{"id":68912,"date":"2025-08-09T01:22:07","date_gmt":"2025-08-09T01:22:07","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/68912\/"},"modified":"2025-08-09T01:22:07","modified_gmt":"2025-08-09T01:22:07","slug":"how-paul-reubens-almost-stopped-hbo-documentary","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/68912\/","title":{"rendered":"How Paul Reubens Almost Stopped HBO Documentary"},"content":{"rendered":"

\u201cPee-wee as Himself<\/a>\u201d offers a refreshing contrast to celebrity documentaries shaped by estate-approved image control<\/a>. Director Matt Wolf<\/a> approached the film as a gay man profoundly influenced by \u201cPee-wee\u2019s Playhouse<\/a>\u201d and its message of non-conformity \u2014 and as someone eager to unpack the complexity of Paul Reubens<\/a>, a brilliant artist who re-entered the closet and disappeared behind his iconic persona to thrive in Hollywood.<\/p>\n

However, Wolf didn\u2019t expect the project to nearly break him. It changed him personally and professionally \u2014 but it also earned five Emmy nominations<\/a>, including Best Director. On this week\u2019s Filmmaker Toolkit Podcast<\/a>, he reflected on the toll of making a film about his idol.<\/p>\n

\"Will<\/a> \"Noah<\/a> <\/p>\n

Wolf\u2019s introduction to Reubens came through Josh and Benny Safdie, who would later come aboard as producers. <\/p>\n

\u201cPaul had met with other directors whom he either didn\u2019t connect with artistically or who were not open to his level of involvement,\u201d Wolf said. \u201cAnd I think I had a cocky attitude, \u2018I\u2019m good with complicated people.\u2019 And I am, but this was on a different level. The amount of control that Paul wanted to have, maybe I didn\u2019t fully understand, or take seriously. I figured once we got up and running, he would trust me to do what I do.\u201d<\/p>\n

Reubens and Wolf had long, personal conversations. Both were gay Jewish creatives with supportive families and uncompromising visions, and Wolf hoped their connection would build trust. He also believed Reubens appreciated that he wasn\u2019t focused on the 1991 arrest or the later, discredited child pornography charge \u2014 which Wolf saw as a homophobic witch hunt.<\/p>\n

\"\"Archival photo of Paul Reubens<\/a> from \u2018Pee-wee as Himself<\/a>\u2018<\/p>\n

To uncover the artist behind his Pee-wee alter-ego, Reubens\u2019 1,000-hour personal archive was key \u2014 but while Reubens indicted he was ready, he struggled to let go.<\/p>\n

\u201cI was dealing with somebody who had enormous issues with control,\u201d said Wolf. \u201cI think he would say that about himself at the time. But so do a lot of artists. The difference with Paul was that he had lost control of his personal narrative in the media.\u201d<\/p>\n

The public first saw the man behind Pee-wee in what Reubens called his \u201cCharlie Manson\u201d mug shot \u2014 goatee, long hair, vacant stare \u2013 when he was arrested at a Sarasota, Florida porn theater in 1991. It was an image that would change his life forever. Privately, he let Wolf in, but getting him on camera took time. When he finally agreed, his need for control was obvious.<\/p>\n

\u201cThere was a real power struggle that had been brewing and that was playing out on camera,\u201d said Wolf. \u201cI pretty quickly realized that this is part of who this person is, and he\u2019s putting it on full display in front of the camera.\u201d<\/p>\n

Reubens was especially complex: an openly gay CalArts artist who re-entered the closet, gave up love, and found fame and artistic independence as a character preaching non-conformity. It was a story of someone who exerted the ultimate control over his image, and then experienced its complete loss at the hands of the tabloids.<\/p>\n

Trying to unravel that on-camera led to real breakthroughs, but the camera also captured how quickly Reubens could be triggered to mistrust the documentary process without being the one directing it. Wolf had no interest in being a character in his own film, but the subject-director dichotomy that was playing out on camera would become key to understanding Reubens\u2019 complexities.<\/p>\n

\"\"Paul Reubens in Chairy from \u2018Pee-wee\u2019s Playhouse\u2019<\/p>\n

Wolf would make concessions, including letting the Pee-wee creator, who once obsessed about his \u201cPlayhouse\u201d sets, guide the documentary\u2019s production design for interviews.<\/p>\n

\u201cI was also transparent that there is no script,\u201d he said. \u201cI would be constructing that story in post-production. That was informative and alarming to Paul because he wanted to be in the edit room every day, and there\u2019s no way I could do what I do in that manner.\u201d<\/p>\n

On the podcast, Wolf described a major fight over the director maintaining final cut. \u201cI remember walking with him after we had this fight, and he [said], \u2018We\u2019re scared of the same thing. You want to control the film you\u2019re making and I want control over my life.\u2018\u201d<\/p>\n

Wolf had always planned to divide his interviews with Reubens into three chronological blocks, separated by editing breaks. The second block covered Reubens\u2019 life up through the end of \u201cPee-wee\u2019s Playhouse.\u201d It was immediately after wrapping his children\u2019s show in 1991 that Reubens visited his parents in Florida, during which his infamous arrest took place. Both director and subject were well aware that the impact of that event would be inescapable in the third and final block of interviews, which never took place. After the second block of interviews was completed, Wolf and editor Damian Rodriguez cut the first 45 minutes of the documentary and screened it for Reubens, hoping to finalize the deal.<\/p>\n

\u201cWe had a basic agreement, but negotiating an involved and long-form contract with the subject before you begin can be a toxic process. It can really freak people out,\u201d Wolf said. \u201cIt is a dance of making people feel comfortable, but also protecting yourself while making a film. And we rode that line hard. So we were still in the process of closing a deal with Paul as we were filming. And it had been established that I would have final cut and he would have meaningful consultation, but the nitty gritty of that was not yet resolved.\u201d<\/p>\n

Reubens left the screening multiple times, struggling to gather his thoughts. Then, he disappeared. He stopped responding to Wolf, refused to sign the agreement, and wouldn\u2019t book the final interviews. HBO and the production assumed the film was dead. The post team was laid off, and all work ceased.<\/p>\n

\u201cIt was horrible. It was horrible for him too, I\u2019m sure,\u201d said Wolf. \u201cIt was just so devastating, mostly because everybody knew how good the material was and what a good film we had on our hands\u2026 I kept telling him this film would reintroduce him to a modern audience, would let him set the record straight after years of malicious and unfair portrayals\u2026 It just felt so devastating that people might not see it. And so dumb. Like, \u2019Why can\u2019t we find a path and make this work? Do not self-sabotage. This film is going to reappraise your legacy.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n

At the time, Wolf had just turned 40. Having his biggest and most expensive project fall apart this late in the process was a threat to his career. His personal life suffered; fights with his partner of two decades became frequent.<\/p>\n

\u201cIt changed me as a human,\u201d he said. \u201cI will never make a film the same way again. And I worry in some ways that somehow I\u2019ll believe that great struggle leads to the best art because I don\u2019t think that has to be true.\u201d<\/p>\n

Then, after almost a year of no communication with Wolf, Reubens shocked everyone by signing the deal. His attorneys asked how quickly the third interview block could begin.<\/p>\n

\"\"\u2018Pee-wee as Himself\u2019<\/p>\n

\u201cI had a conversation with [Reubens] and his voice sounded weird,\u201d said Wolf, describing their first \u2014 and last \u2014 conversation in a year. \u201cHe said some intense things that to me indicated that he may be contemplating his mortality, that maybe [he] had a health diagnosis\u2026 he wasn\u2019t specific, but he did say, \u2018I\u2019m not going be able to be as involved as I had hoped, and I\u2019m sorry that I\u2019ve been so emotional the past few years.\u2019 And I said, \u2018I\u2019m sorry if I did things that upset you.\u2019 And he said, \u2018You didn\u2019t do anything wrong,\u2019 and then, \u2019I trust you.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n

Just as he prepared to fly to LA and resume filming, the next shock came.<\/p>\n

\u201cI had no knowledge that he had ever had health-related issues, and I get a text from my executive at HBO with a screenshot from Instagram saying that Paul\u2019s dead,\u201d said Wolf. \u201cAnd then I got a call from Paul\u2019s publicist and longtime friend Kelly Bush Novak. She encouraged Paul to record a final message for the documentary. She learned that he had not had an opportunity to address his arrests, and it was important for him to address that \u2014 and he did, the day before he died. Kelly recorded it.\u201d<\/p>\n

After hearing the final audio, Wolf began putting the pieces together. \u201cI knew immediately what happened here was part of the story of this film,\u201d he said. \u201cAnd I went to work the next day.\u201d<\/p>\n

Seven months after the Emmy-nominated\u00a0\u201cPee-wee as Himself\u201d\u00a0premiered at Sundance, Wolf said he would never make another documentary the same way again. He also couldn\u2019t imagine having made\u00a0this\u00a0one any other way.<\/p>\n

\u201cI\u2019m trying to fully absorb the intensity to which people are reacting to this film emotionally. I knew I felt that way [making it],\u201d said Wolf. \u201cBut I also feel that there\u2019s nothing to be done differently. He was an intense person. We had an intense relationship. What happened to him during his lifetime was intense. The way he died was intense. It\u2019s intensity after intensity, and brilliance and genius on full display \u2014 and so my job was to make that come across so that you could experience it.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cPee-wee as Himself\u201d is nominated for Outstanding Documentary or Nonfiction Special, and Outstanding Directing, Picture Editing, Sound Editing, and Sound Mixing for a Documentary\/Nonfiction Program. <\/p>\n

To hear Matt Wolf<\/a>\u2018s full interview, subscribe to the Filmmaker Toolkit podcast<\/a> on\u00a0Apple<\/a>,\u00a0Spotify<\/a>, or your favorite podcast platform. To watch the full interview, subscribe to IndieWire\u2019s YouTube page<\/a>. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"\u201cPee-wee as Himself\u201d offers a refreshing contrast to celebrity documentaries shaped by estate-approved image control. Director Matt Wolf…\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":68913,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[52],"tags":[88,23575,50087,206,20604,50088,20605,92],"class_list":{"0":"post-68912","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-movies","8":"tag-entertainment","9":"tag-filmmaker-toolkit-podcast","10":"tag-matt-wolf","11":"tag-movies","12":"tag-paul-reubens","13":"tag-pee-wee-as-himself","14":"tag-pee-wee-herman","15":"tag-tv"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/68912","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=68912"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/68912\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/68913"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=68912"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=68912"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.newsbeep.com\/us\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=68912"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}