t<\/p>\n

\n\tNo! The whole thing is bizarre. Look, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. We work best when everyone is doing great and on fire and a great cast member. So it\u2019s\u00a0disappointing. And you know, she\u2019s a pretty girl, she\u2019s got a nice family, her backstory is interesting. I wish she had come in differently.<\/p>\n

\t\tAre you expecting there to be cast changes next season?\t<\/p>\n

\n\tIt wouldn\u2019t surprise me if there were cast changes.<\/p>\n

\n\tOK, let\u2019s talk about the Gretchen Instagram stuff. In the third episode of the reunion, you do seem to come to a kind of resolution with her. But tell me about that dinner on the last night in Amsterdam, and what that was like.\u00a0<\/p>\n

I mean, I have chills, right when you said that. Like, it was terrible! I\u2019ve known Gretchen as long as I\u2019ve known Tamra. And she\u2019s always been incredibly kind to me, to my family. I\u2019ve never heard her say anything against the LGBTQIA+ community. She has friends in the community.
She liked those posts, though.<\/p>\n

But she liked the posts. And maybe she didn\u2019t like all of them? But I said to her, and I don\u2019t know if this made it into the episode, like, \u201cTerry\u2019s for you page is cats. Mine is, I like to watch people wrap presents and things like that. But when you follow that many hate accounts, your algorithm has got to be showing you terrible things. And so how do you not notice that?\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n

\n\tAnd look, there were other posts that she liked outside of the queer community that I also don\u2019t agree with. But you know, everyone\u2019s entitled to their opinions on things, but when someone starts calling it a\u00a0lifestyle choice\u00a0being gay \u2014 it\u2019s tough!<\/p>\n

\n\tHere\u2019s how it seems from the outside: In her years off the show, Gretchen was positioning herself as a MAHA, MAGA mom influencer. And then she came back to a very LGBTQ+-friendly show and network, and had to row\u00a0all the way\u00a0back. Had you heard and seen those things about her in her years off the show?<\/p>\n

Yes. I had.<\/p>\n

\n\tWere you concerned about something like this happening on camera?<\/p>\n

\n\tNo. I didn\u2019t think it would come on the show.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Really?\u00a0<\/p>\n

\n\tNo, I didn\u2019t. This is just the reality of the world, and it\u2019s certainly a reality in a very conservative Orange County. But how lucky am I to be able to be a long-standing cast member and be able to show my really normal family, and start conversations in other people\u2019s families. I\u2019ve been able to use the platform for that. And it makes me so happy.<\/p>\n

\n\tIt\u2019s not my job to\u00a0fix\u00a0people. Because I can\u2019t. But what is my job as a mother and a human and someone with a platform is to be a great ally and a great parent. And react to what I\u2019m told. And I feel like I did a good job with that.<\/p>\n

\t\tWhere do you stand with Gretchen now?\t<\/p>\n

\n\tI mean, what I said to her at the reunion is exactly what I said to you: You\u2019ve always been kind to us. I can\u2019t imagine what your for you page looks like, but I hope you use this. Because not just me and my family, but your other friends in the community \u2014 this is very upsetting to all of us. So I hope that she takes this moment to really look at what she\u2019s liking and posting.<\/p>\n

\t\tWhen Tamra says, why is when I brought this up worse than the fact that she liked those posts \u2014 that\u2019s really the nut of it to me. Of course, Tamra had this ammo in her back pocket and was waiting to use it. That\u2019s the show, right?\t<\/p>\n

\n\tRight. But it shouldn\u2019t be.<\/p>\n

\n\tBut people are always shoring up information, and figuring out when to deploy it.<\/p>\n

\n\tWell, that\u2019s the whole thing. You don\u2019t want it to be a storyline. But if it\u2019s true, it needs to be addressed.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Here\u2019s what was OK with me. As hard as all that was, our show is about starting conversations, right? It\u2019s a watercooler show. Even though I don\u2019t like it, and I know she\u2019s so upset about what happened, and really feels like that is not who she is,\u00a0we\u2019re all talking about it.\u00a0<\/p>\n

\n\tAnd wouldn\u2019t it be great if we could just really open people\u2019s eyes and they could see that we\u2019re all humans, and it\u2019s biology? And let\u2019s give each other some grace.<\/p>\n

\n\tThis interview has been edited and condensed.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"SPOILER ALERT:\u00a0This story sort of contains spoilers from Part 3 of the Season 19 reunion of \u201cThe Real…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":305082,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[54],"tags":[147669,88,67879,602,92],"class_list":["post-305081","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-tv","tag-bravocon","tag-entertainment","tag-heather-dubrow","tag-the-real-housewives-of-orange-county","tag-tv"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/305081","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=305081"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/305081\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/305082"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=305081"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=305081"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=305081"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}